If I Were Building A Boat Again...

[WI-Tom]

I'm not a boat builder, not really. I see boats--especially traditionally-inspired wooden boats, mostly engineless--as my entry to a particular mode of wilderness travel that I love and enjoy. If there were good production boats aimed at that kind of thing, I might well have bought one instead of building a boat. But, in the U.S. anyway, there are no production boats for that niche, and a pro-built wooden boat is WAY beyond my reach financially. So, I became a boat builder to the extent I needed to.

My trajectory in sail and oar wilderness travel has been:

1. Bolger-esque little crude sailboats on short trips, culminating in the Texas 200 and a 20-day North Channel trip
2. Repeatedly "stealing" my brother's boat (Ross Lillistone's Phoenix III), or crewing with him, on longer trips

Sail 5.7.B (2).jpg

5. My current ride, Don Kurylko's Alaska design:

profile.jpg

Both of these boats are great. But, I chose the Alaska design long before I had any experience in what I'd want in a sail-and-oar boat for long(ish) kind of ambitious trips in remote or semi-remote waters. Mostly I chose it for aesthetics--the hull shape, the wineglass transom, the beauty of the two-masted lugger profile.

But like everyone, with experience comes growing awareness of what your preferences actually ARE. For example, even before launching I had scrapped the idea of the two-masted rig, knowing how little tolerance I have for complexity.

I also abandoned the idea of converting to a yawl (the Alaska has a mast partner in the aft deck, meant just to move the mizzen mast to while at anchor to clear the cockpit--but at least one other Alaska owner made it a real mast step for a smaller yawl mizzen, with good results). But as much as I was interested in the advantages of a small mizzen, I was not (and still am not) willing to give up a conventional tiller, which I love, for a push-pull (which I hate with a vehemence that goes beyond rationality).

So, if I were starting from a blank slate, knowing what I know now about sail and oar travel and my own peculiar preferences, what boat might I choose?

(Note: this is purely hypothetical! I have no intention of building another boat right now).

That's what this thread is about.

Feel free to contribute your own thoughts about what your "blank slate, knowing what I know now" boat might be if you chose to build again.

One contender for my blank-slate boat would be John Welsford's Long Steps design:

Long Steps.jpg

Tom

[johngsandusky]

I own two wooden canoes both light. One glued lap ply 15'x28" 42#, the other formerly wood/canvas now wood/fg 15'x35" 50#. I have sailed both, I bought the 50# in part hoping she would be better suited to sailing, she is. If I built another boat it would be an SOF canoe to sail with aim of a hull weight under 40#.
In your shoes I sometimes wish for that Bolger cat, about 20', can be built multichine or lapstrake. Can't think of the name right now.

[Clinton B Chase]

I want to take my Calendar 18 design, bring it to 20-feet max, and get a cuddy cabin on there...cabins are hard to get right so they don't look goofy or get in the way. JW did a nice job on Long Steps. The CI-18 is beamier, and probably would stay about 5'10 in the longer version so that rowing was doable, perhaps stand up rowing as an option.

[WI-Tom]

Clint,

the 16' Calendar Islands Yawl would be a contender for my blank-slate boat list as well. (Maybe Drake even moreso, but I'll save that for a later post).

Another would be John Welsford's Walkabout design.

John Welsford Walkabout.jpg

Walkabout is set up very thoughtfully for a solo cruiser. It has a small mizzen but a conventional tiller. Good rowing performance for a cruising boat.

I think the Walkabout design (16' 2"), along with Ross Lillistone's Phoenix III (15' 1.5") and Clint Chase's Calendar Islands Yawl (16' version) might be the best I know of in this size range, what I think of as "small" sail-and-oar boats (for a good discussion of the merits and trade-offs in boat size, have a look at THIS OLD THREAD about sail and oar designs, with lots of contributions from designers).

I think there's a lot to be said for the smallest boat that can do the job. Long Steps is appealing, but it's a significantly bigger boat than Walkabout. Something to think about...

