House or apartment?

[soap94]

Hi there I guess topic's name speaks for itself. Let me know what's your preference. I believe majority of us would prefer house due to obvious reasons but I want to hear cons and pros from you guys. Let's discuss it

[CWSmith]

I lived in 3 apartments before we got our first house. I remember hearing the neighbors playing bad music, having sex, fighting, etc. I couldn't wait to get out of those places!

[Mrleft88]

Rent or own?
If you rent, you're paying someone else's mortgage, and at the end of the day, you have nothing. If you own, you pay the mortgage, but you have built equity, and credit.
Plus you don't have to listen to your upstairs neighbor when he's prepping for his colonoscopy.

[Hugh MacD]

I'm in the "House" camp. The rent/own debate has two sides depending on the local laws. Our daughter is renting. While she's not building equity, she's also not dealing with insurance, maintenance and repairs as the real estate managers have to handle all of that (Australia). Here I'm firmly in the "buy" side. What's Poland like?

[elf]

If you can afford to not pay someone else's mortgage, by all means do so, as long as the timing and availability of decent properties work out. I don't think I'd opt to buy if I knew I was moving on within a year or so, however.

Owning a house is an adventure in the acquisition of useful and some hopefully not so damn useful life skills. However, if your goal in life is to play computer games or skateboard, you probably are better off not owning.

[wizbang 13]

I eat vegetarians .

[heimlaga]

A cheap small house on a large enough piece of land suits me best. Because it provides freedom and opportunities. However I can understand that some people prefere an apartment in town because that saves time which in turn also provides a sort of freedom and some sort of opportunities which we busy country dwellers don't have. An expensive high status house on an expensive yet tiny suburban plot with strict regulations for what you are allowed to do is in my books a very bad alternative having the disadvantages of both. The house takes time and makes you reliant on a car like a house in the country yet you are hemmed in by regulations and neighbours and harnessed by a large loan just like you are in a town flat. That sort of living is not for humans.

[WI-Tom]

I'm living in a tiny apartment in Poland, after 21 years in a house in a small town.

The apartment is good for urban life, very simple and convenient--particularly since we haven't yet made any long-term commitment to stay in Europe. The only reason the lack of space is an issue at all is that it would be very hard to invite friends to dinner. Even a friend. It's a tiny space. (That said, we managed to host a nephew for a couple of weeks on the couch in our living room).

On the other hand, it's much simpler to arrange a workshop or store a boat when you own a house. Urban living is much more communal. There are spaces to spend time outside, but they are all shared spaces. It's very different.

I do think that, long term, the idea of building equity and selling a house at a profit isn't going to be as reliable as it has been in the past, which might weigh in favor of an apartment.

Tom

[skuthorp]

I'm with Heimalga, but here in Aus. today buying any sort of house has gotten out of most young peoples reach. Much of this is the result of scarcity, but over a million houses in the country are empty. Some are holiday houses by by no means a majority. It's land, and house, banking, often by OS buyers as an investment/bolthole. And much of it bought by dodgy laundered money, or as a resut of tax breaks for 'investors', a lurk that both majors, and the voters have a hand in. As a result rental properties are also scarce and expensive.
I do not know how this will work out, but there will have to be a solution.

[MushCreek]

Other than very short-term, I've never lived in an apartment or rented. I like a house, on my own land, no matter how modest. I've carried that as far as I can, to the point that we live in a small house (by today's American standards) on 9 acres of rural land. I don't like living where if your neighbor farts, you can tell what they had for dinner.

[skuthorp]

Advice her is not to buy an apartment. especially a high rise one that's less the 20 years old. Shoddy design, building practices and workmanship, and the use of short term shell companies as the vehicle so there is no one to sue.

[Garret]

A house for privacy. Apartments are too noisy & restrictive for me plus you are dependent on the landlord fixing things in a timely manner. I also find that rural (not suburban) living promotes closer relationships with neighbors as we are all more interdependent because of fewer services.

As mentioned above, housing is in short supply & largely unaffordable for many starting out in the US. The days of finding a cheap piece of land & building your own are gone - due to land no longer being cheap & regulations on what & how you build. So, many are forced to live in places & ways they might not prefer.

