Philip Bolger design Martha Jane?

[Johan R]

Nope, that is the standard 15ft4" but with a slightly raised cabin. I have one nearly finished in my shed, but a bit longer (and sharper)at the bow.
A2

Came up in a search as a "Long".....no worries, still a pretty boat, and it looks a damn site bigger than a West Wight Potter even if its only a foot longer. We need to see yours, sounds like your modifications will have taken the edge off.

[Paul Pless]

Name a boat design for dinghy cruising marketed to amateur home builders in the U.S. that went on to become a production boat.

sea pearl

began life seventy years ago as l francis herreshoff's carpenter design

[Johan R]

[QUOTE=WI-Tom;6817309]

Did you miss that I mentioned small boats and dingy cruising specifically?

Yes, you added that later.

Name a boat design for dinghy cruising marketed to amateur home builders in the U.S. that went on to become a production boat

.

San Francisco Pelican.

[Paul Pless]

That's more than fair--I did mention I was relatively uninformed. But very few designs in the U.S. for backyard boats get picked up as production boats, and perhaps European/Australian designs have that happen more frequently?

Other than the Bolger Dovekie, and more recently John Welsford's Scamp, I can't think of other amateur designs that have gone on to production status.

dozens of designs by lfh and the atkins that were originally published as how to build articles in boating magazines have gone on to become production boats, in both wood and glass

notably, the h28 and rozinante from
herreshoff and various eric derivatives from atkins

bill garden designed the eel for home builders and its been an on again off again production boat in wood and glass

lyle hess' pilot cutters were originally for home builders and entered series production in glass

any number of catboats fit the bill

[Johan R]

bill garden designed the eel for home builders and its been an on again off again production boat in wood and glass

Was that a significant design? Bolger did a copy of that.

[Johan R]

[Paul Pless]

john gardner's peapods and whitehalls first drawn by him (from traditional fishing boats) for amateur construction have been built as production glass boats

[Paul Pless]

the snipe and the lightning were both originally drawn for homebuilt wooden construction

[Johan R]

Pride of ownership type boat.

[Paul Pless]

chuck paine's small double enders originally for home builders now built in glass



74B71FB8-91D9-4FA4-B6BA-F688FDC560B2.jpeg

[Paul Pless]

caulkins bartender

originally for home builders

entered production in wood, glass, and aluminium

even ordered by the coast guard as a motor life boat

A00E6399-CF01-4240-9A2A-4502110A2307.png

47B5FE00-2645-4952-8279-6F72706DD687.jpeg

[Paul Pless]

thunderbird, developed for pacific fir plywood manufacturers association for a homebuilt plywood cruiser racer
subsequently built as a production boat in ply, effglass, and aluminium

8DB5F4F5-BD48-4131-BE99-CF6DC2B92213.jpg

[Paul Pless]

i can go on if you like

[Johan R]

thunderbird, developed for pacific fir plywood manufacturers association for a homebuilt plywood cruiser racer
subsequently built as a production boat in ply, effglass, and aluminium

8DB5F4F5-BD48-4131-BE99-CF6DC2B92213.jpg

I mentioned that one......though looking at that, i do not see the Muscadet likeness......chines are different.

[Johan R]

Jessie Cooper. Looks much better with a normal stem.

[Johan R]

Red Zinger. Ordinary looking to some of his others.

[Johan R]

Another oddity.

[Paul Pless]

beyond boxes, he designed some truly beautiful and elegant boats

[Paul Pless]

hms surprise from the movie master and commander

[Andrew2]

Came up in a search as a "Long".....no worries, still a pretty boat, and it looks a damn site bigger than a West Wight Potter even if its only a foot longer. We need to see yours, sounds like your modifications will have taken the edge off.

Yes, no square sections in mine. Friend in the US built one a while back and it intrigued me, but while it is a fun (& cheap) build, I couldn't quite cope with the 'square' lines. I saw that photo quite late and grafted the raised cabin on.

[Andrew2]

Jessie Cooper. Looks much better with a normal stem.

Isn't the one behind also by Bolger? Name escapes me at the mo.

[Johan R]

That looks like a Russian submarine behind that square rigger?

Yes, im still looking through his work, not all square, odd looking and not all amateur friendly. Niche boats for specific use and areas by some looks, and nothing wrong with that.

For someone who wants a shallow draft boat with a good view outside, that Martha Jane ticks a lot of boxes, more so than the Birdwatcher for the same purpose. The MJ seems to be lighter than a Chebbacco due to water ballast, and no keel. Intriguing design.

[Johan R]

Isn't the one behind also by Bolger? Name escapes me at the mo.

I think it looks like one of the French guy Daniel Bombigher (?) Not a St Valery.

[Johan R]

beyond boxes, he designed some truly beautiful and elegant boats

There is a list of designs with no pictures. Is that the Low Cost Ocean Crosser? Curves in all the right places. I go up rivers that it wouldnt be able to turn around in.....sadly.

[John Meachen]

Good point. I know Jack Holt only because of the Mirror dinghy. I am woefully ignorant of designers outside the U.S. Other than Francois Vivier, I might not know any at all. But I can see why, in a U.S.-based platform with a large U.S. audience, ignorance of Phil Bolger might strike some as amusing. The same might happen if I posted on the DCA about "What's this weird Wayfarer design? I've never heard of it."

