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Thread: Child marriage is legal?

  1. #1
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    Default Child marriage is legal?

    And the GOP wants to keep it that way?

    From Newsweek:

    Republicans Make a Case for Child Marriage

    Days before the close of the 2023 session, members of West Virginia's House of Delegates voted to enact a bill banning child marriage in the state.

    But it wasn't unanimous. When the bill moved on to the Senate, just over one dozen members of the House voted against it.

    Child marriage has long been taboo in the United States, but it's still legal in at least a dozen states across the country. While more recent figures are unavailable, the Pew Research Center said West Virginia had the nation's highest rate of child marriages in 2014, with five-year averages of 7.1 marriages for every 1,000 children between 15 and 17.

    And most were girls. According to state health statistics from 2015 to 2019, 259 girls and 52 boys under 18 were married in West Virginia. Some had been married more than once.

    Legislators defended allowing minors to marry for a myriad of reasons, including concerns expressed on the House floor that teens who want to get married will seek a remedy out of state and that limits on marriage with a parent's consent were arbitrary and taking something away.

    "The only thing it's going to do is cause harm and trouble in young people's lives," Harrison County Delegate Keith Marple, a Republican and the lone person to speak against the state bill to ban child marriage, said on the House floor ahead of the vote last Wednesday.

    Child marriage is technically illegal in most of the country: Almost everywhere in the United States, the legal marriage age in statutes is 18. However, many states—West Virginia included—had statutes allowing children as young as 16 in some jurisdictions to get married with their parents' permission.

    The West Virginia bill is an outright ban on all marriages under 18. When the House advanced it to the Senate with a resounding 84 votes in support, just over 12 Republicans voted against it.

    But West Virginia is by no means unique. A more modest proposal in Wyoming that passed the House of Representatives faced pushback from the state Republican Party, which cautioned that there were potential "constitutional concerns" with the bill that could restrict people's rights and disincentivize expecting young parents from staying together for their children. More than two dozen people voted against it in the House, and seven opposed the bill in the Senate.

    In West Virginia, opponents of the legislation said that an outright ban on children under 18 marrying was overly restrictive and ignored the social norms in more rural parts of the state. Some who voted against it said that teenage marriages are commonplace where they grew up, while others expressed their belief that some teenagers are mature enough to make their own decisions about marriage.

    "West Virginia is a socially conservative and traditional state, in my observation," Republican Delegate Jim Butler, who voted against the bill, told Newsweek. "Many middle age and elderly people that I know were married when younger than 18 and are still married many years later."

    "People simply grow up differently," he said later. "Some 16-year-olds, for example, are much more mature than others."

    Others argued that teenagers younger than 18 are able to drive, work and sign up for military duty with the approval of their parents and therefore should be able to marry. Banning marriage for anyone under 18, they said, was too restrictive.

    "I would prefer that people wait until they are of the legal age of 18 to marry," GOP Delegate Doug Smith, another of the bill's opponents, told Newsweek.

    "However, I believe that there should be exceptions for age 16 or 17, with parental consent. Heck, you can join the military at 17 with parental consent, but with this bill you can't get married until you are 18. I feel that there could be other situations that would warrant an exception," Smith said.

    Opponents of child marriage argue that this represents an incorrect view of what actually occurs in child marriage.

    In most marriages reported nationwide involving children under 18, the children were girls, a trend that anti-child-marriage groups say represents the true function of child marriage: not for young couples to elope but for statutory rapists to marry their victims with the cover of the victim's parents.

    And for those younger than 18, it can be very difficult to exit that arrangement, even if it takes a turn for the worse.

    "Marriage before 18 means that this minor—who is almost always a girl—is much more likely to experience physical and sexual violence within that marriage," Fraidy Reiss, founder and executive director of the anti-child-marriage organization Unchained at Last, told Newsweek in an interview last month. "And it's very likely that this child, probably a girl, is going to need a way out. And when they do, it's very, very difficult for them to get out."

    An Unchained at Last study found that between 2000 and 2018, some 300,000 children as young as 10 were legally married in the U.S.

