How long is too long?

[Newbiehull]

As my username can describe, I am new to the wooden boating world. I have talked to people and I am a fast hands on learner but I am still aware that boats and specially wooden ones take care, time and money. I have been told not to bother perusing the hobby but I would still like continue research and get my questions answered.

I know that boats generally are taken out of water off season and services, checked over and hull coated. I have already read that some boats only need to be coated ever couple years. I live in the western islands of Canada and there are many boats near by with people that aren’t well off and live on them full time. I can’t imagine they are blocking them once a year. My question is, what’s the longest a wooden boat can be in the water without maintance? I’m not taking travelling worthy but just sitting in a nice quiet Harbor.

Thanks!

[lupussonic]

The longer you leave it, the greater the maintenance.

Simple really, but you give no indication of how well maintained a hull is when it goes in, or what material it is made from, nor the construction method, nor the local marine life ecology, nor the climate. So it's not an easy question to answer.

If you asked ' how long can a carvel 40 footer made from larch on oak frames, that was built 20 years ago, red leaded throughout, that will live at such and such marina in a climate of -10 / +40c , max 20 relative humidity, that is completely covered with a waterproof tent all year, in an area with no gribble or toredo, we might have a better chance at helping you.

I'd go around your local boat owners and ask them, although they don't sound like boat builders, more low rent marginalised owners.

[wizbang 13]

Yer question “how long can a wood boat stay in the water without …”
no, don’t. do. It.
just don’t
Its a wrong question

[Larks]

Too many dependencies to answer such a question simply. Maintenance requirements can depend on multiple things - such as:

The age and general condition of the vessel;
The level and quality of maintenance that it received at its last docking;
The type, suitability, application and quality of antifoul used;
The environment, location and type of water that it’s sitting in - fresh, salt, warm, cold, polluted.......;
The quality of the build;
Quality of materials, paints and fittings used;
The condition of the fittings used: through-hull fittings, sea cocks, hoses, fastenings.......;
Other issues such as age, wear and condition of topsides paint;
Any damage or wear that needs to be repaired out of the water;
Is the location (environment) suitable to leave the vessel in the water during the “off” season?;
etc;
etc;
etc........

If the boat is in good condition and the local conditions suitable for keeping it in the water, the maintenance cycle would revolve around the functional “life" of the antifoul being used, ie haul it out when the antifoul stops antifouling - which is dependent on the quality, application and type of antifoul and local conditions.

[nedL]

In my mind the biggest concern is ship worms. If a wooden boat is allowed to stay in the water past when the bottom paint is a continuos layer (until it wears through in spots) then ship worms can get into the wood. Ship worms are often a death sentence for a perfectly good boat.
Barnacles, seaweed and other marine growth are relatively harmless, but ship worms are very destructive.
In North America, with the cleaner water and warmer water over the past 50 years or so ship worms are being found much farther north than they ever were 50-60 years ago.
For this reason I would not suggest going more than two years or so without hauling out to address the bottom. Everything from the waterline up can be taken care of in the water.

[Pelirrojo]

Well I agree with the generalities posted above I have spent a significant part of my professional career working in the PNW and feel that any boat that doesn’t come out every three years at a minimum is being neglected. That does not mean that there do not be exist sound boats that have been neglected longer than that.

[Newbiehull]

Wow I appreciate all this information so much! I’m looking at various project boats, all different conditions. I’ll give an example of one.
1945 60’ unknown wood( owner seems to keep skipping that information..) cruiser. It’s been in salt water it’s whole life but the owner basically nothing about it’s history. It has spent awhile in a marina in the calm waters of Pacific Northwest of Canada. It can be rainy and humid in the springs, I don’t think it was covered but it was heated from the inside.
He took it out a couple weeks ago to get maintanced, said two shipwrights surveyed it. The hull is in good shape but may need some refastening as they don’t know the last time it was done. It has not been coated for two years. (And the freeboard has fibreglass over the wood). The survey didn’t come back with any major issues with the hull.
I know I will need to take care of those things sooner then later if I take that boat on.

[Canoeyawl]

Sounds like a box of worms...

