Rural Oregon: good ol' boys

[David G]

I used to have a business based in Cottage Grove. No interactions with the police, iirc, but their 'economic development' dept. was an absolute fortress of good ol' boy backscratching...

The Register-Guard
Investigation into Cottage Grove police chief, captain found 'extremely unacceptable behavior'

Cottage Grove Police Chief Scott Shepherd and Capt. Conrad Gagner resigned days after receiving notice that findings in a preliminary investigation indicated “extremely unacceptable behavior and a total lack of control and leadership.”
Shepherd and Gagner resigned in October. They had been on paid administrative leave since July amid an investigation.
https://www.registerguard.com/story/...s/70004954007/

[Hugh MacD]

This is my surprised face.

[David G]

This is my surprised face.

Yeah, I bet! Cause there sure ain't gonna be any of THAT sort of behavior in Scapoose, St. Helens, Svenson, or Astoria!!!

[Jim Bow]

Yeah, I bet! Cause there sure ain't gonna be any of THAT sort of behavior in Scapoose, St. Helens, Svenson, or Astoria!!!

I recall 2011 (I think) we happened to be near Rainier OR, just after the police chief was killed by a petty thief. The entire area was in mourning. He was genuinely beloved.
Don't paint with too broad a brush.

[David G]

I recall 2011 (I think) we happened to be near Rainier OR, just after the police chief was killed by a petty thief. The entire area was in mourning. He was genuinely beloved.
Don't paint with too broad a brush.

Hey... I'm FROM that area. And Hugh knows it. I knew which towns to include and which to not <G>

[David W Pratt]

Story seemed to have a pretty mild catalog of 'extremely unacceptable behavior'

[Hugh MacD]

Columbia County right now isn't too bad. I think when Chief Painter was murdered (and he truly was one of the good ones) the local law enforcement took a bit of a turnaround. I got to serve on a Grand Jury and the case presentation was very much in order. I've served in Multnomah County and wondered where they were getting their case info from....
The big problem here (and most places, I understand) is drugs. The cartels use little towns like this as distribution points and the way the laws work it's a revolving door for dealers who get caught...we ship them back to Mexico and they just bring another load up. I'd personally vote for those chippers like in "FARGO", but life can't be all fun.

[ShorelineJohn]

I bet money they will both have jobs in law enforcement within two months, Idaho or Washington. Just getting them out of Cottage Grove is not good enough!

[Osborne Russell]

Local swine. That's democracy. Let's extol democracy. Let's enshrine democracy. Let's Capitalize Democracy. Let's export democracy.

F democracy. Long live the rights of man.

[George Jung]

Isn't democracy 'rights of man', OR? At least, in theory?

[Osborne Russell]

Isn't democracy 'rights of man', OR? At least, in theory?

No. Think of Athens under Pericles. Women, slaves, foreigners. Same in the United States. From day one (1789) the Equal Protection Clause stated that "No person shall ... be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law." It was understood that many people were not "persons" in this context.

Further, unless prevented, at some point the majority in a democracy will vote -- you may be certain --to abridge the rights of a minority.

[John Smith]

There's the America we were taught to be proud of, and there's the America we live in.

[David G]

There's the America we were taught to be proud of, and there's the America we live in.

Are you aware of ANY human institution where the actual lives up to the ideal? Don't think they exist.

You can either spend your time in naive amazement and ruction about that differential... or you can spend your energy doing something about it. I recommend people abandon the former and focus on the latter.

[TerryLL]

You can either spend your time in naive amazement and ruction about that differential... or you can spend your energy doing something about it. I recommend people abandon the former and focus on the latter.

There's really is something to be said for accepting the reality that American society in all its permutations is massively effed, and quietly living your own simple life to its fullest.

[David G]

There's really is something to be said for accepting the reality that American society in all its permutations is massively effed, and quietly living your own simple life to its fullest.

While I understand the urge... I would disagree.

I'm still of the opinion: If you're not part of the solution... you're part of the problem.

YMMV. My journey is not yours, and your constraints are not mine.

[TerryLL]

But you have to respect the police

I view the police as the ones who allow me to live my own simple life, but I live in a small rural community, and I am white. YMMV.

[TerryLL]

I'm still of the opinion: If you're not part of the solution... you're part of the problem.

Such an overused and brainless trope. I'm surprised that a world-changer like you would stoop to such drivel.

[TerryLL]

You live your own simple life through the good will and deeds of those friends and neighbors around you, maybe a bit of your own back bone, and luck to boot. If you ever have to actually "deal" with cops, you will find they aren't included in the list of good souls. At least that is what I've learned after earning a degree in criminal justice in college and later actual exposure to the CJ system in the US over 50 years. It gets worse all the time and I really don't see it getting better.