    Asked whether he believed a parent's permission was sufficient protection against young girls being coerced into marriage, Butler said he did. He also said he believed instances of coercion were rare.

    "It is possible that they could be coerced, but I think that would be very rare, and making it illegal isn't necessarily going to prevent it in every case either," he said. "As for coercion, adults can be coerced too. Within the legislation that was passed, there is a section that basically concedes that these marriages, even if not legally recognized by the state, will take place."

    He continued: "Would parental consent stop coercion? I think it would in most cases, and most parents would not sign off on their young adult child marrying a person who is much older or who has bad intent."
    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...cfd95c37&ei=12
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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Child marriage is legal?

    Life - is like quantum mechanics - weirder than you thought.

    Until recently in all of the UK it was possible to get married at sixteen - now a change in the law makes marriage under eighteen illegal in England and Wales - but Scotland remains at sixteen.....

    Should keep Gretna busy.
    I'd much rather lay in my bunk all freakin day lookin at Youtube videos .

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Child marriage is legal?

    Kind of cherry picking a little are we......



    The following are states that have NO minimum age:
    • 7 states have no official minimum age, but still require either parental consent, court approval or both: California, Michigan, Mississippi, New Mexico, Oklahoma, West Virginia, and Washington. Aren't Washington, Michigan and California considered pretty strong Democrat states? New Mexico is maybe a little purple? So of the seven states only two of them would be considered solid GOP states.


    The bill that was voted down wanted to make the minimum age be 18.

    Only 7 states have a minimum age this high:




    I'm not saying that I think it would be a good idea for a 16 year old to get married - even with parental approval , but if California and Washington have no minimum age why single out West Virginia for refusing to enact an age limit so high that it only exists in seven other states?

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    Default Re: Child marriage is legal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boatbum View Post
    Kind of cherry picking a little are we......
    I'm willing to focus on those states that discuss it and reject it and assume that those who have not discussed it need a wake up call. I don't see California, Michigan and Washington openly rejecting a minimum age of 18 if it were brought up and it should be. Mississippi, New Mexico, and Oklahoma I'm less certain about.

    But you do raise an interesting and disturbing statistic.
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  5. #5
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    Default Re: Child marriage is legal?

    In Washington, the minimum age to marry is 17 with parental consent. RCW 26.04.210(1)

    And you can't marry your first cousin or sibling....but you can do so in 24 states.
    What's not on a boat costs nothing, weighs nothing, and can't break

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    Default Re: Child marriage is legal?

    US citizens cannot enter a legally binding contract under the age of 18, so how do they manage to run the marital home below that age?
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: Child marriage is legal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    US citizens cannot enter a legally binding contract under the age of 18, so how do they manage to run the marital home below that age?
    Marriage is a domestic law and contacts are civil law. Two entirely different animals. At least here in the US

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    Default Re: Child marriage is legal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boatbum View Post
    Marriage is a domestic law and contacts are civil law. Two entirely different animals. At least here in the US
    That does not answer my question.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: Child marriage is legal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bobcat View Post
    In Washington, the minimum age to marry is 17 with parental consent. RCW 26.04.210(1)

    And you can't marry your first cousin or sibling....but you can do so in 24 states.
    Arkansas again?

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    Default Re: Child marriage is legal?

    It's 12 for girls and 14 for boys in Massachusetts , pretty disturbing all around.

    https://worldpopulationreview.com/st...child-marriage

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    Default Re: Child marriage is legal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    That does not answer my question.
    Hi Nick.

    I think it does answer your question. Contacts are covered under civil law and state that you must be at least 18 to enter into a contact. Domestic laws have different rules among which is the ability to marry when under the age of 18 and in some states considerably less than 18. You are evaluating Domestic law with a Civil law lens. They are different.

    To complicate it further, Each state has its own laws, and 49 states are based on Common Law while one is based on Napoleonic Law.

