Anyone here ever sail an Etchells?

[bamamick]

Here lately my boat crush has been back in the 5.5 metre class (I used to have a Columbia 5.5 metre. A very fun boat to sail), but I saw an E22 listed in Georgia the other day for less than $5K US with a 'heavy duty' trailer. It'd make a great boat for sailing in a couple of races a year around here, and I like the idea of small jib/permanent backstay. It weighs well below the 2 ton limit at my club's hoist (the Dragon was right at 3950 pounds), and I especially like the idea of just sitting on the deck rather than droop hiking.

Anyone sail these here? I had an old friend who was a sailmaker (since passed on) who told me they were a pain in the butt to sail when compared to something like a Soling, but I have to admit, aesthetically I think the E22 is a much better looking boat.

What do you think?

Mickey Lake

[Dan McCosh]

Never sailed on one, although we have one or two dry-sailed at our club.

[Canoeyawl]

There is/was a competitive fleet in SF.
Beautiful and obviously capable boats to handle SF Bay

[carlg]

I crewed on one a couple of times on SF Bay. Nice boat; almost bought one. For some reason the skipper sailed with a very loose luff. He's not alone. The Etchells web site shows them all sailing like that. I thought it was strange.

[Bobcat]

Crewed on one many, many years ago. I don't remember much about it, but that the boat was fast. And you don't win many races when the skipper drinks most of a six-pack during the race

[John B]

Sailed beside them plenty of times, never on one. Terrific performance, punch well above their weight. There are a couple around with cabins added to make them day/ overnighters, and I always remember that old Classicboat article about a guy who reformed the transom into a counter and put a gaff rig in. Cleaned up all the OGA races in JOE for a few seasons.
A typical match up here in some of our classic events is between an IOD owned by an ex AC sailor( a top competitive man) and an Etchells . They're often neck and neck in those events. An edge in favour of Cornelius is my impression.... but not by much...

[rbgarr]

Mick, We sailed against one in our Shields pretty regularly in our weekly races. The E-22 was faster but butt-ugly IMO. The guy and his crew aboard didn't really know the rules well enough and were "after race a$sholes" to boot so my judgment about anyone who sails one is highly colored. But you know I'm an unreasonable a$shat myself so take it as read.

[bamamick]

I don't believe that for a moment, Dave.

No, my Dragon brethren would shun me for life if I ever showed up in an E22, but I have to admit that there is a lot to like about it. I would like to sail one.

Mickey Lake

[John Meachen]

It seems like an itch that needs scratching, somebody, somewhere might have a boat you can try Mickey.Wear a hat and a false beard just in case the Dragon mob are looking!

[bamamick]

Well, I got invited to sail on one last summer, at Lake Dillon, in Colorado, but it was short notice and I couldn't make it. Maybe this year.

Mickey Lake

[JimConlin]

Mickey, weren’t you once talking about a catboat in Frenchman’s Bay or some such? What’s the real plan?

[carlg]

Check out the classifieds in Latitude 38 to see who's looking for crew. It might be worth a cheap plane ticket to check one out. I'd do it in a minute if I wasn't so old (83) and inflexible.

You might call the SF Yacht Club, based on the north side of the Golden Gate. where the Etchells that I crewed on was based and ask for any crew openings.

[bamamick]

Mickey, weren’t you once talking about a catboat in Frenchman’s Bay or some such? What’s the real plan?

With an 84 year old mom to take care of, well, as my financial advisor told me: ‘dreams change’. We have had to adjust our plans for pretty much everything. We have our land in Gouldsboro, and are happy with it, but other than that and multiple short visits to Colorado and Maine each year, we have to hang around the house more than we thought we would. It’s o.k.. we are happy.

Fwiw, we do have the HA18 catboat, as well as a Handy Cat, an old Star and an old Finn. I just never stop looking for that next boat.

Mickey Lake

[Garret]

There's a decent fleet on Lake Champlain (by our standards) - maybe 20 or so and a good friend has one that he races regularly. I've crewed on it a couple of times - but I'm not a racer & generally feel racing ruins my joy of the sport - but I've had bad experiences.

Anyway - I thought the boat was very responsive & easy to sail - though hard to sail well (guess that's true of any boat). It's certainly a racing machine, not a cruiser, but the popularity of them speaks for itself.

If you're ever in VT during the summer, I could probably get you a sail on it.

[bamamick]

Thanks, Garret! I will keep that in mind.

My youngest kiddo lives in Burlington, MA, and spends a lot of time in Vermont. I have only been twice: once to visit with a member we had here that went by the name of Noah (and to look at the ancient six metre that calls Burlington home), and once to Woodstock with my daughter. It is one of the most beautiful states in the nation for sure.

Mickey Lake

[Garret]

Thanks, Garret! I will keep that in mind.

My youngest kiddo lives in Burlington, MA, and spends a lot of time in Vermont. I have only been twice: once to visit with a member we had here that went by the name of Noah (and to look at the ancient six metre that calls Burlington home), and once to Woodstock with my daughter. It is one of the most beautiful states in the nation for sure.

