slaughtering fish using 'ice slurry' results in poor fish welfare

[Paul Pless]

World's first octopus farm proposals alarm scientists.

To supply "premium international markets" including the US, South Korea and Japan, Nueva Pescanova wants to produce 3,000 tonnes of octopus a year.

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-64814781

[George.]

Octopus are not fish.

[Paul Pless]

Octopus are not fish.

tell the animal rights activist quoted by the bbc

[Paul Pless]

octopus are legendary for their intelligence and for being escape artists
how long before we read a headline describing the world's largest mass escape event from a fish farm?

[George.]

Why would octopus be in a fish farm?

[George.]

tell the animal rights activist quoted by the bbc

Probably not worth my time.

Since people continue to eat octopus, each octopus killed at the farm represents one less taken from the wild and killed. Less pressure on wild ecosystems.

As for the study, it completely fails to consider that pain happens in the brain, not in the muscle. If the fish is literally out cold, it won't feel anything.

[lupussonic]

Brutal.

There are some species best left to themselves.

[Breakaway]

^ I doubt farming will reduce pressure.

Rather, it will raise the price for " wild caught." Inducing more, or, at least, sustaining, current effort levels. And, by commoditizing octopus, the market for them will grow larger than it was when wild caught was the sole source. See salmon, or oyster or " diver" scallops, etc. or for that matter, turkey, duck, bison.

Kevin

[David W Pratt]

Given the short lifespan of octopods, how do they get so smart, so fast?

[Norman Bernstein]

^ I doubt farming will reduce pressure.

Rather, it will raise the price for " wild caught." Inducing more, or, at least, sustaining, current effort levels. And, by commoditizing octopus, the market for them will grow larger than it was when wild caught was the sole source. See salmon, or oyster or " diver" scallops, etc. or for that matter, turkey, duck, bison.

I could be wrong, but I don't think that octopus as a food source will experience a very broad market. Let's face it: octopus is tasteless, and is eaten primarily for it's texture... unlike scallops, oysters, salmon, etc.

Additionally, regarding the method of slaughter, I wonder how it compares to how salmon are butchered (disemboweled while alive, I believe).

[Jimmy W]

the species octopus vulgaris

so what vulgar acts did these do to get the name? and were they "woke"?

[George.]

I'd rather be frozen alive than slowly crushed under a mass of bycatch in a trawl net, or left flopping on a steel deck until I bruise myself senseless.

[George.]

Why are octopuses vulgar? The joke tells itself.

[CWSmith]

Given the short lifespan of octopods, how do they get so smart, so fast?

How do beavers learn to be such effective engineers? Somehow, a lot of it must be wired in their brains from birth.

[David G]

I could be wrong, but I don't think that octopus as a food source will experience a very broad market. Let's face it: octopus is tasteless, and is eaten primarily for it's texture... unlike scallops, oysters, salmon, etc.

Additionally, regarding the method of slaughter, I wonder how it compares to how salmon are butchered (disemboweled while alive, I believe).

Texture, yes. And a protein source.

My dad's commercial fishermen buddies knew he'd eat octopus, and there wasn't really a market for the occasional catch. So we were sometimes gifted with them. The heads became garden fertilizer. The tentacles, we kids got to 'tenderize' by beating thoroughly agains the concrete basement wall. They were then skinned, slided into medallions, and pickled. Quite tasty that way.

I am also a bit skeptical about them becoming a regular supermarket item.

[Jimmy W]

Their relatives, squid are used for human consumption with commercial fisheries in Japan, the Mediterranean, the southwestern Atlantic, the eastern Pacific and elsewhere. They are used in cuisines around the world, often known as "calamari".

[George.]

Octopus, tasteless? Unfortunately for them, no.

Where's Joe to tell us about polipo?

[SaltyD from BC]

I used to work with some Portuguese guys in a pulp mill they turned lunch time into another worldly thing with the wee kitchenette we had in the lunch room. One of their best creations as I recall was octopus medalians pan fried in olive oil spices and garlic.
Another guy I knew scuba dove and commercially fished for sea urchins. He told a story about having his head completely engulfed by an octopus, got a little too close to its lair I guess. He could not for the life of him peel it off his head and he was starting to worry about it interfering with or worse removing his regulator so he did a controlled assent and was then able to peel it off of him at the surface. That's all I got

[Keith Wilson]

Octopus is pretty tasty IMHO, squid even better. Sea urchins (erizos in Chile) are weird-tasting, bright orange squooshy things. Not bad, but very strange.

[AndyG]

Given the short lifespan of octopods, how do they get so smart, so fast?

This. And for what benefit?

Andy

[George.]

Because they are generalist predators living in complex environments, and have an incredibly plastic body which they can control very precisely.

[skuthorp]

Brutal.

There are some species best left to themselves.

Brutal, there are members of some species that deserve to be slaughtered.

