San Fran reparations proposal

[Dikhaut]

Keep in mind that slavery was never legal in CA, even when it was part of Mexico.

https://apnews.com/article/san-franc...8ce0e444f86189


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[David G]

Keep in mind that slavery was never legal in CA, even when it was part of Mexico.

https://apnews.com/article/san-franc...8ce0e444f86189
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Interesting proposal, eh?

[BrianW]

I'm all for it. Except, all California Reparation currency be paid in "CalCoin" and are only valid in California.

[rbgarr]

More and more reparations discussions and considerations are underway nationwide. They will be more like to be resolved when the slavery aspect becomes secondary to the history of redlining, employment discrimination, predatory bank lending practices, barriers to wealth-building, etc. They are useful discussions and it will be interesting to see what comes out of them though it will take a long time.

[Dikhaut]

This would definitely fix one of the perceived problems mentioned in the article. It said that the black population of San Fran has dropped to 6%. If they proceed with this every black person on the planet will be on their way to San Fran to participate. I wonder if anyone who “identifies” as black would be eligible?


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[MushCreek]

I've never understood how reparation could be done, from a practical standpoint. How do you determine who came from a slavery background? Not all black people do. Whites who had no involvement in slavery shouldn't be made to pay, even in the form of taxation. Millions of people came this country long after slavery was abolished. Why should they have to pay? What percentage of black would be eligible? Would someone like Obama pay reparation to.... himself?

Slavery has been around forever. I have no way to find out, but it wouldn't surprise me if some ancestor of mine was a slave at some point in history. It's just as likely that someone in my ancestry owned a slave. Oh, and there were black slave traders, too. What do we do to/for their descendants?

[skuthorp]

It's not reparations they need. Its an apology, a real apology. But America owes a ton of apologies, not least to it's own. Generations of them.
Too late now of course, the results will have to work out as they will.

But nations are like that, and we all descend from Africans…………….

[George.]

What if a family, because it didn't have the opportunity for education or experience with personal finances (except as a debtor), squanders away the reparations? Do you pay again to the next generation?

What about people who just moved into the city, or who just moved out?

What about the aboriginal people, Mexicans, and Chinese?

Kind of hard for a city by itself to do reparations for national crimes.

[Paul Pless]

More and more reparations discussions and considerations are underway nationwide. They will be more like to be resolved when the slavery aspect becomes secondary to the history of redlining, employment discrimination, predatory bank lending practices, barriers to wealth-building, etc. They are useful discussions and it will be interesting to see what comes out of them though it will take a long time.

they are more likely to be 'resolved' as we edge closer to the day when white people are no longer in the majority in america; however one demographic trend that may get in the way of reparations is that african americans will still be in minority compared to the quickly growing hispanic population

as of the year 2020 , of americans under the age of 18, there are more minority young people than there are white young people

excellent article (with lots of charts keith) here: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/...tting%20bigger.

white people should be very afraid - that is the message that the former nativist (now trumpian) segment of the gop has been spreading for quite some time

[Tom Hunter]

There are people who are alive who were ripped off by racist federal policy. For example redlining so that black people could not get a low rate mortgage. Making up for that is something we could do in a way that makes sense and is just.

What's going on in San Francisco seems to be the usual theater without substance that seems to have taken over the city.

[Boatbum]

I'm always a little bit difficult to quantify things. So someone who had a single relative that was impacted by slavery 3 or 4 generations ago is entitled to reparations paid (in part) by people who's ancestors may not even have been citizens of the US when there was slavery and/or who never owned slaves.

[L.W. Baxter]

this is just the kind of discussion we need to heal the country.

well, to mend the rift between white people, anyway, and bring them together under a banner of fascism.

let the healing begin!

[CWSmith]

I know this won't be popular, but reparations really are not the answer. Leveling the playing field, providing good schools for all, and PAYING PEOPLE WHAT THEIR WORK IS WORTH INSTEAD OF WHAT THE MARKET WILL BEAR is the key to ending poverty and racial injustice.

A parent cannot help their child with their homework if they are working 2 and 3 minimum-paying jobs just to put a roof over their head and food on the table.