The Alaska's sleeping platform is pretty spacious, but has a few inconveniences built in:

1. Lots of shifting of gear and bags around to set up the platform (bags normally get stored in the space beneath the platform when sailing).
2. Even mildly wavy conditions can make it a very wobbly place to try and sleep--typically not a problem for my Great Lakes cruising where I can tie tight to shore, but I did have one memorably un-sleepable night aboard in very tiny waves that were enough to make it unpleasant.

So Walkabout's dedicated sole space to sleep in is appealing.

One thing I don't love, and would have to come to terms with (or modify), is how the case for Walkabout's offset board rises above seat level. That makes a stretch of the port bench kind of unusable for seating.

But Walkabout is in many ways about as close to perfect a boat for my circumstances as I can imagine. I did almost choose it, but the looks of the Alaska won out in the end. I think the choice might well go the other way if I had to choose again now, knowing what I do after so many miles of cruising.

Tom

[John hartmann]

This could be a fun exercise! Tom, are you envisioning solo cruising only? If that were a priority when I was looking at designs before choosing the Jewell, then Long Steps would have been very high on my short list.
I adore my mizzens—both are sprit boomed, which adds a consideration when it comes time to reef for Waxwing, and both of which have simple drop in steps. They are the first sail I set and the last I strike when rigging. Setting and striking them is quick and easy. Waxwing’s off center mizzen step allows the use of a traditional tiller. The Jewell’s tiller passes through an opening in the transom, with the mizzen stepped on center, above the transom opening. Clint Chase’s Calendar Islands 18 also uses an off center mizzen step; I have sailed in company with a friend who built the 18 footer—it is a very well sorted design and seriously capable for extended dinghy cruising.
The cuddy of boats like the Scamp and Long Steps seem like a really nice balance of shelter from spray when under way, and ease of use when setting up a cockpit tent, but would add some complexity to the build for the step of an unstayed mast for the lug main. In use, the Scamp style mast step works really well.
I think setting and retrieving anchors without going up onto the foredeck from boats like Scamp or Long Steps would take another bit of systems sorting (maybe some Scamp sailors can chime in about their arrangements).
A few years ago, I did a multi day trip with a friend who was sailing a Scamp. He packed a remarkable amount of supplies into the flotation spaces with deck hatch access. All of my stores in Waxwing were packed in dry bags and boxes lashed into place in the event of an upset. In Rob’s boat, the cockpit was uncluttered and tidy, despite the stowage of a seemingly endless supply of peanut butter, bananas and fig newtons. The Jewell has a similarly impressive amount of stowage in the flotation tanks; it is a very nice feature to live with.
Another amazingly cool detail of the Scamp is the footwell which lets a skipper sail while standing with the boom nicely overhead:
52613407-59D3-4321-BE82-FE868C5949B8.jpg
Sailing while standing for a bit when conditions allow for it is wonderful. Having a design which takes that into consideration would be, too. Looking forward to hearing other’s experiences with their boats!

[rgthom]

There are a lot more designs available since I built Walkabout (13 years ago!), sometimes I think it would be nice to have something either lighter and faster or bigger and able to camp 2. If I lost it and planned to build again today it would probably be the same boat, though, as it has been the best set of design compromises for all the ways I have found to use it. Long Steps has some nice features like the cuddy and the raised sleeping area that drains to a pumpable space, but I have made a folding fabric cuddy and water accumulating on the sole has just not been a problem in dry California. For a while I also had a SOF LFH17 rowboat that could be car topped, but I found that it was not much faster to row and that keeping the Walkabout ready on a trailer was actually much more convenient than loading on the car top each trip.

Some folks like to have a quiver of boats, each optimized for a certain use. That seems a bit like (excuse the comparison) plural marriage to me. I can barely manage one of those, and you want how many? Seriously though, storage and maintenance of a bunch of boats is not worth it when I can play around and get my one boat to do the job fairly well.

I agree with Tom's objections to the daggerboard trunk impinging on the seat area, and would prefer a single sail to the yawl if/when I ever finish a sailing rig. There are solutions already worked out for both of those. Martyn Long built his Walkabout with a Michalak style leeboard and says it works very well:



And John Welsford drew up a rig using a single SCAMP sail, which I used when locating the mast step on my boat:



As to commercial built boats there are two I know of now which are quite similar to a Walkabout: the Norseboat 17.5 and Gig Harbor's Salish Voyager. Both are FRP, and both are well north of $20k to purchase new. That is not in my play budget, I am afraid.