Mickey Lake

My brother used to work with Noah - not sure what he's up to these days - Noah that is Black Rose (the 6 meter) is still moored in Mallets Bay & looking well cared for. My friend Joss has his Etchells in Shelburne - just south of Burlington.

[JimConlin]

With an 84 year old mom to take care of, well, as my financial advisor told me: ‘dreams change’. …
Mickey Lake

Then there’s the real world.

There are a half dozen Etchells here in Padanaram. They race on WEdnesdays, probably starting in June.
If you can scrounge a ride in one, I can supply lodging

[Gary Davis]

There is a small fleet that races on Bellingham Bay in Washington.

[bamamick]

Then there’s the real world.

There are a half dozen Etchells here in Padanaram. They race on WEdnesdays, probably starting in June.
If you can scrounge a ride in one, I can supply lodging

That is very kind of you, Jim. Thank you.

Mickey Lake

[David W Pratt]

Never sailed on one, but they seem to move well in all airs, from drifting to survival. Fast, they started ahead of all the other one designs at LYC, Shields, IOD, Ensigns.

[bamamick]

Much lighter boat with a more modern keel/rudder design and with a nice, healthy sailplan. Makes sense.

Mickey Lake

[rbgarr]

Much lighter boat with a more modern keel/rudder design....

There's a classic boat series here each summer and it's aim is to encourage those with full keel or centerboard boats of classic design to enjoy a day out on the water rounding a series of islands in a more or less figure-eight pattern and then gathering on the local YC deck for a post-'race' party. Why an Etchells with its underbody is considered classic is a mystery/slight annoyance to all who sail, but it's just one of those things that happens.

[bamamick]

Yeah, I agree. That doesn't make any sense unless the Etchells sailors are just really nice guys and people want them around. We talked about having a 'classic' event here on Mobile Bay one time but the idea of what 'classic' means these days is kind of fuzzy. There are tons of people in the world who will tell you that a J/24 is a classic racing boat, and in some ways, it is.

Mickey Lake

[JimConlin]

Yeah, I agree. That doesn't make any sense unless the Etchells sailors are just really nice guys and people want them around. We talked about having a 'classic' event here on Mobile Bay one time but the idea of what 'classic' means these days is kind of fuzzy. There are tons of people in the world who will tell you that a J/24 is a classic racing boat, and in some ways, it is.

Mickey Lake

Who’d suspect that this boat has a J/24 keel and rig?
DA74CD90-569D-4F5A-A20F-6FC8037A566B.jpg

[Ted Hoppe]

Etchell is a really fun boat to sail. I always thought it was the boat for my Oakland estuary and beer cans. i just don't have time to deal with a dry sailer and the crane and the time to rig it. maybe put one in the OPB category and wait for an invitation.

OTOH - it might be a great Tahoe summer boat with the possibility to tow it up and down the coast to race in the bay and down in San Diego. So would an Olson 30 but it also has a cabin...

[rbgarr]

Yours, Jim? I remember you were considering something along those lines.

Who’d suspect that this boat has a J/24 keel and rig?
DA74CD90-569D-4F5A-A20F-6FC8037A566B.jpg

[JimConlin]

Yours, Jim? I remember you were considering something along those lines.

Yup. Pandemic project. J/24’s with mushy balsa cores are given away and have some very usable parts.
The boat is loosely based on Joel White’s Fox Island Class. I’m tempted to build another.

[bamamick]

That is a very fine looking boat. I am glad the J/24 was able to contribute some good things to it. I had one of the first generation J/24's, and never has there been a more badly balanced boat, imo. They were marketed as a useful offshore boat for less than $10K US, and they accomplished that goal admirably, because I have been on one in seas so high you had to look straight up to see the sky, but they were not built to last as long as some of them have.

When I was dreaming about a boat to keep in Colorado to sail with family while we were out there, the J/24 was the only boat my wife would approve of. It's not a bad boat at all but sailing upwind, if you let go of the helm, the boat is going to swing to windward in the bat of an eye. You let go of the helm of a Star (in light to medium air) and nothing at all happens, except it will eventually sail above the wind until you adjust for the course. I have sailed many kinds of small race boats, but the Star is as close to perfect as you can get. The J/24 is about 180 degrees from it.

Mickey Lake

[Ted Hoppe]

Mickey - How about a Wylie wabbit. Under just the main, they are fast and fun single handers. With the jib and spinnaker they are rockets. They can sail on a zephyr and a paddle to get out. An electric trolling motor for more distance. A small SUV can easily tow it.

18D573AF-9117-4373-8BD9-08E668D8BDC4.jpeg

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[Figment]

Anyway - I thought the boat was very responsive & easy to sail - though hard to sail well (guess that's true of any boat). It's certainly a racing machine, not a cruiser, but the popularity of them speaks for itself.

I've only been on 2 of them, but this aligns very well with my opinion.