Is the situation similar in Poland?

[P.I. Stazzer-Newt]

Why is housing in short supply?

There's no magic in building houses - we humans have been doing that for at least seven thousand years - why a shortage, and why now?

ANd why is thie shortage tolerated?

[pkrone]

Definitely a house. That's on the end of a cul-de-sac. And backs up to water. And has empty lots on each side of it that I own. Yeah, kinda picky. But I like my space and empty lots make great neighbors.

[Garret]

Why is housing in short supply?

There's no magic in building houses - we humans have been doing that for at least seven thousand years - why a shortage, and why now?

And why is the shortage tolerated?

The shortage has been around for many years, but has become more acute - as problems left unsolved usually do.

It's a huge topic & more complex than it should be. Basically, affordable housing is not being built at the level needed - mostly because builders can make more money on higher end houses. Then there are zoning restrictions, land affordability, & since the pandemic, a shortage of carpenters, electricians, and plumbers + increased material costs. As a small example, around here, if you wanted a house built or even more, remodeling done, you'll wait a minimum of 6 months, but more like a year & when you do get it done it will cost significantly more than it would've pre-pandemic. Speaking locally, 10 years ago you could get a house built (not counting land, septic, & utilities) for roughly $100/square foot. Now it's over $200.

[Norman Bernstein]

It would be interesting to know what the real estate market in Poland is like… what houses cost, what sort of mortgage rates are charged, and how long of a term the mortgage would be. Here in the US, a reasonably nice upper middle class house could go for anywhere from $300,000 to $800,000, and the most common terms would be 30 years at around 5%, although it varies widely.

[WI-Tom]

Interesting. The U.S. bias toward individualist separate "I gots all my own stuff and my own space" living comes through very clearly on this thread.

I don't find living in an apartment building nearly as bad as some here seem to think it would be as far as noisy neighbors, etc. Student apartments might up your chances of having bad neighbors, but our building seems to be tenanted by rational adults who don't bother each other. It's also an old building--maybe the walls are thicker, and less noisy because of it.

Tom

[WI-Tom]

It would be interesting to know what the real estate market in Poland is like… what houses cost, what sort of mortgage rates are charged, and how long of a term the mortgage would be. Here in the US, a reasonably nice upper middle class house could go for anywhere from $300,000 to $800,000, and the most common terms would be 30 years at around 5%, although it varies widely.

I think you could drop the low end around of your range substantially in the Midwest in many places--a decent home for $150,000 is realistic. It's very location dependent.

Tom

[Paul Pless]

I eat vegetarians .

my 'landlord' frowns on dreadlocks

[L.W. Baxter]

if i ran the zoo, i could fix the “housing shortage” in the u.s. with a few strokes of a pen.

no owning more than two residential properties without full time tenants.

no “house flipping”, you effing leeches.

[bluedog225]

I wonder if we are chatting with bots?

[Garret]

if i ran the zoo, i could fix the “housing shortage” in the u.s. with a few strokes of a pen.

no owning more than two residential properties without full time tenants.

no “house flipping”, you effing leeches.

AirBnB has removed a lot of housing stock around here, as the owners can make more $ with that than a normal rent.

House flipping? Is there something wrong with buying a house, fixing it up & selling it? In VT, you pay an extra tax if you don't keep it for 2 years before selling.

[Todd D]

I have lived in apartments and houses. I very much prefer a house, particularly one where I can't see or hear the neighbors.

[L.W. Baxter]

AirBnB has removed a lot of housing stock around here, as the owners can make more $ with that than a normal rent.

House flipping? Is there something wrong with buying a house, fixing it up & selling it? In VT, you pay an extra tax if you don't keep it for 2 years before selling.

i dunno. show me a flipper who genuinely "fixes" anything, and i will show you a flipper not making any money. there is good reason why flipped properties are famous for cosmetic cover ups of actual issues. buyer beware. same is true of under the radar car dealers on craigslist. fixing head gasket leaks with silicon and selling junk cars to the vulnerable and gullible. effing leeches.

flippers don't add value. they benefit from increasing prices in a hot market. their very existence drives the prices up, as they compete with one another for properties for their portfolios. the proof is the paucity of house flippers in down markets. flipping is just real estate churning with a coat of paint.

housing shortages are like labor shortages. it is a matter of a few percentage points. flippers extend the time during which houses are not occupied. there's your "shortage".