- Rick

[WI-Tom]

Fun to see everyone's thinking here--thanks for posting. I agree with Rick on the "one boat is enough" school of thought.

Another subset my brain has created is the shorter/higher volume boats, like Scamp and Ilur. Many times I've thought a Scamp would be a wonderfully eccentric (but effective) little cruising boat for me. Almost sui generis--not many others like it that I know. Ilur of course has had lots of exposure with John Hartman's Waxwing here, and Roger Barnes's cruising videos. Not ideal rowing boats, but perfectly rowable (though Scamp's windage would be far from ideal).

Another is the CLC Autumn Leaves design, though that's a big build (it seems to lazy ol' me).

As for the production boats, yes, they exist. I can't afford them new. They rarely seem to come up on the used market around the Great Lakes.

I was excited to find a line of GRP production rowing boats--somewhat suited to coastal row-cruising--that are built right here in Poland! They would be great for the local river exploration I haven't done yet. But a little rowboat and launching dolly, new, would cost north of 6,000 Euros. Not sure that's in my budget...

Tom

[WI-Tom]

And John Welsford drew up a rig using a single SCAMP sail, which I used when locating the mast step on my boat:

Rick,

it's interesting that you seem to share my mizzen aversion (or lack of perceived need for a mizzen, at least). I have to say, having sailed Clint's CIY, the mizzen is awfully nice in action for raising sail/reefing/anchoring.

As for a single-sail rig, I have really come to like my boomless standing lugsail. I wonder if the geometry would work out for the proper sheet leads for a boomless sail on your Walkabout? You could always add a sprit boom, as John does with his Ilur, if the extra sail control seemed important to you. I find I do just fine without that, but no doubt I'd do better with it.

Tom

[JimD]

Mine wouldn't be sail and oar at all, since my shoulders are shot and I can't row. It would be sail and motor, beamier with gobs of stability, and a yawl or ketch rig, since I might just manage two smaller sails but not one bigger sail. Short masts and spars. Something workboaty and sturdy looking. With the sails stowed it would be open and uncluttered in the middle for a tent. A centerboard trunk in the middle wouldn't be in the way because there would be room for berths on either side.

[Clinton B Chase]

Clint,

the 16' Calendar Islands Yawl would be a contender for my blank-slate boat list as well. (Maybe Drake even moreso, but I'll save that for a later post).

Tom

Tom - thx for the not to the CIY. OK... I got the drift better now - smallest boat possible - totally agree and it has to still do do the job...yeah the Drake 19 in expedition form with downwind squgsail rig would be mine. That or a Dory. As I always say and should follow, if I am going to get one boat it would be a well design Swampscott Dory - of course I'd choose my D-Street Dory. Or an Alpha-Beach though that is a lot of boat - and 18 foot dory or the like....you can do anything in those boats.

[Jack Loudon]

My boats (both real and fantasy) tend to get simpler as I get older. For me, a dedicated rowing boat with a reaching/running sail only, and no actual rudder or lee board. A self-draining cockpit sole for fewer worries in open water.

Alec Morgan has done some nice trips in his Lillistone Flint with crab claw rig (below). He steered with an oar and got a bit of lateral resistance from the rear skeg and sharp forefoot.

[John hartmann]

The smallest boat possible that will get the job done for me requires a boat with arrangements to sleep aboard. There are some cruising grounds in the east where virtually all the land based camping is precluded by private ownership. Even along the Maine Island Trail there are areas that have become so popular with kayakers that island based campsites are often not available. The ability to sleep aboard opens up potential cruising grounds a lot.

[dbp1]

In addition to offset & deck stepped mizzens, another option to retain a normal(ish) tiller is to have it go _around_ the mizzen. This was what was in the plans for my boat (Apple), though I opted for the simpler push-pull (since I find other aspects of it appealing):

apple_gybing_lightairs.jpg

apple_gybed.jpg

[Woxbox]

Another is the CLC Autumn Leaves design, though that's a big build (it seems to lazy ol' me).