I'd enjoy one-design racing them very much, but for handicap racing or daysailing I'd pick a more comfortable boat.

[bamamick]

Mickey - How about a Wylie wabbit. Under just the main, they are fast and fun single handers. With the jib and spinnaker they are rockets. They can sail on a zephyr and a paddle to get out. An electric trolling motor for more distance. A small SUV can easily tow it.

18D573AF-9117-4373-8BD9-08E668D8BDC4.jpeg

203D9281-71E2-45CF-B0A8-981908E5F456.jpeg

Isn't that the boat they set up with a trapeze? I have never seen one. I have seen a couple of Moore 24's, and as a matter of fact, a friend over in Louisiana has a Moore 24 that he has optimized for PHRF racing and when I say 'optimized', I am not kidding. It's his thing, and his dad was the US Olympic boatwright through several cycles.

If I had the money just sitting around I'd probably go get that E22 over in Savannah right now. We have a couple of races here locally where I could sail it Portsmouth Yardstick and it'd probably do well, but more importantly, I like sailing a three-person boat. It's fun to be part of a team, and I enjoy the bit about working together with friends to achieve something, even if it is just having a good time. As I mentioned, I really like the idea of a jib and no runners. I sailed the 210 in the 'Gibson Island' config with the big roach-main and the jib, and I sailed it with the class main and genoa, and it was so much easier to handle with the jib. A jib is legal in the Dragon class, but the only time I ever even saw one was in a regatta we had in Seattle years ago when they had me up as a guest at the CWB. The Dragon is too heavy to sail with a small jib in anything but heavy air, but the E22 seems like it fits just right with that rig.

Right now I am just trying to find someone local to paint my old Star.

Mickey Lake

[Sandlapper]

Isn't that the boat they set up with a trapeze? I have never seen one. I have seen a couple of Moore 24's, and as a matter of fact, a friend over in Louisiana has a Moore 24 that he has optimized for PHRF racing and when I say 'optimized', I am not kidding. It's his thing, and his dad was the US Olympic boatwright through several cycles.

If I had the money just sitting around I'd probably go get that E22 over in Savannah right now. We have a couple of races here locally where I could sail it Portsmouth Yardstick and it'd probably do well, but more importantly, I like sailing a three-person boat. It's fun to be part of a team, and I enjoy the bit about working together with friends to achieve something, even if it is just having a good time. As I mentioned, I really like the idea of a jib and no runners. I sailed the 210 in the 'Gibson Island' config with the big roach-main and the jib, and I sailed it with the class main and genoa, and it was so much easier to handle with the jib. A jib is legal in the Dragon class, but the only time I ever even saw one was in a regatta we had in Seattle years ago when they had me up as a guest at the CWB. The Dragon is too heavy to sail with a small jib in anything but heavy air, but the E22 seems like it fits just right with that rig.

Right now I am just trying to find someone local to paint my old Star.

Mickey Lake

An E22 is a fun boat to sail but not one which responds well to laid back sailing. I like the ability to sail into a leeward mark with with a group on different tacks and able to sort it all out without fouling. Waiting on the windward leg to take down the spinnaker pole is a great advantage of the rig as well as the winchless double sheeted jib That huge keel weight ratio is great as well but can lead to dismasting if you are not aware of the limits of the rig. I've never sailed the earlier classics that you favor but think an E22 will fill a similar bill.

More 24s and Wabbits are great also as lightweight dinghy types but not at all like the E22. My sailing/racing days are long gone but remembering the good boats makes watching the college teams race in my river an annual treat. The first Sailpac fleet of about 17-18 teams from colleges all over the east starts here next weekend. Great fun just watching.

In spite of Moths that can get up on foils in 10kts of wind, the Windmill remains my favorite small boat.

[Boatbum]

A very nice fleet of E22's on Shelter island. I've always been more partial to a Shield though. Beautiful in the cradle and beautiful under sail.

[bamamick]

An E22 is a fun boat to sail but not one which responds well to laid back sailing. I like the ability to sail into a leeward mark with with a group on different tacks and able to sort it all out without fouling. Waiting on the windward leg to take down the spinnaker pole is a great advantage of the rig as well as the winchless double sheeted jib That huge keel weight ratio is great as well but can lead to dismasting if you are not aware of the limits of the rig. I've never sailed the earlier classics that you favor but think an E22 will fill a similar bill.

More 24s and Wabbits are great also as lightweight dinghy types but not at all like the E22. My sailing/racing days are long gone but remembering the good boats makes watching the college teams race in my river an annual treat. The first Sailpac fleet of about 17-18 teams from colleges all over the east starts here next weekend. Great fun just watching.

In spite of Moths that can get up on foils in 10kts of wind, the Windmill remains my favorite small boat.

I have owned two Windmills, and I agree, they are a great class of boat. You'd think that more folks around here would get into building them?

Mickey Lake

[rbgarr]

I agree, Mickey. Chine-built medium size sailboats are good ones for DIY and daysailing: Windmills, Rhodes Bantams, Goat Island skiffs, etc.