[rbgarr]

It can depend on your time of life, where, how well apartments are managed, maintained, etc. My daughter lived in NYC for fifteen years in her 20s-30s, married and then 'got a house' in the NC mountains (it started as open land and they built the house over many years). In the city she was close to well-paying work, a variety of foods, lots of friends, entertainment, liked her neighbors, shared a rooftop garden, lots of free stuff to do around 'the city that never sleeps', didn't need a car and so on. Then Covid hit and the city, its advantages and attractions changed. She moved to NC, continued remote work for her company and is just as happy now enjoying life in the mountains with gardens, fruit trees, open spaces, views, friends, helpful neighbors, animals, exploring, volunteering, etc.

[Breakaway]

I was raised in an apartment; owned houses for many years. The house and land is an anchor, in that there is always something to take care of. Those things come at the cost of time and/ or money. I used to really enjoy home maintenance, whether it was a room re-do or simply cutting the lawn. Now, at 60, I don't hate those things, but they have become more like chores that need doing before I can get to what I really want to do.

On the other hand, I can store my boat on my own property for the winter, and my house comes with a deeded dock, which costs way less than any marina around here. I can crank my guitar to 11 and nobody will care. I have room for my kids to have their friends sleep over, or stay for a week.

Still, there's a lot to be said, to being able to just walk out the door in the AM and focus on just work or play and leave fertilizer, painting and appliance replacement, et al, to someone else.

Kevin

[dutchpp]

In the Netherlands we live close together, it's very densely populated so unfortunately it's almost impossible to own a lot of land around your house.
I've lived in apartments and houses, I prefer the houses.
A recent Dutch survey ( which I can't find right now) showed that most elderly people prefer to move to an apartment, but that a small percentage ( I thought it was 10-20%) regrets moving to an apartment and moves back to a house

[Garret]

i dunno. show me a flipper who genuinely "fixes" anything, and i will show you a flipper not making any money. there is good reason why flipped properties are famous for cosmetic cover ups of actual issues. buyer beware. same is true of under the radar car dealers on craigslist. fixing head gasket leaks with silicon and selling junk cars to the vulnerable and gullible. effing leeches.

flippers don't add value. they benefit from increasing prices in a hot market. their very existence drives the prices up, as they compete with one another for properties for their portfolios. the proof is the paucity of house flippers in down markets. flipping is just real estate churning with a coat of paint.

housing shortages are like labor shortages. it is a matter of a few percentage points. flippers extend the time during which houses are not occupied. there's your "shortage".

I get your point. Zillow is a major player in the "hang onto it until it appreciates" game - except they do nothing & let the house/building deteriorate. I won't use their site & try to stop others from doing so because of this.

However, the shortage is well beyond flippers holding onto houses. Of course they play a role, but the US needs lots more housing - particularly affordable.

[Ted Hoppe]

Nice Apartment in a desirable location close to all the great services and near major mass transit solutions. You can always rent a place for your boat too.

Taking care of a house sucks and doing yard unless it is a hobby too.

[L.W. Baxter]

I get your point. Zillow is a major player in the "hang onto it until it appreciates" game - except they do nothing & let the house/building deteriorate. I won't use their site & try to stop others from doing so because of this.

However, the shortage is well beyond flippers holding onto houses. Of course they play a role, but the US needs lots more housing - particularly affordable.

well, "affordable housing" is what many flipper homes would be if they weren't flipped. they become less affordable because money is going into the flipper's pockets. and the problems remain, under the paint, the filler, the covering boards.