Well, you know that this is the decision I made, having built the first kit-supplied model. And, at this point, the only kit that has been completed. There is a second one that was built from scratch.

So my thinking is, yes, one needs a cabin to retreat to if the cruise is going to run for many days. Jim Michalak has some simpler to build and much lighter boats that fit the bill. Norm's Boat is one good example. That boat carries no ballast and is easily driven. Autumn Leaves is heavily ballasted and has a very secure feel to it as a result. But, of course this makes it slow under oars. Handy, but slow.

There's no perfect solution, of course. I know some have a strong aversion to these sharpie-inspired, flat-bottom boats. And building for comfort adds weight and windage, that's something that's hard to avoid. But for now, I'm very satisfied with my boat.

The two Autumn Leaves known to be complete and sailing. Mine is the balanced lug version, the other carries the original jib-headed main sail plan.

SWS 2022 w Eric Vance - Harris.jpg

And Norm's Boat, for comparison:

[The Jeff]

I'm planning to upsize from my Ross Lillistone First Mate (a stitch and glue Phoenix III) to a John Welsford Long Steps, hopefully starting later this year.



There's a lot to like about it: the small dodger, off center board, footwell, water ballast, and self draining cockpit sole. And despite never sailing with one, the mizzen sounds like a handy sail.

Size wise I don't see an additional 4' mattering, at least in the trailering department. Either boat is bigger than I want to man handle and I have a tractor with forks I can use to lift or turn it. The extra 8' of boat plus boomkin could well be an issue in getting turned around in narrow creeks though. Draft should be about the same, but the weight will be more. Might have trouble dragging Long Steps over a sandbar like I've had to do a few times with the First Mate.

The First Mate is a great boat and I'd rather not move on from it so quickly after building one, but I can see my use case changing in the next few years. Lately I've taken up to five people out on a trolling motor cruise which would have been way more comfortable in a bigger and more open boat. My wife has no background in boats and has never been at ease the few times I've taken her out in the First Mate, so I'm hoping sitting lower under the boom or up in the dodger will be better for her. Plus it should be a little easier to wrangle my young son when he's big enough to go out.

Also I've got some ideas for some bigger trips I'd like to do and a bit bigger boat would be nice. Like John, Virginia doesn't have a lot of waterfront camping access so sleeping on the boat is a must. I really don't have enough experience with that in the First Mate other than to say it's got to be a lot easier in Long Steps.

I will definitely miss the looks of the spritsail despite being a pain at times, but the practicality of the lug sail can't be ignored. And I'm a perpetual tinkerer, so I may or may not have already sketched up a spritsail and jib configuration that keeps the CE in about the same place. Just imagine... mizzen, mizzen staysail, spritsail main, jib, and topsail. That'd be enough strings and sewing projects to keep me busy for years.

[WI-Tom]

The smallest boat possible that will get the job done for me requires a boat with arrangements to sleep aboard.

Good point, John. Sleep-aboard potential is important for me, too, even though much of my Canadian cruising doesn't require it. But little local waterways, or thickly forested wilderness like Lake Nipigon, make sleeping aboard the only real option sometimes. It just opens up lots of possibilities knowing you can always sleep on the boat--especially if you "plan" as un-thoroughly as I do.

Tom - thx for the not to the CIY. OK... I got the drift better now - smallest boat possible - totally agree and it has to still do do the job...

I'm still fairly undecided on the size issue, actually. The smallest boat possible idea has lots of appeal. But in practice, I doubt I'd go smaller than something like the Phoenix III, even though (for example) the Everglades Challenge has been done in an 8' pram. No thanks!

Thinking it over a bit more, I have a few different category of boat I would consider for myself (all solo-oriented, as that seems to be my reality, and often my preference):

1. Sail and oar boats--this is my current priority for boats, and my first choice of how to use boats: multi-week trips in remote semi-wilderness to wilderness waters with lots of islands.

2. Small cabin boats. These kinds of boats have a ton of appeal to me, though they involve complications that a small open boat doesn't. Here maybe a boat like the CLC Autumn Leaves would be a top contender. Maybe a Welsford Pathfinder with a cabin? But it's likely that I won't pursue this, because of the added costs and complications (a dinghy for a 19' boat?), and because a used production boat might fill this role OK if I did pursue it.