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  12. #12
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    Default Re: Child marriage is legal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hwyl View Post
    It's 12 for girls and 14 for boys in Massachusetts , pretty disturbing all around.

    https://worldpopulationreview.com/st...child-marriage
    Apparently, the law changed recently. Effective July 1, 2022, no one under 18 may marry in Massachusetts.

    https://www.mass.gov/info-details/ma...about-marriage

    https://www.tahirih.org/news/massach...hild-marriage/
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  13. #13
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    Default Re: Child marriage is legal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hwyl View Post
    It's 12 for girls and 14 for boys in Massachusetts , pretty disturbing all around.

    https://worldpopulationreview.com/st...child-marriage
    Probably a left-over from the Mayflower crowd...

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Child marriage is legal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boatbum View Post
    Hi Nick.

    I think it does answer your question. Contacts are covered under civil law and state that you must be at least 18 to enter into a contact. Domestic laws have different rules among which is the ability to marry when under the age of 18 and in some states considerably less than 18. You are evaluating Domestic law with a Civil law lens. They are different.

    To complicate it further, Each state has its own laws, and 49 states are based on Common Law while one is based on Napoleonic Law.

    - Mr. Bum
    The question was, if you cannot contract for a loan, mortgage, rent a house or whatever, how can you set up home and ruin your household?
    It is not a difficult question.

    Although the answer may be.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  15. #15
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    Default Re: Child marriage is legal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    The question was, if you cannot contract for a loan, mortgage, rent a house or whatever, how can you set up home and ruin your household?
    It is not a difficult question.

    Although the answer may be.
    Minors set up homes all the time in the US. They don't need to sign a contract for that. That aside, it has nothing to do with the ability to get married.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boatbum View Post
    Minors set up homes all the time in the US. They don't need to sign a contract for that. That aside, it has nothing to do with the ability to get married.
    OK, where do they live? With their parents. Who feeds them? Mum and dad?
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: Child marriage is legal?

    A third world state inside a first world state……………………..

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    OK, where do they live? With their parents. Who feeds them? Mum and dad?
    Some kids leave home before their 18th birthday. A good friend moved out of her parent's house when she was 16, completed high school and supported herself with an after-school job. She would find owner-occupied rental (mostly cheap efficiency apartments) and the landlords would accept cash. Actually they preferred cash. There were no contracts- if you didn't pay your rent you would just come home to find your stuff on the sidewalk. In other instances they would share an apartment with an older person who was the tenant of record.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by skuthorp View Post
    A third world state inside a first world state……………………..
    Not all parents are good parents. Some parents remarry and the kids have abusive step parents. Some have bio-parents that are abusive. And some get kicked out of the house for habitually ignoring rules about curfew or drugs. I don't believe that the US is the sole place where you see this, but it wouldn't surprise me to learn that it happens here more than other countries.

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    Default Re: Child marriage is legal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    US citizens cannot enter a legally binding contract under the age of 18, so how do they manage to run the marital home below that age?
    Look closely at marriage in Anglo-American Jurisprudence. We all think of it from a contract perspective, but that is erroneous. No doubt various state laws are written regarding marriage as if it were contract. But it is actually rooted in the status of the participants. Unlike the free voluntary exchange in contracts, the participants in a marriage are limited in what changes or modifications to their status they can voluntarily agree to or enforce. If you look closely, you can see that it is the same as slavery, not contract. A benevolent master can voluntarily treat his slave as if the slave has earned privileges and benefits, but none of that actually changes the slave's status as property, not a voluntary participant. So if something happens to the master, the slave can't enforce those privileges in court. The state defines the status and rules, not the parties as in contracts. And like slavery, consent is not a necessary element to the status of marriage American legislatures have largely imported from the Bible.

  21. #21
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    Default Re: Child marriage is legal?

    Quote Originally Posted by skuthorp View Post
    A third world state inside a first world state……………………..
    Welcome to my life!
    Skip

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  22. #22
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    Default Re: Child marriage is legal?

    It looks like child marriage will continue to be legal in West Virginia:

    Bill To Ban Child Marriage In West Virginia Defeated By Republicans

    CHARLESTON, W.Va. (AP) — A bill that would have prohibited minors from getting married in West Virginia was defeated Wednesday night in a legislative committee.

    The Republican-dominated Senate Judiciary Committee rejected the bill on a 9-8 vote, a week after it passed the House of Delegates.