But I don't think you get the full picture if with the "how many boats are in existence" comparison. Bolger drew lots of designs specifically for amateur, one-off construction. My sense (uninformed as it is) is that designers outside the U.S. are often creating designs intended for production boat status. The only Bolger designs I know that were adapted to production boat status was the Dovekie. So of course there won't be as many boats built--and it would be very difficult to track how many were built.

Tom

Happy to help Jack Holt become a little better known; he mainly designed plywood boats for home builders and they built them in their thousands.Just to begin with there are well over 14,000 of his GP 14's afloat,22,000 Enterprises,8,000 Herons,2,000 Hornets,5,000 Solos,2,000 Streakers,9,000 Cadets and 70,000 or so Mirrors.He was behind many other boats too.But back to Bolger,who hardly ever gets a mention for the very pretty Spur 2.

[Paul Pless]

Happy to help Jack Holt become a little better known; he mainly designed plywood boats for home builders and they built them in their thousands.Just to begin with there are well over 14,000 of his GP 14's afloat,22,000 Enterprises,8,000 Herons,2,000 Hornets,5,000 Solos,2,000 Streakers,9,000 Cadets and 70,000 or so Mirrors.He was behind many other boats too.

quickly now. . .

to the planeing dinghy thread!

[WI-Tom]

dozens of designs by lfh and the atkins that were originally published as how to build articles in boating magazines have gone on to become production boats, in both wood and glass

notably, the h28 and rozinante from
herreshoff and various eric derivatives from atkins

bill garden designed the eel for home builders and its been an on again off again production boat in wood and glass

lyle hess' pilot cutters were originally for home builders and entered series production in glass

any number of catboats fit the bill

OK, thanks--more than I knew about, obviously. Is it the case that more UK designs have made the jump to production boat from homebuilt?

Another point: I am definitely operating from a small boat bias (small as in sailing dinghy size). I can think of precious few small boats that have made that jump from amateur to production boat in the U.S. Scamp. The Gig Harbor Melonseed Skiff, maybe (not sure if that was a new design or not). Did the SF Pelican ever become a production boat? Then the Snipe and Lightning as you mentioned.

Now compare that to Johan's list of Jack Holt's designs alone, without considering other UK designers. It seems plain to me that there is a far more robust market for dinghies and dinghy cruisers in the UK vs. in the U.S. But again, maybe it's different on the coasts. It seems pretty true of the Midwest.

Another point: I know far more about small boat designs for amateur construction from plans than I do about production boats. The marked for production boats in Wisconsin is basically bass boats, pontoon boats, and ski boats. That's it. (Slight exaggeration maybe but not much).

Last point: I really don't know much at all about production boats!

Tom

[Woxbox]

Ian Farrier's Trailer-Tri trimarans were first designed as plywood home builds, and later went into production by Corsair Marine (of which Farrier was a partner.) Many iterations followed.

[WI-Tom]

Ian Farrier's Trailer-Tri trimarans were first designed as plywood home builds, and later went into production by Corsair Marine (of which Farrier was a partner.) Many iterations followed.

Not exactly a dinghy cruiser, though, is it?

Tom

[Breakaway]

The iconic and ubiquitous Sunfish began life as a kit boat sold to backyard builders.
Kevin

[amish rob]

8D5975E7-1810-4640-910E-A760AB47A633.jpg
Gratuitous Mirror art.

[Paul Pless]

^ gibbs?

[Woxbox]

Fair enough, Tom.

But the very first ply tri Farrier sold was an 18' boat, and the very first production boat was a glass development of that boat. Not sail and oar boats, but just as easily transported as the other under-20' boats under discussion.

[amish rob]

^ gibbs?

I think his is a “plain old” 14.

[WI-Tom]

Well, after many responses from many corners about homebuilt-to-production-boat examples, I will sum up my current position on the question with this restatement of a previous claim, which I think most would agree with me on:

I really, really know very little about production boats. And everyone else seems to know a lot more.

My entry to sailing, and indeed virtually my entire involvement in sailing (other than a few years sailing with my brother on his Santana 21 (I think) keelboat, and a few times sailing Sunfish in the Marshall Islands, and 2-3 days worth of sailing Hobie 14s), has been connected to home-built wooden boats. And that interest in home-built wooden boats quickly evolved away from bluewater cruising boats toward dinghy cruising and sail-and-oar boats. I think I'm tolerably well informed about designs and designers for that tiny niche. Anything else, not so much.

I've had no formal training in boats, no connections to marinas and clubs and racing, and frankly not much interest in any of that either. No exposure to multihulls either, and (likewise) no interest in them for my own use. And not all that much interest in paddling either.

I am, I guess, a one-trick pony. But I don't mind--I happen to think that the trick I know is the best one there is.

(Actually, that Bolger Micro looks really good to me right now. So does the CLC Autumn Leaves. And very much so, Thomas Gillmer's Blue Moon Yawl, one of which I got aboard during a Great Lakes boat show. So I guess my interests are not limited to sail-and-oar open boats and dinghy cruising. I'm just too lazy to build and maintain anything bigger, it seems).

Thanks for setting me straight, everyone!

Tom