[Toxophilite]

Did the gentleman have a copy of the survey for you to peruse?
Did he haul it out and not paint the bottom while he had it out?
The topsides are glassed but not the hull?

I ran into an interesting catch 22 with a larger wooden boat.
I was looking at Marinas.
Marinas need insurance
Insurance requires a survey
A proper survey requires a haulout
A haulout requires insurance

I'm sure there's work arounds

If I was living and sleeping on a wooden boat. I would want to know the hull was sound and well cared for.

Wow I appreciate all this information so much! I’m looking at various project boats, all different conditions. I’ll give an example of one.
1945 60’ unknown wood( owner seems to keep skipping that information..) cruiser. It’s been in salt water it’s whole life but the owner basically nothing about it’s history. It has spent awhile in a marina in the calm waters of Pacific Northwest of Canada. It can be rainy and humid in the springs, I don’t think it was covered but it was heated from the inside.
He took it out a couple weeks ago to get maintanced, said two shipwrights surveyed it. The hull is in good shape but may need some refastening as they don’t know the last time it was done. It has not been coated for two years. (And the freeboard has fibreglass over the wood). The survey didn’t come back with any major issues with the hull.
I know I will need to take care of those things sooner then later if I take that boat on.

[Larks]

the owner basically (knows) nothing about it’s history

The hull is in good shape but may need some refastening as they don’t know the last time it was done.

And the freeboard has fibreglass over the wood

The survey didn’t come back with any major issues with the hull.
.

Well there’s a handful of alarm bells right there:

You do not refasten a hull because you don’t know when it was last done......you refasten it because the fastenings are failing! Why are the fastenings failing??

I assume by “freeboard” you mean topsides - the timber above the waterline? Where I come from freeboard is a “measure” not a part of a boat and it can vary. Why are the topsides of the hull glassed but not the underwater area of the hull?

Was the survey done by a wooden boat surveyor or the shipwrights? They are not the same.

It seems a bit odd that they didn’t seem to think the issue with fastenings and the glass above the waterline was worth further investigation.... Is there any report from this “survey” that you can sight first hand or are you taking it on second hand advice from the owner who may have conveniently (or otherwise) forgotten exactly what was said?

[Newbiehull]

Hi everyone,
that particular boat was hauled out but got booted back to the water before it was coated due to need for space where he was told he could work on it. I’m going to ask if he has a copy of the survey. And yes it’s the topside that is glassed, I’mnot sure why and I have a feeling he might not know. He doesn’t seem to know much about the boat at all.. I know that if I took this project on that I would need to haul it out, get it surveyed, check the fastenings and coat it Atleast I guess my assumption now is that is something I would want to do right away?
My current goal for a project boat that is somewhat livable is to live on it short term while I work on the inside and getting it off grid, saving my “rent” money and putting it all towards the project. Then in a short while I’ll haul it out and work on the hull. I don’t plan on travelling for probably 2 years as I need to save money. I do think it’s a good idea I get a copy of the survey.

[wizbang 13]

If yer short on money, you might want to find an old fiberglass boat .

[pez_leon]

As you've said you still don't know what you don't know. The questions you are asking are not in the right ballpark - not really in the right province - for someone who should buy an old wooden boat to live aboard.
If you think you might be interested in sweat equity and wooden boats I suggest you find a cheap wooden dinghy to restore. It will gladly absorb all the free time and money you want to throw at it. It will not require any monthly commitment to stay afloat. In a few years you'll know enough to make a decision.
Or: make yourself a skin-on-frame boat. You can use it to explore your surroundings and, if you choose carefully, it might serve as a tender for your someday live-aboard.

But most importantly get away from spending any money on this boat - or any boat that will stay in the water - as fast as you possibly can.



My two cents.

- James

[Alan H]

You do not want a wood boat. If you think you're going to "save money" by purchasing a cool, romantic wood boat, and "slowly fix her up" on the cheap while you live on her, then you are hallucinating. The world is full of nice people like you, who have very little money, almost no tools, and no knowledge. They get on a wood boat. They live on it for a while, and don't do anything, because while it's very romantic and enticing to think that you can work on a boat "bit by bit", that's not how it is with a wood boat. You spend a LOT of time just maintaining it. You want to IMPROVE it? You need skills, you need tools, you need money.