    The vote came shortly after the bill’s main sponsor, Democratic Del. Kayla Young of Kanawha County, testified briefly before the committee. She said that since 2000 there have been more than 3,600 marriages in the state involving one or more children.

    Currently, children can marry as young as 16 in West Virginia with parental consent. Anyone younger than that also must get a judge’s waiver.

    “For now, there will be no floor for the age of marriage in WV, endangering our kids,” Young wrote on Twitter after the vote.

    In a rebuke, Cabell County Democratic Sen. Mike Woelfel reminded the committee after the vote that Wednesday was International Women’s Day.

    Some of the bill’s opponents have argued that teenage marriages are a part of life in West Virginia.

    Kanawha County Republican Sen. Mike Stuart, a former federal prosecutor who sided with the majority, said his vote “wasn’t a vote against women.” He said his mother was married when she was 16, and “six months later, I came along. I’m the luckiest guy in the world.”

    The bill would have established that 18 is the age of consent and removed the ability of a minor to obtain consent through their parents, legal guardians, or by court petition. Existing legal marriages, including those done in other states, would have been unaffected.

    According to the nonprofit group Unchained At Last, which seeks to end forced and child marriage, seven states have set the minimum age for marriage at 18, all since 2018. Supporters of such legislation say it reduces domestic violence, unwanted pregnancies and improves the lives of teens.

    Although recent figures are unavailable, according to the Pew Research Center, West Virginia had the highest rate of child marriages among the states in 2014, when the state’s five-year average was 7.1 marriages for every 1,000 children ages 15 to 17.
    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...481a945c&ei=10
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    Default Re: Child marriage is legal?

    Colorado law statute §18-3-402, C.R.S., the “Romeo and Juliet law” or “close-in-age exemption", states that minors under 14 are allowed to have consensual sex with partners less than 4 years older. Additionally, those over 14 years old may have sex with partners less than 10 years older.

  24. #24
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    ^ Wow! This thread has been a real eye-opener for me.
    "Where you live in the world should not determine whether you live in the world." - Bono

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    Default Re: Child marriage is legal?

    Does it change any of your previous set beliefs?

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by LOKI View Post
    Does it change any of your previous set beliefs?
    Me? Yes. I thought that the idea that minors should be able to marry was an outdated hillbilly custom, but I now find it disturbingly more common than I thought. It convinced me that my country is even more primitive than I had imagined.
    "Where you live in the world should not determine whether you live in the world." - Bono

    "Live in such a way that you would not be ashamed to sell your parrot to the town gossip." - Will Rogers

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  27. #27
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    Default Re: Child marriage is legal?

    Welcome to the real world!

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by LOKI View Post
    Welcome to the real world!
    I guess I like to think that the world can be a better place and it still surprises me when it fails.

    If recognizing the problems in the world is an necessary step in creating change, the first step must be knowing what you want to be true. So if I am not yet living in the real world, at least I am getting a better view of the world we need to create. I'm not inclined to feel bad about that.
    "Where you live in the world should not determine whether you live in the world." - Bono

    "Live in such a way that you would not be ashamed to sell your parrot to the town gossip." - Will Rogers

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  29. #29
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    Default Re: Child marriage is legal?

    The state I am in now has had a long term low age for marriage supposedly based on the Bible. A previous woman Democrat Governor tried to raise the legal age for marriage but was unsuccessful. A historically Abolitionist state, it has arguably the most contract influenced marriage state law, i.e. people have made and enforced prenuptial agreement terms here that would be forbidden elsewhere, like California. So one can say it has the greatest extremes of both voluntary exchange and unconsensual unions. Mostly it doesn't become an issue because the state invests disproportionately per capita in education compared to historically Southern states.
    Last edited by Landrith; 03-09-2023 at 11:22 PM.

  30. #30
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    Default Re: Child marriage is legal?

    Get married in a rush so you can have sex before you run off to war, but you can't have a glass of champaign at your wedding.
    It's all fun and games until Darth Vader comes.

  31. #31
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    Default Re: Child marriage is legal?

    Ever read "The Beans of Egypt, Maine"? by Caroline Chute.
    Parts of Maine are as backwards/ inbred as "Ayntree, Georgia".

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