Well sir, I have had many interactions with police officers in north Idaho and with wildlife protection officers in Alaska. I hold them all in high regard. I'm aware of the outrage over police practices in the cities, but that has not been my experience in the places I have lived. I did live in Seattle until 1984 and never had a problem.

[David G]

Such an overused and brainless trope. I'm surprised that a world-changer like you would stoop to such drivel.

Brainless trope? Again we disagree. I see it as elegant shorthand for an essential truth. A truth as old as time. Was your leap to unwarranted snark & insult a sign that you actually do too?

Would you prefer that truth in a different form?

“Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter.” -- Martin Luther King Jr.


For evil to flourish, it only requires good men to do nothing. -- Simon Wiesenthal


“In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends.” -- Martin Luther King Jr.

[sonofswen]

Well sir, I have had many interactions with police officers in north Idaho and with wildlife protection officers in Alaska. I hold them all in high regard. I'm aware of the outrage over police practices in the cities, but that has not been my experience in the places I have lived. I did live in Seattle until 1984 and never had a problem.

You might want to look around a little more. What those cops did in Cottage Grove is behaviour that can be found in may places in this country. I can give you a source on that if you wish, but here is a rundown of SOME of the stuff they did..Still hold All cops in high regard?

The Notice of Potential Termination issued to former captain Gagner said the investigation found numerous examples of unprofessional conduct. Among several specific examples of misconduct, Gagner is alleged to have:
• Used racial slurs including the “N”-word, as well as homophobic language on a semi-frequent basis in the workplace
• Placed his genitals on a sandwich, taken a picture of it, then sent that picture to an officer eating a similar sandwich
• Placed the cell phone of a female city employee on his crotch on the outside of his pants and rubbed it around his crotch area while laughing, in front of that female employee and in the presence of the chief.
Gagner is also alleged to have posted videos from police surveillance videos on his TikTok account, said he would remove those videos when asked, and as of the date the notice was issued, had not removed those videos.
The notice also said Gagner did not ensure a professional and efficient workplace and was neglectful in his duties. Examples include:

• Failing to act when informed that some CGPD members may have drove home from a December 2021 party while intoxicated

• Failing to take action when the wife of a CGPD employee came into the station and began throwing items in the employee’s office, causing a major disturbance
• Allowing officers to wear ballistic vests with expired manufacturer’s warranties
Former captain Gagner is also alleged in the notice to have flouted city jail protocols. The notice lists an incident where the captain held someone in jail who had been sentenced to time already served. They were eventually released when they swallowed a spoon and had to be sent to a nearby hospital, the notice said. Gagner is also alleged to have released prisoners in conflict with the municipal judge’s sentences. Captain Scott Shepherd, as the police chief and therefore the person ultimately responsible for the jail, is also implicated in allowing Gagner’s actions to continue.
A similar Notice of Termination was sent to former captain Scott Shepherd which notes several instances of unprofessional conduct on Shepherd’s part. It noted that Gagner was Shepherd’s direct subordinate, and said Shepherd did nothing to curb Gagner’s own unprofessional behavior, which implied some degree of toleration of that behavior.
The notice also mentioned an incident from 2011, where Shepherd, then a sergeant, pulled pubic hair from his pants and put those hairs on the phone of another officer, in front of a third officer. In the other alleged incident from 2011, Shepherd allegedly used both hands to slap the buttocks of a female CGPD staffer while she was bent over a computer, then told another officer who was present something to the effect of “yeah, and her husband is OK with it.”

[wizbang 13]

You might want to look around a little more. What those cops did in Cottage Grove is behaviour that can be found in may places in this country. I can give you a source on that if you wish, but here is a rundown of SOME of the stuff they did..Still hold All cops in high regard?

The Notice of Potential Termination issued to former captain Gagner said the investigation found numerous examples of unprofessional conduct. Among several specific examples of misconduct, Gagner is alleged to have:
• Used racial slurs including the “N”-word, as well as homophobic language on a semi-frequent basis in the workplace
• Placed his genitals on a sandwich, taken a picture of it, then sent that picture to an officer eating a similar sandwich
• Placed the cell phone of a female city employee on his crotch on the outside of his pants and rubbed it around his crotch area while laughing, in front of that female employee and in the presence of the chief.
Gagner is also alleged to have posted videos from police surveillance videos on his TikTok account, said he would remove those videos when asked, and as of the date the notice was issued, had not removed those videos.
The notice also said Gagner did not ensure a professional and efficient workplace and was neglectful in his duties. Examples include:

