How did Corned Beef (and cabbage) become an Irish Tradition?

[Chip-skiff]

Chicken and beef have always been too valuable as sources of eggs and milk/butter/cheese to slaughter for eating.

In the west of Ireland, the coast and the islands, the mainstays were potatoes, fish (often cod) and milk (butter, cheese). Lazy beds for potatoes, fertilised with seaweed and dung, were set in sandy soil on slopes to drain the incessant rainfall.

The tenant farmers who kept sheep would get the old clapped-out ewes, fatty mutton, and sometimes the second year bucks (hogget) that were of no use except as meat. Any older and they got stringy and rank. When a cow broke a leg or prolapsed, there was feasting and rejoicing among the tenants, a chance at the master's beef.

[Peerie Maa]

OK, I'll ask.

How do you corn a beet?

[Chip-skiff]

OK, I'll ask.

How do you corn a beet?

Can't be done, mate. You can pickle it, in vinegar, spices, sugar, etc.

Corned beef is cured (allowed to rest) in salt and a spice mix for several days before being rinsed and stewed or steamed (corned beef) or peppered and smoked (pastrami).

Why they refer to it as "corned," I have not the slightest notion. You might pursue it.

[Peerie Maa]

Can't be done, mate. You can pickle it, in vinegar, spices, sugar, etc.

Corned beef is cured (allowed to rest) in salt and a spice mix for several days before being rinsed and stewed or steamed (corned beef) or peppered and smoked (pastrami).

Why they refer to it as "corned," I have not the slightest notion. You might pursue it.

Because the salt crystals used in the pickle are corn kernel sized.

It is not something that we make here in the UK, it comes in tins.

[Nicholas Carey]

OK, I'll ask.

How do you corn a beet?

Salt-fermentation (malolactic) fermentation. Beets, you pack in brine and let ferment. About a 2-3% solution by weight.

Can't be done, mate. You can pickle it, in vinegar, spices, sugar, etc.

Corned beef is cured (allowed to rest) in salt and a spice mix for several days before being rinsed and stewed or steamed (corned beef) or peppered and smoked (pastrami).

Why they refer to it as "corned," I have not the slightest notion. You might pursue it.

It's corned because the salt used was coarse salt, the size of a grain of corn (for which read "barley" or "wheat").

See also corned gunpowder.

Corning meat is likewise a form of malolactic fermentation(or can be).

I use Michael Ruhlman's procedure for corning meat. Highly recommended:

https://ruhlman.com/cure-corned-beef/

Home-Cured Corned Beef

Servings: Yield: 8 to 10 servings

1-1/2 cups kosher salt*
1/2 cup sugar
4 teaspoons pink salt (sodium nitrite), optional
3 cloves garlic, minced
4 tablespoons pickling spice
1 5-pound beef brisket
1 carrot, peeled and roughly chopped
1 medium onion, peeled and cut in two
1 celery stalk, roughly chopped.

In pot large enough to hold brisket, combine 1 gallon of water with kosher salt, sugar, sodium nitrite (if using), garlic and 2 tablespoons pickling spice. Bring to a simmer, stirring until salt and sugar are dissolved. Remove from heat and let cool to room temperature, then refrigerate until chilled.

Place brisket in brine, weighted with a plate to keep it submerged; cover. Refrigerate for 5 days.

Remove brisket from brine and rinse thoroughly. Place in a pot just large enough to hold it. Cover with water and add remaining pickling spice, carrot, onion and celery. Bring to a boil over high heat, reduce heat to low and cover. Simmer gently until brisket is fork-tender, about 3 hours, adding water if needed to cover brisket.

Keep warm until ready to serve. Meat can be refrigerated for several days in cooking liquid. Reheat in the liquid or serve chilled. Slice thinly and serve on a sandwich or with additional vegetables simmered until tender in the cooking liquid.