3. Small slow motorboats, kind of a small canal boat or narrowboat style. Maybe. I see the appeal of something like the CMD Redwing designs, for example:

CMD Redwing.jpg

But right now, my primary interest is sail and oar boats. Or at least, small engineless boats with realistic rowing potential.

Tom

[heimlaga]

1. What comes to mind would be a Norwegian sjekte or a Shetland whilly boat or one of the sleek doublenders traditionally built in northern Sweden or Western Finland or Estonia. A rather sleek double ender with enough flare in the bow to be dry and not bury the bow. I dislike most American designs because the minimal flare in the bow makes them very wet boat and also dangerous in the sort of short seas you have in a shallow archipelago when the waves from the open sea is pressed into sounds and inlets. The fixed long keel means you have no centerboard trunk getting in the way and holds the boat on a stable course under oars. A single mast with either spritsail and jib or a lug sail. A traditional unstayed spritsail rig is as simle as anything can be. Many don't even have a halyard.
2. In my childhood I sailed a lot with my father in a Joemarin 17 and I learned that a small cabin boat is extremely impractical. You need a hull lenght over 20 feet to have room for both a cabin a and a cockpit. I have seen some interersting small cabin boats converted from a Blekingseka with side decks and a cabin in the bow. Keeping the tradtional wooden long keel so they could be trailered or hauled ashore anywhere. For your adventures you want a boat that can sail in shallow water and which isn't easily damaged from running aground.

Just my thoughts........... there is some good boatbuilding timber in Poland I have heard. Pine and spruce and oak.

[Clinton B Chase]

The smallest boat possible that will get the job done for me requires a boat with arrangements to sleep aboard. There are some cruising grounds in the east where virtually all the land based camping is precluded by private ownership. Even along the Maine Island Trail there are areas that have become so popular with kayakers that island based campsites are often not available. The ability to sleep aboard opens up potential cruising grounds a lot.

This is a great point by John - of course my smallest boat requires a 6'6" sleeping space! Perhaps that is why I like designs with a higher length to beam ratio! For really covering ground, it is my opinion that the focus is still on sailing...you can actually do much better for cruising in a rowing boat with downwind sailing as the aux power!!!! Thus my choice of my Drake 19 or another rower that has the secondary stability for safe downwind (only) sailing - i.e., no dagger/centerboard trunk!

Sail and oar should really be "oar and sail". No?

[Rob Hazard]

For what it's worth, the sleeping space in a Scamp is 8ft 3in long. Even if you subtract the little sump in the stern it's still well over 7ft. You'd fit easily, Clint! ;^)

The Scamp does remarkably well as a sleep-aboard cruiser. Its main shortcoming is as a rowing boat. It has too short a waterline and too much windage. I'll bet those failings are what drew John Welsford to design Long Steps.

While building my Drake I mused on the idea of decking the ends in and making a tent so I could sleep on the floorboards. I'm sure it would work, but I'm getting a bit old and creaky for that sort of foolishness. A couple hours of rowing is all I want to do in one day!

As to John's question about anchoring without going forward; Howard Rice devised a simple system for that on the Scamp. The anchor rode runs through a fairlead on the bow, and there's a little retrieval line looped to the rode outboard of the fairlead that allows you to haul the rode aft and hoist the anchor right into the cockpit. The fairlead is offset to starboard so the boat reliably falls off on a starboard tack.

[John hartmann]

Thanks, Rob! Does your retrieval line have some sort of low friction thimble to let the rode run freely without wanting to take the retrieval line with it?

[AJZimm]

Pretty much any designer or writer will tell you that a blank slate or blank page is the most difficult place to start.

For me it comes down to what constraints are imposed by what you want to accomplish with the boat, what area you are likely to do most of your cruising in and what are your personal physical capabilities (or limitations).

Are there sufficient places to camp ashore, what are the wind, tide and sea states you will encounter in the seasons you want to cruise in and how many creature comforts do you want to carry?

