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Thread: Whatís going on here? (Warning: ugly picture)

  1. #1
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    Default Whatís going on here? (Warning: ugly picture)

    Iíve already scheduled a shipwright and haulout, fully expecting a new shear plank and associated trim. But Iíve replaced bad planks before, never seen one present like this. What is that ultra black ooze? This is probably an original old growth Doug fir 80 year old plank. Iíve poked around it a bit, not any obvious mushy wood. And this is not a seam, but the middle of the plank.

    FA5A04E8-293C-46DF-91C5-000B94DF8103.jpg

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Whatís going on here? (Warning: ugly picture)

    My EYES!!!!

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    Default Re: Whatís going on here? (Warning: ugly picture)

    Is she iron fastened? Sulphate reducing bacteria will do that to iron.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  4. #4
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    Default Re: Whatís going on here? (Warning: ugly picture)

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    Is she iron fastened? Sulphate reducing bacteria will do that to iron.
    Yes, iron fastened. Are you saying it might just be a bad nail and the plank is okay? (Yeah, I didn’t think so. )

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    Default Re: Whatís going on here? (Warning: ugly picture)

    Quote Originally Posted by ron ll View Post
    Yes, iron fastened. Are you saying it might just be a bad nail and the plank is okay? (Yeah, I didn’t think so. )
    Sulphate reducing bacteria require wet, very wet, and no oxygen. So you do have problems, possibly behind the plank. It certainly looks wet with the dribbles tracking down the paint.
    Find and pull the nail, then have a poke around. Find where the water is getting in and being trapped.
    That is, if my hypothesis is correct.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  6. #6
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    Default Re: Whatís going on here? (Warning: ugly picture)

    Is there even a fastener there? Hard to tell, but from the picture it looks to be between frames. Maybe an ancient homemade tar based putty filling a dent finally gave up, or a pitch pocket worked to the surface?

    Either way, let us know what you find.

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    Default Re: Whatís going on here? (Warning: ugly picture)

    I have nothing to offer, but I'm very curious about what you find.
    - Chris

    Any single boat project will always expand to encompass the set of all possible boat projects.

    Life is short. Go boating now!

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Whatís going on here? (Warning: ugly picture)

    I’m with Nick. I would start by just stripping some paint to see where the fastenings are and what color the wood is.

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    Default Re: Whatís going on here? (Warning: ugly picture)

    Poltergeist
    R
    Sleep with one eye open.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Whatís going on here? (Warning: ugly picture)

    Think I’m starting to see the problem. Just hope my neglect hasn’t made it much worse than it should have been. There is a confluence of joints directly above this where the 4x4 bulwarks (blue) is butt joined and so is the small cap rail above it. The cap rail has lifted allowing water onto the top of the bulwarks. I’m betting there is an iron lag bolt in the ends of the bulwarks down through the covering board and into the edge of the shear plank. It will be a while before I can open it up, but it bet removing that cap rail and some paint will tell me a lot.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Whatís going on here? (Warning: ugly picture)

    Capillary action fuggery
    rain water trying to turn the vessel into booze

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Whatís going on here? (Warning: ugly picture)

    Water into wine?

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    Default Re: Whatís going on here? (Warning: ugly picture)

    entropy

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    Default Re: Whatís going on here? (Warning: ugly picture)

    Looks like a miracle to me

    -Dave

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Whatís going on here? (Warning: ugly picture)

    Fun humor guys, but any real advice? Or did Nick ‘nail’ it and we’re done?

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    Default Re: Whatís going on here? (Warning: ugly picture)

    Quote Originally Posted by ron ll View Post
    Fun humor guys, but any real advice? Or did Nick ‘nail’ it and we’re done?
    I am not claiming bragging rights until you open it up and see what is going on.

    Mind you, you do need to get rid of that iron lag bolt, and shift the butts in the bulwark and its cap.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  17. #17
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    Default Re: Whatís going on here? (Warning: ugly picture)

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    I am not claiming bragging rights until you open it up and see what is going on.

    Mind you, you do need to get rid of that iron lag bolt, and shift the butts in the bulwark and its cap.
    Im just guessing at the iron lag bolt, but if that’s mostly original, probably the way it was built. Opening that up and rebuilding that joint arrangement is my plan. Just wish I had time to get to it sooner. In the meantime, I might clean the stain and cover the joint and see what the next rains bring.

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Whatís going on here? (Warning: ugly picture)

    I was not kidding when I said “capillary “,capillary action draws water into dry wood through hairline cracking. I bet the wood of the toe rail/cap is wet and going down on the inside between layers of paint, picking up old pitchy goo on the way out .
    Yes, too much stuff piled up right there . Seam in the rail and cap . Saw them wide open, dry the kerf, epoxify .

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Whatís going on here? (Warning: ugly picture)

    Yes. Toe rail, not bulwarks. What was I thinking? I think rather than kerf the joint and epoxify, I’ll probably pull a section of the toe rail and scarf in and epoxify new and stagger the joint on a new cap rail as well. I’ve got some purple heart about that size. Those are actually fun projects at a scale I can handle. I just hope the covering board and shear strake are salvageable. Replacing those is above my pay grade and can’t be done at the dock.

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Whatís going on here? (Warning: ugly picture)

    Great news. Just went down and sanded away the paint and discovered very clean dry tight grain vg fir plank. I think maybe Bruce is right that the goo from above was just leaching under the paint. Figure I just saved about $10,000 given what a haulout and shipwright and misc while- you’re-at-its would have cost. Now I just need time and weather to redo the joinery at the toe rail.

  21. #21
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    Default Re: Whatís going on here? (Warning: ugly picture)

    Excellent news
    What's not on a boat costs nothing, weighs nothing, and can't break

  22. #22
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    Default Re: Whatís going on here? (Warning: ugly picture)

    ^ Wot he said.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: Whatís going on here? (Warning: ugly picture)

    Sometimes you luck out!

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    Default Re: Whatís going on here? (Warning: ugly picture)

    Like I said, a miracle.
    -Dave

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    Default Re: Whatís going on here? (Warning: ugly picture)

    Finally got a chance to pull the cap rail, and much to my surprise the 3x4 toe rail is clean solid wood. I fully expected to have to replace that, easy enough to do but just not needed. But as we suspected, the four holes you see in this pic are where there used to be iron fastenings. I pulled out a couple of black needles that are the remains of the iron. So Iím going to clean up those holes and epoxy dowels into them. They probably go well into the covering board so any future removal might require sawing through the dowels, but not a big deal. Then I have a nice piece of sapele with which to make a new cap rail. Besides the iron failure, there was a failure of bedding which as Bruce pointed out allowed capillary action to get it wet. My only disagreement is that I wouldnít call them capillaries, more like aortas. I aggressively poked around the shear plank with an ice pick and could not find any soft wood. So Iím feeling pretty lucky and gonna have a beer or two with lunch.

    9194DB1A-F4E1-444F-9B15-455FADB521FE.jpg

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    Default Re: Whatís going on here? (Warning: ugly picture)

    Hey - that's great! Much better than my project, which is fortunately nearing completion. As is my bank account... Enjoy your beer!
    - Chris

    Any single boat project will always expand to encompass the set of all possible boat projects.

    Life is short. Go boating now!

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