* A note about the salt. Salt level not hugely critical here because it’s basically boiled and excess salt moves into cooking liquid. You can weigh out 12 ounces here if you feel better using a scale (approximately a 10% brine). Or you can simply make a 5% brine of however much water you need to cover (6.4 ounces per gallon). When you cook it, season the cooking liquid to the level you want your meat seasoned. Another option is wrapping the brisket in foil and cooking it in a 225 degree oven till tender, but only do this if you’ve used the 5% brine.

Pickling Spice:

2 tablespoons black peppercorns
2 tablespoons mustard seeds
2 tablespoons coriander seeds
2 tablespoons hot red pepper flakes
2 tablespoons allspice berries
1 tablespoon ground mace
2 small cinnamon sticks, crushed or broken into pieces
2 to 4 bay leaves, crumbled
2 tablespoons whole cloves
1 tablespoon ground ginger.

Combine peppercorns, mustard seeds and coriander seeds in a small dry pan. Place over medium heat and stir until fragrant, being careful not to burn them; keep lid handy in case seeds pop. Crack peppercorns and seeds in mortar and pestle or with the side of a knife on cutting board.

Combine with other spices, mix. Store in tightly sealed plastic or glass container.

[Lew Barrett]

Corn is of course grain, seeds and berries in general so pepper is corn thinking olde style and liberally allowing for variations. I think Jewish pastrami with its pepper crust is what to think of in terms of being corned. But then, you use peppercorns in any decent corned beef and cabbage so there's the corn. All grains, any seeds or spices you might use in seasoning your beef could be corn in English not that long ago. That's my speculation.

As for corned beets...of course you can corn a beet. In fact, I'm now challenged to do so. I'm going to corn a beet and post the photos here, I swear! Stand by.

[Lew Barrett]

But Catholics can't eat Reuben sandwiches if St. Patrick's Day falls on a Friday as it did this year, right? What's the no-meat alternative to a Reuben?

Tom

I'm partial to a proper bagel, cream cheese, lox, maybe some capers and red onion. That gets it done.

[Lew Barrett]

We’re working through a 40 lb bag. Lots of pink pee in the toilet.

I wish to explain to gypsie that beets can be boiled and roasted but whatever you do to them, you get a reminder the next day. They seem to pas more or less straight through. For some reason this is supposed to be good for your health and is desirable unless you're scheduled for an imminent colonoscopy. I think beets were subsistence food, a winter crop, that have a lot of sugar and taste like the dirt they were grown in. I like them but that's probably "epigenetic" or that I grew up eating them, usually in soup.

[Chip-skiff]

??? Even the coarse salt sold for treating hides, etc. isn't nearly as large as a corn kernel. If it was that big, it wouldn't dissolve quickly enough to act as intended.

Back to Irish subsistence, I left out pigs. Most smallholders and farmer tenants wanted to keep a pig or two. First off, a pig will eat anything you toss into the pen, be it whey, kitchen waste, butcher's offal, dead lambs and chickens, husks and chaff, hoof trimmings, ad infinitum. Which the pig converts to fat and protein.

Tenants often had to give up the hams and loins to the landlord, while keeping the bony shanks, jowls, shoulders, trotters, and bellies. Bacon was a blessing to the labouring poor, seldom served as rashers and more often used to flavor stews, colcannon, and such.

[David G]

It’s surprising how seriously my imaginary origin story can appear to some. People are just too cereal these days.I guess corned beef and cabbage should not be taken lightly. This is heavy duty fare!

There you go... trying out that whole 'sense of humor' thing again. How well has THAT worked for ya in the past? <G>

[Breakaway]

??? Even the coarse salt sold for treating hides, etc. isn't nearly as large as a corn kernel. If it was that big, it wouldn't dissolve quickly enough to act as intended.

Back to Irish subsistence, I left out pigs. Most smallholders and farmer tenants wanted to keep a pig or two. First off, a pig will eat anything you toss into the pen, be it whey, kitchen waste, butcher's offal, dead lambs and chickens, husks and chaff, hoof trimmings, ad infinitum. Which the pig converts to fat and protein.