Also, what is your approach to this, your cruising philosophy as it were? Do you want to cover as much distance as possible in a day to get to a destination or are you more interested in poking along, gunkholing and exploring every little cove, bay, headland and beach, without being concerned whether you actually get somewhere?

How much physical effort do you want to put in every day? Does rowing 8-10 hours a day for weeks on end seem like a good idea to you or is your idea of a good time more like 6 hours of sailing with an hour of rowing at either end of the day?

Then answers to these questions will start to point towards a design that will be the best compromise.

It seems to me that when any of us talk about our ideal boat, it would be helpful to state our assumptions about these questions.

[WI-Tom]

Pretty much any designer or writer will tell you that a blank slate or blank page is the most difficult place to start.

Alex,

good point. I completely agree. I guess "blank slate" is the wrong term--I kind of mean the opposite, almost.

In other words, imagine you know exactly how and where you'd like to use your boat, based on actual experience. But you now find yourself boatless, with no particular ties or loyalty to any specific designs.

Knowing what you know, what kind of boat would you choose this time around, with the benefit of experience? That's what I was getting at for myself.

I think Long Steps would be a strong contender for me in that circumstance, and might push me into some more ambitious cruising with the water ballast, cuddy cabin, etc. Scamp would be similar in some ways but less rowing-oriented but appealing in its own eccentric way. Walkabout might be my top choice this time around in my musings so far, being smaller (which I like), having a mizzen (which I think I'd like), and a conventional tiller (which I really don't see myself giving up), and sole sleeping space. And the best rowing performance of those--a boat that is a pleasure to row rather than a chore.

But this is all hypothetical for me, as I plan to continue relying on my Alaska for a good long time yet.

Tom

[Hugh MacD]

I have to admit I've nothing to contribute to the thread, but I have to say it's one of the most enjoyable and informative I've followed in ages Thanks guys!

[WI-Tom]

Mine wouldn't be sail and oar at all, since my shoulders are shot and I can't row. It would be sail and motor, beamier with gobs of stability, and a yawl or ketch rig, since I might just manage two smaller sails but not one bigger sail. Short masts and spars. Something workboaty and sturdy looking. With the sails stowed it would be open and uncluttered in the middle for a tent. A centerboard trunk in the middle wouldn't be in the way because there would be room for berths on either side.

Jim,

what design is that? I meant to ask earlier. Seems a proper little ship of a boat, high volume and high freeboard so you sit in the boat.

Tom

[JimD]

Well, you know that this is the decision I made, having built the first kit-supplied model...

The two Autumn Leaves known to be complete and sailing. Mine is the balanced lug version, the other carries the original jib-headed main sail plan.

SWS 2022 w Eric Vance - Harris.jpg

That is such a cool looking boat. I liked it the first time I saw the lines.

[JimD]

Jim,

what design is that? I meant to ask earlier. Seems a proper little ship of a boat, high volume and high freeboard so you sit in the boat.

Tom

Selway Fisher Baltic Lugger, 17'9" https://www.selway-fisher.com/OtherDB.htm

[WI-Tom]

Selway Fisher Baltic Lugger, 17'9" https://www.selway-fisher.com/OtherDB.htm

I thought that looked familiar! Thanks.

Way back around 2006-2007 was when I first started looking at a boat to build. This was one that really caught my eye at the time. I still love it. Not much of a rowing boat, but it looks like it would take care of the crew in pretty gnarly conditions with that high freeboard.

Selway-Fisher has some cool boat designs. I'll have to look them over again.

Tom

[Rob Hazard]

John,
Yes it has exactly that, a low friction plastic thimble that rides along the anchor rode. The line itself is only ~3ft long, and it's made off to a fitting on the cuddy top where it's easy to reach. You can see it in that photo you posted, just ahead of the portlight.

[MushCreek]

Last year, I decided to build 'one more boat'. I hadn't built a boat in about 20 years, and never something as elegant as the glued lapstrake Peregrine 18 that I'm slowly finishing up. Of course, now my mind wanders to 'What's next?'. I might bang together a cheap outboard utility to run my antique outboards on, or perhaps something to sail...