(i make a distinction between the hustle of flipping, characterized by purely cosmetic covering and staging, the profits being generated by leveraging borrowed money and increasing real estate prices, and the much more rare person of skill who repairs and remodels with integrity, creating actual value and therefore being paid for their labor. such does exist, i know.)

as for the insistence that houses being held in investors portfolios is not enough to generate a perpetual shortage in hot housing markets, i think we need actual statistics for either of us to prove our theory. i don't have the numbers--they would be local anyway, not national, right?--only my understanding of how few homes need to come free to go from a seller's to a buyer's market. it can happen overnight when recession hits.

the shortage is not real, imo. it is manufactured by money grubbers grubbing more money. it is to the advantage of builders and grubbers alike that the narrative be a shortage of physical homes. i don't buy it. i've seen the effects with my own eyes.

[The Q]

I've live in a flat (apartment), semi detached house, and a detached house.

Never again will I live in a property with walls adjoining other properties.
I now live in the countryside, as few neighbours as possible..

What great services? Everything can be delivered, mass transit? Always inconvenient, full of people you don't want to be with...

[L.W. Baxter]

to elaborate my labor shortage analogy:

the difference between a labor shortage and a labor surplus is only a couple percentage points. in other words, if just two out of every hundred people currently not working decides to enter the workforce today, the shortage evaporates, and job market dynamics change immediately.

take two out of every hundred housing units currently being held unoccupied by investors and force them back into a local market today (adding to the proportion that would have been listed naturally), the housing shortage likewise becomes a surplus. housing market dynamics change, overnight.

[rgthom]

An expensive high status house on an expensive yet tiny suburban plot with strict regulations for what you are allowed to do is in my books a very bad alternative having the disadvantages of both. The house takes time and makes you reliant on a car like a house in the country yet you are hemmed in by regulations and neighbours and harnessed by a large loan just like you are in a town flat. That sort of living is not for humans.

We live in a house like that, in a gated community on a golf course at the edge of town. It was my wife’s choice, definitely not mine, but after 20 years I find there are a lot of things I like here. The HOA owns land in and surrounding the homes, yards are small but there is protected open space. I can ride a bike to town, and an e-bike to work. We know our neighbors and look out for each other. There is a community club with olympic pool where I swim. The downside is we have to paint our house an approved color, I can live with that.

[Garret]

well, "affordable housing" is what many flipper homes would be if they weren't flipped. they become less affordable because money is going into the flipper's pockets. and the problems remain, under the paint, the filler, the covering boards.

(i make a distinction between the hustle of flipping, characterized by purely cosmetic covering and staging, the profits being generated by leveraging borrowed money and increasing real estate prices, and the much more rare person of skill who repairs and remodels with integrity, creating actual value and therefore being paid for their labor. such does exist, i know.)

as for the insistence that houses being held in investors portfolios is not enough to generate a perpetual shortage in hot housing markets, i think we need actual statistics for either of us to prove our theory. i don't have the numbers--they would be local anyway, not national, right?--only my understanding of how few homes need to come free to go from a seller's to a buyer's market. it can happen overnight when recession hits.

the shortage is not real, imo. it is manufactured by money grubbers grubbing more money. it is to the advantage of builders and grubbers alike that the narrative be a shortage of physical homes. i don't buy it. i've seen the effects with my own eyes.

I live with a Realtor. As an example of the shortage, she has a client who has been approved for $190K. In the last month, she found one house below 180K. It's 900 sq ft on 1/5 acre, needs a well & septic - as well as new siding & probably a roof. It was $150K & went under deposit in 5 days.

In our county, there are few vacant homes, except some (maybe 20?) held by banks & HUD. It'd be great if they came on the market, but the lenders are way underwater on 'em & have zero interest in fixing them to get a better price.

A house in Burlington I lived in during the late 90's had a studio apartment that rented for $450/month. That same apartment was listed for $1800/month last summer & the owner got over 100 calls.

I'm sure other areas have more vacant houses, but they're few & far between here. Probably less than 0.1% of total houses - maybe lower than that.

[L.W. Baxter]

point taken, garret. i do understand, as i indicated, that markets are local.

i feel confident that our local market is being badly distorted by people of means investing in residential real estate. the wealth in our area is the enemy of affordable housing not just in driving up purchase price, but by developing an entire category of wealth building by house hoarding.