Tenants often had to give up the hams and loins to the landlord, while keeping the bony shanks, jowls, shoulders, trotters, and bellies. Bacon was a blessing to the labouring poor, seldom served as rashers and more often used to flavor stews, colcannon, and such.

Chip, how large were corn kernels 200 -300 years ago?? IDK, but suspect smaller kernels on smaller ears than what we are used to?

Kevin


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[Chip-skiff]

Jasus wept.

Take a break, away. . .

[Breakaway]

Jasus wept.

Take a break, away. . .

Clever.

According to Wikipedia:

The term maize is preferred in formal, scientific, and international usage as the common name because this refers specifically to this one grain whereas corn refers to any principal cereal crop cultivated in a country. For example, in North America and Australia corn is often used for maize, but in England and Wales it can refer to wheat or barley, and in Scotland and Ireland to oats.

Kevin


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[Chris Woodward]

Barleycorn

[gypsie]

We didn't have corned beef (or beets) in Ireland, but I dare say if we did I dare say Nicholas's recipe above would have included a cup of barley.

Barley has a semi mythological status in Ireland. You could carry pockets full of it and munch as required.
During the war of independence, the British would round up suspected (and actual) rebels, take the up the mountain, shoot them and bury them in a shallow grave. Come spring the sprouting barely from the pockets would tell the relatives where the bodies were.
The inexorable spring sprouting of barley became a metaphor for the undying resistance to British rule. The wind that shakes the barley always blows.

The metaphor doesn't quite work if you use corn. Or salt.

[Chip-skiff]

During the war of independence, the British would round up suspected (and actual) rebels, take the up the mountain, shoot them and bury them in a shallow grave. Come spring the sprouting barely from the pockets would tell the relatives where the bodies were.

The inexorable spring sprouting of barley became a metaphor for the undying resistance to British rule. The wind that shakes the barley always blows.

Thanks for the grim and yet hopeful tale.

[Chip-skiff]

I yield to the superior argument.

"Beef, corned or otherwise, wasn't often eaten in ancient Ireland because the cow was considered a symbol of wealth in the Gaelic religion. While the Irish enjoyed dairy products (which didn't require the slaughtering of the animal), beef was often reserved for royalty. The pig actually was the most eaten meat in Ireland. It wasn't until England's 16th-century conquering of Ireland that the cow turned from an animal of deference to a food commodity. With a taste for beef thanks to the ancient Romans, the English brought in thousands of cattle from the Irish countryside to the tables of English urbanites. But in the 1660s, a series of so-called Cattle Acts enacted by the English Parliament prohibited cattle exports to England and kept Irish beef at home. This drove down cattle prices in Ireland and made the meat more abundant and affordable.

While the tradition of salting beef as a means of preserving it has been around for thousands of years, the term "corned beef" dates to around the time of the Cattle Acts. Originally the word "corn" came from the Germanic word "kurnam," meaning "small seed." In the 17th century, salted beef started taking on the name corned beef in some parts of England because of the large "kernels" of rock salt used to preserve it.

Though corned beef grew in popularity in England, Ireland was actually the hub for corned beef production due to the abundance of cows and a lower salt tax, which was about one-tenth of England's. Due to these lower salt taxes, Irish companies were better able to import higher quality white salt, usually from Portugal or Spain. And because in good corned beef the quality of the salt is almost as important as the cut of the beef, the Irish developed a reputation for excellent products. The city of Cork, in southern Ireland, became the center of the corned beef trade through the 17th and the beginning of the 18th centuries, shipping out half of the beef the country produced. Irish corned beef became such a commodity that it dominated transatlantic trade, providing provisions for both sides of the Anglo-French War, to the West Indies, and to New World cities like New York and Philadelphia. Unfortunately, as demand grew for Irish corned beef, the price spiked high enough that, once again, the very people who made it could not afford to eat it. They settled for pork and a new crop, the Irish potato."

https://www.foodandwine.com/news/com...ry-corned-beef

[stromborg]

https://ruhlman.com/cure-corned-beef/

Home-Cured Corned Beef

Servings: Yield: 8 to 10 servings

1-1/2 cups kosher salt*
1/2 cup sugar
4 teaspoons pink salt (sodium nitrite), optional
3 cloves garlic, minced
4 tablespoons pickling spice
1 5-pound beef brisket
1 carrot, peeled and roughly chopped
1 medium onion, peeled and cut in two
1 celery stalk, roughly chopped.