That's the cold, hard reality. MONEY. have you asked a boatyard what it would cost to haul a boat out onto the yard and set it up on stands? Get ready for MONEY SHOCK. You might ask around and see if there are any yards around you that still allow people to work on their own boats in the yard. Those days are long gone, here where I live. Because, you see, if you're not able to work on the boat yourself, then you are paying the yards "wood guy"...(or gal)..the equivalent of $74 - $100 an hour to do a job that might take many hours.

Just for perspective, my tiny little cabin-less 24 foot fiberglass sailboat cost me $2,000 at my last haul out. I had to pay them to do the work, I couldn't work on it myself, in their yard.

Get a older fiberglass boat from the 1960's. They are 1/10th the maintenance work and even if there are significant problems with the structure, they generally speaking won't fall apart on you, sitting in the Bay going nowhere, which is clearly what you plan to do. Honestly, find a fiberglass powerboat from the 1960's. You get a lot more room for your $$ on a powerboat.

Honestly, since you're really looking for something to live on/in, rather than a boat to use as a boat, a used van is a better investment and a hell of a lot less work as well as a hell of a lot more convenient than any boat.

[Canoeyawl]

Hi everyone,
that particular boat was hauled out but got booted back to the water before it was coated due to need for space where he was told he could work on it. I’m going to ask if he has a copy of the survey. And yes it’s the topside that is glassed, I’mnot sure why and I have a feeling he might not know. He doesn’t seem to know much about the boat at all.. I know that if I took this project on that I would need to haul it out, get it surveyed, check the fastenings and coat it Atleast I guess my assumption now is that is something I would want to do right away?
My current goal for a project boat that is somewhat livable is to live on it short term while I work on the inside and getting it off grid, saving my “rent” money and putting it all towards the project. Then in a short while I’ll haul it out and work on the hull. I don’t plan on travelling for probably 2 years as I need to save money. I do think it’s a good idea I get a copy of the survey.

I'm not trying to be insulting, but to me from here it sounds like if that boat ^ was gifted to you it would only take 100-200k to put it right

[bvv]

Look for a boat that needs some work and has a long-time owner wishing to sell to someone with the resources and desire to own and maintain her for the long term. Price is often less important than a new owner with those qualities.

For any wooden boat you are considering, ask the owner to have the boat hauled, pay him for the lay days, hire a surveyor that works for you (not the owner) and have him provide a written survey, then hire a shipwright to review the survey and the boat and give you some estimate ranges to..

1. Make the boat sound and pass insurance survey.
2. Repairs to prevent fresh water from entering the boat
3. Further disassembly/reassembly to investigate questionable areas and refine the estimate.

Rinse and repeat for at least three boats that you're interested in before making a decision. It's unlikely that the first one will sell or that the price won't come down in the meantime.

Be sure that the surveyor is competent to survey the boat's systems and the drive train as well as the hull, etc.

If you end up buying a boat, you'll be knowledge and money ahead by avoiding the one that has the most varnish and least real maintenance.

Good Luck!

[Larks]

Hi everyone,
that particular boat was hauled out but got booted back to the water before it was coated due to need for space where he was told he could work on it. I’m going to ask if he has a copy of the survey. And yes it’s the topside that is glassed, I’mnot sure why and I have a feeling he might not know. He doesn’t seem to know much about the boat at all.. I know that if I took this project on that I would need to haul it out, get it surveyed, check the fastenings and coat it Atleast I guess my assumption now is that is something I would want to do right away?
My current goal for a project boat that is somewhat livable is to live on it short term while I work on the inside and getting it off grid, saving my “rent” money and putting it all towards the project. Then in a short while I’ll haul it out and work on the hull. I don’t plan on travelling for probably 2 years as I need to save money. I do think it’s a good idea I get a copy of the survey.

If this is your first boat DO NOT buy a boat that needs work on the hull particularly with any thought of fixing it later. The hull is the bit that keeps the water out of the people box.