[sandtown]

For a long time, the discussion of reparations for slavery revolved on compensating the SLAVE OWNERS for the loss of their property.

In Wash DC during the Civil War, the feds did pay such compensation.

It occured to almost no one to compensate the former slaves for their centuries of unpaid forced labor.

And yes, fully 20% of black Americans back in the day were never enslaved, i.e., free people

[Ted Hoppe]

Why stop with black folks? Native americas. All need 5 million. Hawaiians for certain need 5 million. Homeless need 5 million. Boat builders certainly need 5 million.

what needs to be done is change the tax code to upon death of a white person with assets all goes to the state so
the funds can be given to those historically economically challenged due color of skin or belief they can build a boat out of sustainable woods.

10 million to those boat builders with an IQ of less than 100 because they will burn through the money faster.

[WI-Tom]

Hmmm... Opposition to the idea of reparations from a bunch of old white guys. What a surprise!

Tom

[George.]

I think there is a broader principle at play. You can't rewrite history, and you can't fix the past. You can only improve the future.

Reparations is like toppling statues. A symbolic act, though a very expensive one. I say spend several times as much on providing every child with equal opportunities from now on.

[Paul Pless]

Native americas.

we should give them ownership of the national parks
just think of the casino resort building opportunities

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine...tribes/618395/

[WI-Tom]

My prediction is that the idea of paying reparations is going to keep gaining traction in the U.S.

Think about how far the perception of the LGBTQ+ community has come in what is really a very very short time for huge social changes. I think it's likely the same will happen with reparations. Not yet, but it's heading in that direction.

I think that's a good thing.

Starting to do things right "from now on" isn't going to be enough to really heal the divisions the nation has been suffering from.

Tom

[L.W. Baxter]

i'm not opposed to reparations.

i am opposed to adding fuel to the reactionary fires.

if there is anything we should learn from the tea party/trump era, faith in reasonable intentions is a weakness. it doesn't matter how right or just you are. winning is all that matters.

when the fascists win the three branches of government, everything can be undone. everything.

[WI-Tom]

i'm not opposed to reparations.

i am opposed to adding fuel to the reactionary fires.

if there is anything we should learn from the tea party/trump era, faith in reasonable intentions is a weakness. it doesn't matter how right or just you are. winning is all that matters.

when the fascists win the three branches of government, everything can be undone. everything.

I don't disagree with your tactical thinking. I think pushing reparations now at a national level would be incredibly divisive, and might well cause more damage than benefit.

That said, local actions have always been the way that divisive ideas gain traction nationally, and become more acceptable. Until eventually it is difficult to understand how anyone opposed them in the first place.

Tom

[Paul Pless]

holy **** a kumbaya moment

[Keith Wilson]

I agree that tactically it's a very bad idea.

Even ethically, I have my doubts. There has been lots and lots of injustice over the centuries. Can we correct it? Which of it should we try to make recompense for? African slavery and its aftermath is certainly the most obvious case in the US, and the one with the biggest hangover, but it's very far from the only one. A very large number of the immigrants to the US have been fleeing something pretty horrible, from the potato famine, to pogroms in eastern Europe, to the Taiping rebellion, to the Nazis - or just the class structure in a whole lot of places that could make your life pretty awful if you didn't have the right parents. And even if you weren't the descendant of slaves or the original residents, the US has been pretty far from a utopia of fairness and justice. I understand the logic, and sympathize, but fixing history is difficult at best, and runs the risk of doing injustice to those who had nothing at all to do with the original problem, and even those whose ancestors had nothing to do with the original problem.

[George.]

we should give them ownership of the national parks
just think of the casino resort building opportunities

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine...tribes/618395/

No way, those are for the original native Americans. Reparations for bison and wolves!

[CWSmith]

You need only look at all the lottery winners who are broke a few years later to know that reparations will not work.

What works is the fair opportunity to make a better life for you family and their family. It's education, and that can include a trade school, and enough time for a parent to be present in the family. That will level the playing field faster than anything else we can do.

[Too Little Time]

Hmmm... Opposition to the idea of reparations from a bunch of old white guys. What a surprise!

Yea.

I am more in favor of reparations that are long lasting. Give the poor better old age benefits. Provide better educational opportunities to blacks. Make employers pay black workers the same as white workers.