[SaltyD from BC]

I think we some time assign more intelligence to animals than they actually possess. Octopus do some amazing things all right, they hide themselves perfectly in a hole where they can strike in an instant to ambush prey. They show signs of being inquisitive. Pretty smart for what they are but... The beaver example is another one. They keep building their dam till the water stops running the water shows them how to build something perfectly flat and level. I saw a video where a speaker was buried in a beaver damn which wasn't leaking broadcasting the sound of running water. The beavers built a huge big pile of brush on the dam where the speaker was buried until they couldn't hear it any more.

[George.]

I think we some time assign more intelligence to animals than they actually possess.

People too.

[lupussonic]

^ Have you seen this?

[skuthorp]

"I think we some time assign more intelligence to animals than they actually possess."
I think we some time assign more morality to many humans than they actually posess.

[SaltyD from BC]

I think we some time assign more morality to many humans than they actually posess.

I'll say

[lupussonic]

How about dog ranches then? Let's get this out in the open.

Polar bears, gorillas, hummingbirds and tender baby giraffes to follow up?

The psychological fixations people have over what is acceptable or not to farm and consume is tricky and a minefield. I was a vegan for 4 years and a dairy vegetarian for around 10. I have had 100,000 mostly boring conversations about diet and the ethics of what to eat and what not to, for reasons of environmental impact, economic unsustainability, life quality, death quality, geography and of course health benefits. A big part of conditioned diet is what your tribe eats.. for example eating horses in various areas of Europe is no different to eating cow or pig in the minds of those that were brought up with eating it, yet it is an abhorrent idea to those that did not. But it is generally a fundamental self evident truth that we do not, as a species, sit well with the farming, slaughter and eating as the intelligence quotient scales up.

The connection one makes with animals with higher intelligence enriches us, even completes us as humans. You have to be some cold disconnected unsentient mutha to farm dogs for slaughter.

We have only very recently become scientifically aware behaviourly and psychologically of the cephalopods in our oceans. They change colour at will, decieve others to gain advantage (high IQ), are definitely creative, playful, curious and capable of emotion. Pretty ****ty of us humans to corral them, farm them in artificial conditions and then chuck them through the mincer along with anything else that will make us a profit, just because we can.

[lupussonic]

Lower fish are fine, cos..

[Breakaway]

I could be wrong, but I don't think that octopus as a food source will experience a very broad market.

I think you are right, Norm.
Farming, and the marketing that goes with farming, will not create a broad market. But, I bet it increases demand.

Kevin

[lupussonic]

I was driving home in the pipeline Hilux a few years ago, hot tired sweaty and looking forward to a shower and a beer, kinda dreamy and my helper colleague sitting next to me turns and says 'Hey, you know fish right?'. I drive staring straight ahead, I just breathe in slowly, then breathe out. Maybe 4 times. Keep driving. What the hell? 'Hey you know fish right'? What kind of question was that? I'm confused and don't really want to open whatever can of worms he's working on. But I have to answer. With a tired sigh I say 'Yes, I know fish. Well, I've known some fish anyway. I am aware of fish'. This satisfies him for a while, he is deep in thought. Then he goes 'You know they're not a thing right?'. Now we're in trouble. Wow, what do I do with that? Fish aren't a thing? I'm ricocheting back and forth around blaming myself for answering his first question, wondering what a thing is, if I have been hallucinating fish my whole life, all the French existentialists I have read and if fish came from outer space somehow disqualifying them from being a thing perhaps. My brain hurts from all this, but I manage a low mumble and a nod followed and 15 minutes silence until I can't help myself and against better judgement ask him 'Why aren't fish a thing then?'. He goes on to explain the Linnaean system of taxonomy which seperates internal and external gestation, exo or endo skeletons and all the other things which we have grouped into groups. It all made sense in his head at least. I have taken the path of least resistance in this matter, and convey to you ladies and gentlemen a fscinating fact which you have been mistaken about if you ever thought that fish were a thing.

They are not.

[Jimmy W]

How about dog ranches then? Let's get this out in the open.
... You have to be some cold disconnected unsentient mutha to farm dogs for slaughter.

....

Yet just last year, approximately 4,000 beagles at Envigo RMS LLC’s facility in Cumberland, Virginia, which bred dogs to be sold to laboratories for animal experimentation were rescued.

The transfer plan comes as a result of a lawsuit filed against Envigo by the Department of Justice in May, alleging Animal Welfare Act violations at the facility. Government inspectors found that beagles there were being killed instead of receiving veterinary treatment for easily treated conditions; nursing mother beagles were denied food; the food that they did receive contained maggots, mold and feces; and over an eight-week period, 25 beagle puppies died from cold exposure. Other dogs suffered from injuries when they were attacked by other dogs in overcrowded conditions.

https://www.humanesociety.org/news/m...society-united

[Breakaway]

Texture, yes. And a protein source.


I am also a bit skeptical about them becoming a regular supermarket item.

They are already a supermarket item.

Publix ( A SE US chain)

Screen Shot 2023-03-17 at 5.42.38 PM.jpg

Stop N Shop ( NE US chain)

Screen Shot 2023-03-17 at 5.30.55 PM.jpg

Walmart

Screen Shot 2023-03-17 at 5.48.17 PM.jpg

Kevin

[Jimmy W]

[Jimmy W]