If the hull needs any work that is going to have to be your first priority and, as others have said, hauling it out and working on it yourself may not be possible or within any reasonable budget - unless you have somewhere where you can park it for free long term where you will be allowed to work on it yourself.

As someone has already suggested - get an idea of haul out and yard costs and restrictions before going any further.

60’ is a big boat and everything goes up in price as the boat gets bigger - haulout costs, yard space, marine berths, mooring costs, paint, antifoul........

[Alan H]

I missed the 60-feet issue. Seriously...do you have $50,000 - $100,000 to spend while you live in an apartment, or your van, or your house?

A 60 foot wood boat is a HUGE and blisteringly expensive commitment. The idea of "I'll live on this 60 foot boat to save money, and fix it up on the cheap". is INSANE.

Maybe...~Maybe~.. you could pull it off with a 28 footer. Maybe...if you had a remarkable amount of personal work ethic, drive and a steady source of income.

Then again, you could do what so many do.... get the boat, live on it until the boat falls apart, and then abandon it until some storm sinks it, releasing oil grease and other toxics into the water or deposits the thing on the beach. See, that way you got cheap rent for 3-5 years and you can skip out from under any responsibility for the craft, when leave town for parts unknown.

yes, I'm being nasty and mean but the truth is that this exact scenario happens all the time.

[Woxbox]

For perspective, following up on Alan's suggestion, this boat is offered by the Chesapeake Bay Maritime Museum for $8,000. I wouldn't want to pay to fill the tanks even once. (Twin 350hp engines to feed!) But as a moored live-aboard? Not too pretty, but practical. It even has a generator. And the boat is reported to be "ready to go."

[Dave Wright]

For perspective, following up on Alan's suggestion, this boat is offered by the Chesapeake Bay Maritime Museum for $8,000. I wouldn't want to pay to fill the tanks even once. (Twin 350hp engines to feed!) But as a moored live-aboard? Not too pretty, but practical. It even has a generator. And the boat is reported to be "ready to go."

That's the way to go if you want to go cheap. I did virtually the same thing over 30 years ago. I picked up a 20 year old 27 foot Owens fiberglass express cruiser from a maritime charitable organization. I'd have to dig up the price, but under 10 grand. It had a good running V8 inboard and gearbox (I checked those thoroughly). I wouldn't have bought the boat unless it was in usable condition. I had sufficient experience to assess some of the shortcomings, e.g., raw water cooling for the engine, and sufficient experience to do any required maintenance. But I missed a few things, like finding that generator was bad on the 20 odd mile trip to my slip and the engine died (I had a fully charged extra marine battery on hand along with a lot of tools, I anchored and was underway again in less than an hour).

The boat had a huge cockpit, a nice galley and dinette, enclosed head, and large vee berth. A couple could have lived aboard. We used that boat a lot, every weekend in summers for 5 years, and frequently in winter too. I did lots of rebuilding - e.g. the entire 10' X 10' cockpit making it self bailing for the rain and snow. There was lots of rewiring to do too, and discovering areas of core in the fiberglass deck that were the consistency of cigarette tobacco. I made sure that my rework never impeded my ability to power the boat out. My marina had requirements that boats had to be capable of being underway in four hours, and heavy repairs were discouraged. But I owned the slip which is entirely different than being a renter.

I kept the boat in the water (fresh water moorage) for just over 5 years, never hauling it out. I swam on the hull a couple of times every summer, scrubbing as much growth as possible. You can do that with a fiberglass hull in fresh water, a wooden hull is a different proposition. I was able to sell the boat for over half of what I paid for it. Back then there were a few similar boats in the marina with owners who didn't know what they were doing. I remember a couple of instances of those boats being submerged in their slips turning to sh!t.

[Bobcat]

Here's boat on Vancouver Island that runs and would be liveaboard

https://victoria.craigslist.org/boa/...587161244.html

And one in Victoria

https://victoria.craigslist.org/boa/...598919021.html

And if you want a ketch, this one is in Blaine

https://seattle.craigslist.org/see/b...596204359.html