[George.]

enough time for a parent to be present in the family.

Yes, but how? Some families only have one parent. Some have parents that are best absent. Some have parents who could be present but choose to make more money for the family.

I think society can improve what society can provide: schools, creches, health care, etc. It can't improve families.

[CWSmith]

Yes, but how? Some families only have one parent. Some have parents that are best absent. Some have parents who could be present but choose to make more money for the family.

I think society can improve what society can provide: schools, creches, health care, etc. It can't improve families.

You missed the point. I was saying that if people are paid a living wage, then they don't need to work 2 or 3 jobs to keep the family clothed and fed. That means time at the end of the day of the family.

[Ted Hoppe]

This is really about race, equity and equality and how we change the bell curve so folks on the left side of the curve get theirs.

Keep speculating... None of us are qualified to answer this. None of us want to give up what we have but struggle and justify our own selfishness. There are many people much smarter than us capable of taking more of what we all have; they will not give up in anything in the proposed equity reshuffle.

[David G]

This is really about race, equity and equality and how we change the bell curve so folks on the left side of the curve get theirs.

Keep speculating... None of us are qualified to answer this. None of us want to give up what we have but struggle and justify our own selfishness...

Just so.

There is the legal concept of 'making a victim whole'. Another one called 'statute of limitations'.

And a lot of people think of the whole issue in the context of a 'zero sum game'. And then, of course, there's money.

I'm very much in favor of making people whole. Or at least managing some reasonable approximation. I'm not interested in punishing anyone. But neither am I interested in enabling/perpetuating unearned privilege.

I don't believe at all it's a zsg situation. I think the money will turn out to be an investment, which will pay dividends.

But the question remains... CAN we craft a reasonably fair solution? The devil will be in the details, and it will take some open, caring, creative thinking in order to create such a solution. A study of what others in similar situations have done, and how it worked. Ongoing conversations with ALL stakeholders, and the development of relationships that suggest those people that the people doing the crafting are honest brokers... not ideologues or fools. There'll never be a perfect solution. But can we manage one that is good enough? Better?

I'd surely LOVE to work on such a research project. But it'll take a full-time team of competent folks years to do the work thoroughly enough to be useful. Drafts, meetings, feedback, buyin. It'd be a LOT of work. No shooting from the hip. No idle speculation. No dingbats in charge. But a project I suspect would be quite worthwhile for us to embark on.

[David W Pratt]

I know this won't be popular, but reparations really are not the answer. Leveling the playing field, providing good schools for all, and PAYING PEOPLE WHAT THEIR WORK IS WORTH INSTEAD OF WHAT THE MARKET WILL BEAR is the key to ending poverty and racial injustice.

A parent cannot help their child with their homework if they are working 2 and 3 minimum-paying jobs just to put a roof over their head and food on the table.

If we start paying people what their work is worth, we may have to reinstitute the Draft to get anyone to serve in Congress.

[Hwyl]

Hmmmmm,my fair skinned blue eye daughter is 10% sub Sahara African, that's according to 23and me, and she lives in San Francisco. 10% of 5 Million is $500,000. She could put the downpayment on an apartment.

[woodpile]

My prediction is that the idea of paying reparations is going to keep gaining traction in the U.S.

Think about how far the perception of the LGBTQ+ community has come in what is really a very very short time for huge social changes. I think it's likely the same will happen with reparations. Not yet, but it's heading in that direction.

I think that's a good thing.

Starting to do things right "from now on" isn't going to be enough to really heal the divisions the nation has been suffering from.

Tom

"gaining traction" until the average tax payers figures it out, have heard the San Fransisco reparation plan could be in the billions on top of California's 144 billion debt, lot of brainless people out there. Have to agree native Americans should be at the front of this line.

[CWSmith]

If we start paying people what their work is worth, we may have to reinstitute the Draft to get anyone to serve in Congress.

You mean that the best politicians may be the ones that don't really want the job? I could join in that movement!

[rbgarr]

A premise of many of the comments here is that only white people will be involved with any proposed reparations. If it's to be done monetarily (and it may not) all tax payers are likely to participate one way or another.