No need to add sugar when corning beef. Skipping the sodium nitrite work OK too though you end up with a less than appealing gray brisket.

[Peerie Maa]

??? Even the coarse salt sold for treating hides, etc. isn't nearly as large as a corn kernel. If it was that big, it wouldn't dissolve quickly enough to act as intended.

Sea salt does not form lumps, more like thin flakes, but mined rock salt can be crushed as coarse or fine as you wish.

[Mrleft88]

Corn is also a misnomer for meat. Ie: The Corn Islands off the coast of central America were originally The Carne Islands Because that was where ships would stop to provision meat for the journey back across..... I don't remember why those islands had meat when others didn't, but there was a rational explanation that Chuck Phillips explained to me once, long ago. This is also the origin of the term "Carnaval" where there was a "Feast" and people partied, drank, and ate meat. "Feast" is where the alternate word for carnival comes from..... "Festival", AKA in other places as "Fete".
But in the case of "Corned beef" the term "Corned" means pickled. And in my limited experience, 5 days is no where near long enough to pickle a Beef brisket. More like 2-3 weeks.

[StevenBauer]

No need to add sugar when corning beef. Skipping the sodium nitrite work OK too though you end up with a less than appealing gray brisket.

Here in Maine the Corned Beef is gray not red. Seemed weird when we moved here 33 years ago but now the red stuff seems kind of gross.

[Mrleft88]

Red is from the sodium nitrate.
BUT you'll notice that all good smoked meat has a red, or pink "smoke ring"....

[Nicholas Carey]

No need to add sugar when corning beef. Skipping the sodium nitrite work OK too though you end up with a less than appealing gray brisket.

Disagree. The sugar adds a certain je ne-sais quoi.

And you can't skip the Prague Powder #1 (the pink salt). The sodium nitrate changes both color and flavor.

All the "nitrate-free" cured meats you see, like bacon, will list celery, celery extract, or celery powder as an ingredient. Why? Celery is loaded with sodium nitrate.

[Lugs]

I see references to both sodium nitrite and sodium nitrate with relation to the red colour of corned beef. Two different thingies, lads - used for different curing processes.

We have both, but only use one. They are such dangerous products that I'm the only one allowed to use them. I make up the Prague Powder (diluted sodium nitrite)... and run the spreadsheet for the brining mix measures for each lump of meat.

I suspect that I buy more brisket than most here....

[Nicholas Carey]

I see references to both sodium nitrite and sodium nitrate with relation to the red colour of corned beef. Two different thingies, lads - used for different curing processes.

We have both, but only use one. They are such dangerous products that I'm the only one allowed to use them. I make up the Prague Powder (diluted sodium nitrite)... and run the spreadsheet for the brining mix measures for each lump of meat.

I suspect that I buy more brisket than most here....

Here in the USA, at least,

Prague Powder #1 is 6.25% sodium nitrite and 93.75% table salt or sodium chloride. It is intended for wet cures like sausage, bacon, or corned beef.

Prague powder #2 is of 89.75% salt, 6.25% sodium nitrite, and 4% sodium nitrate. It is intended for dry cured meats, like salami, or country hams.

Do not confuse the two.

[stromborg]

Some Montreal Smoked Beef I posted over on the "What's for Dinner" thread a couple of weeks back, a close cousin to pastrami.

Prague #1 plus kosher salt and a spicy rub in vacuum bag for 7(?) days. Then soaked, smoked and finally steamed. Delicious, probably could have pulled from the brine a day earlier, hard tell exactly when the nitrites have gone all the way through. I made some pastrami over the winter that had a thin strip of gray running through the center of the thickest part. Still tasted good.