• Failing to act when informed that some CGPD members may have drove home from a December 2021 party while intoxicated

• Failing to take action when the wife of a CGPD employee came into the station and began throwing items in the employee’s office, causing a major disturbance
• Allowing officers to wear ballistic vests with expired manufacturer’s warranties
Former captain Gagner is also alleged in the notice to have flouted city jail protocols. The notice lists an incident where the captain held someone in jail who had been sentenced to time already served. They were eventually released when they swallowed a spoon and had to be sent to a nearby hospital, the notice said. Gagner is also alleged to have released prisoners in conflict with the municipal judge’s sentences. Captain Scott Shepherd, as the police chief and therefore the person ultimately responsible for the jail, is also implicated in allowing Gagner’s actions to continue.
A similar Notice of Termination was sent to former captain Scott Shepherd which notes several instances of unprofessional conduct on Shepherd’s part. It noted that Gagner was Shepherd’s direct subordinate, and said Shepherd did nothing to curb Gagner’s own unprofessional behavior, which implied some degree of toleration of that behavior.
The notice also mentioned an incident from 2011, where Shepherd, then a sergeant, pulled pubic hair from his pants and put those hairs on the phone of another officer, in front of a third officer. In the other alleged incident from 2011, Shepherd allegedly used both hands to slap the buttocks of a female CGPD staffer while she was bent over a computer, then told another officer who was present something to the effect of “yeah, and her husband is OK with it.”

dude, this a former cop or a former president?
Sex jokes relieve stress .
did he murder anyone?

[Garret]

So, the list is:

• Gagner’s use of homophobic and racial slurs in the workplace and Shepherd’s failure to address it.
• Issues with Gagner’s use of social media that Shepherd failed to address.
• Sexual harassment and other unprofessional conduct and behavior.
• Failures within the city jail.
• Failure to assist outside law enforcement agencies.

Isn't that pretty much normal behavior in a large number of police forces in the US? Actually, I'll guess that there are many departments who would be proud to have so few real issues.

Like TerryLL, I had high regard for the State Police in my state. However, it may have been an ignorance is bliss situation, as it turns out they have major problems.

Of course there are good cops. Unfortunately, there are plenty of bad ones & the good ones don't seem to be able to do much about it.

[L.W. Baxter]

cops are just people. look at the people, there's your cops.

we are fooked.

[David G]

Cops are just people is correct. And they behave as people always have when their jobs leave them with too much power/responsibility & too little oversight. The distribution gets shifted toward troglodyte/bully.

[sandtown]

You can either spend your time in naive amazement and ruction about that differential... or you can spend your energy doing something about it. I recommend people abandon the former and focus on the latter.

I am with you on that one, and so is Vets For Peace

[L.W. Baxter]

Not really. They might start that way, except that cops as a whole are not just a representative slice of the general population, to begin with. They self-select as those who admire and aspire to positions of authority and power. They self-select for wearing a badge and a uniform and side-arm, and a military style rank structure. They come predisposed to mete out justice to perps. Then they go to training to get schooled in all that. And the cop culture, from the general awareness in the general population, witness TV and movies, to the academies and training, it all reinforces the 'us v them' mentality and the notion of the brotherhood and the thin blue line. Cops are not just people; they only start out that way.

We'd actually, arguably, be better off if the cops were just people. Frinstance, if we had a general recruitment or draft, and the cop forces were comprised of not only the wannabes but other citizens without those various predispositions, and if the academies were used to training for the actual job and not to include indoctrinating the wannabes into the brotherhood.

It's the criminals, the perps, the drug dealers, the thieves, the rapists and murderers and kidnappers, the black mailers and loan sharks, terrorists, thugs and biker gangs and drug cartels who are just people. And that's why we're in danger of being fooked. We aren't actually fooked, not until no one cares enough to do anthing about it anymore. Then we're fooked. Of course it looks like that a good part of the time, but that may be only because the evening news isn't filled with a representation of the general public, most, overwhelmingly most, of whom are doing nothing newsworthy, nothing crimnal, and don't need arresting or incarcerating.

What we want now is a holistic solution to the problem of bad cops. It isn't just a few bad apples. It's a bad apple orchard. And a bad apple grocery and a bad apple pie and justice system. Not 'defunding' but re-thinking and rebuilding. Purge the lifers and anyone with anything questionable in their record, and do the same throughout the system, in the criminal justice courses at universities and JCs and at the police academies, too.

i dunno. the o.p. story is about people being dishonorable. and honor is dead, everywhere i look.

as for general issues of police brutality, excessive force, racial prejudice etc? police forces are a primary battleground in our culture war. witness "blue lives matter" and so on.

in other words, the problem is not in the individual cop or isolated in police forces. the fight over the nature of law enforcement goes all the way to the bottom of the ever widening chasm between two sides of a totally fooked society.

[Jack Loudon]

Cops have to deal with the worst part of humanity. They routinely get threatened, screamed at, spit on, puked on. I have seen all of this here in Seattle. This can cultivate in them a cynical hardened view of people. I've lived in this city since 1976 and ride my bike through all neighborhoods and have never witnessed any bad behavior by cops, but have often seen bad behavior against cops by citizens. Without their presence some of our sketchier neighborhoods would devolve into truly scary places.

It's a dirty dangerous job that none of us here would want to do, yet it needs to be done. And of course there is room for improvement. Some (many) cops are a$$holes, and the bad cops need to be punished. But as a whole I think we need to cut them some slack.

[Jack Loudon]

No. Cops should not need to have some slack. They deal with dangerous people and get abused for just being a cop. That's too bad, and I mean that sincerely not sarcastically, but it is not justification for doing anything but righteous cop work. Even if it is only a few bad ones, even if they do have to deal with being yelled at or spit on, they still have to follow the letter and the spirit of the law, to serve and protect, without abusing their authority or power, without exception. We need to be able to expect that, every time, in every cop on every force. If you want slack, go be a psychiatrist or a sex worker.

It's a tough row to hoe. And I agree most wouldn't want it or stay with it if they tried. But the ones who do, the ones who carry the badge and the gun have to know that they, more than anyone else, need to be beyond reproach in the carrying out of their duties. Or get into another line of work, where you can get some slack if you need it. And that's why cops are not just people. Understanding how tough it is and how degrading it can be and how pernicious the lure to overstep authority doesn't count as an excuse for it.

It's idealism vs realism. You are asking for the very finest of human qualities in a job that is dangerous, dirty, and often degrading. And the pay's not that great either. The people that would make good cops have more lucrative, safer, and overall more rewarding careers to choose from.

[David G]

It's idealism vs realism. You are asking for the very finest of human qualities in a job that is dangerous, dirty, and often degrading. And the pay's not that great either. The people that would make good cops have more lucrative, safer, and overall more rewarding careers to choose from.

However true what you say is -- there is also a structural problem. The cops currently have too much power with too little supervision. And they are largely (totally?) resisting mightily any efforts at providing independent oversight.

[Osborne Russell]

It's idealism vs realism. You are asking for the very finest of human qualities in a job that is dangerous, dirty, and often degrading. And the pay's not that great either. The people that would make good cops have more lucrative, safer, and overall more rewarding careers to choose from.

Yep.

Police business is a hell of a problem. It's good deal like politics. It calls for the highest type of men, and there's nothing in it to attract the highest type of men. So we have to work with what we get.

Raymond Chandler, The Lady In The Lake (1943)

In Chandler's stories there are many types of cops. Some rather chilling fellows. Sadistic and cunning. A couple of straight ones that come off as heroic by comparison. Some are burned out. Some are just going to work every day.

But the fact is that it offers a refuge for the sadistic and cunning. When did a Dilbert character ever kneel on someone's neck?

[Dave Wright]

In Chandler's stories there are many types of cops. Some rather chilling fellows. Sadistic and cunning. A couple of straight ones that come off as heroic by comparison. Some are burned out. Some are just going to work every day.

Chandler's Marlowe is always smarter than the cops. Chandler's often negative assessment of the cops is from the '40's and '50's. If his assessments are accurate back then, I would wager that the cops are much better now. Most of my interactions with cops over the past fifteen years have been in charitable activities, i.e., working alongside off duty, out of uniform cops in a kitchen. No problem whatsoever, indeed those cops are just people, and with perhaps a greater commitment to the good of the community.

[David G]

Chandler's Marlowe is always smarter than the cops. Chandler's often negative assessment of the cops is from the '40's and '50's. If his assessments are accurate back then, I would wager that the cops are much better now. Most of my interactions with cops over the past fifteen years have been in charitable activities, i.e., working alongside off duty, out of uniform cops in a kitchen. No problem whatsoever, indeed those cops are just people, and with perhaps a greater commitment to the good of the community.

Cops are just people is correct. And they behave as people always have when their jobs leave them with too much power/responsibility & too little oversight. The distribution gets shifted toward troglodyte/bully.

Just people, indeed. And people whose jobs are setting them up for failure. Whose culture - a result of the way the job is currently structured - is allowing the worst of them to exercise their demons.