[Woxbox]

Another boat that comes to mind is CLC's Faering Cruiser. Different in that it's designed to row as well as sail well while offering a cabin. This means a narrow boat, sliding seat and some length -- 22 1/2 feet. I was really taken with the boat until I saw one in person. That aft cabin is quite tight, however. Both narrow and low. The Angus Sailing RowCruiser takes the concept a step further in the rowing performance direction, which means a shorter and much lighter boat, this time done up as a trimaran. The CLC boat uses water ballast for sailing stability. Food for thought.

[JimD]

I thought that looked familiar! Thanks.

Way back around 2006-2007 was when I first started looking at a boat to build. This was one that really caught my eye at the time. I still love it. Not much of a rowing boat, but it looks like it would take care of the crew in pretty gnarly conditions with that high freeboard.

Selway-Fisher has some cool boat designs. I'll have to look them over again.

Tom

The only way I'd want to row this boat would be with four oarsmen and me as coxswain, but it does look like a safe and dry boat for any conditions I'll ever sail in. I built an SF dinghy years back, and have plans for a pocket cruiser that I later decided against.

[JimD]

Another boat that comes to mind is CLC's Faering Cruiser. Different in that it's designed to row as well as sail well while offering a cabin. This means a narrow boat, sliding seat and some length -- 22 1/2 feet. I was really taken with the boat until I saw one in person. That aft cabin is quite tight, however. Both narrow and low. The Angus Sailing RowCruiser takes the concept a step further in the rowing performance direction, which means a shorter and much lighter boat, this time done up as a trimaran. The CLC boat uses water ballast for sailing stability. Food for thought.

Like the tri version a lot

[Jack Loudon]

I confess I've never liked rowing on a boat with a sail. Unless careful stowage methods are devised, the oars are in the way when sailing and the sail is in the way when rowing. As a lifelong bicyclist, I'd like to try a Hobie Mirage Drive or similar pedal power in my next boat. No awkward transitions between rowing and sailing, and fairly easy to do both at the same time.

A sleek rowboat, narrow at the WL but with good secondary stability, and simple downwind rig per Clint Chase.

[john welsford]

I'm not a boat builder, not really. I see boats--especially traditionally-inspired wooden boats, mostly engineless--as my entry to a particular mode of wilderness travel that I love and enjoy. If there were good production boats aimed at that kind of thing, I might well have bought one instead of building a boat. But, in the U.S. anyway, there are no production boats for that niche, and a pro-built wooden boat is WAY beyond my reach financially. So, I became a boat builder to the extent I needed to.

My trajectory in sail and oar wilderness travel has been:

1. Bolger-esque little crude sailboats on short trips, culminating in the Texas 200 and a 20-day North Channel trip
2. Repeatedly "stealing" my brother's boat (Ross Lillistone's Phoenix III), or crewing with him, on longer trips

Sail 5.7.B (2).jpg

5. My current ride, Don Kurylko's Alaska design:

profile.jpg

Both of these boats are great. But, I chose the Alaska design long before I had any experience in what I'd want in a sail-and-oar boat for long(ish) kind of ambitious trips in remote or semi-remote waters. Mostly I chose it for aesthetics--the hull shape, the wineglass transom, the beauty of the two-masted lugger profile.

But like everyone, with experience comes growing awareness of what your preferences actually ARE. For example, even before launching I had scrapped the idea of the two-masted rig, knowing how little tolerance I have for complexity.

I also abandoned the idea of converting to a yawl (the Alaska has a mast partner in the aft deck, meant just to move the mizzen mast to while at anchor to clear the cockpit--but at least one other Alaska owner made it a real mast step for a smaller yawl mizzen, with good results). But as much as I was interested in the advantages of a small mizzen, I was not (and still am not) willing to give up a conventional tiller, which I love, for a push-pull (which I hate with a vehemence that goes beyond rationality).

So, if I were starting from a blank slate, knowing what I know now about sail and oar travel and my own peculiar preferences, what boat might I choose?

(Note: this is purely hypothetical! I have no intention of building another boat right now).

That's what this thread is about.

Feel free to contribute your own thoughts about what your "blank slate, knowing what I know now" boat might be if you chose to build again.

One contender for my blank-slate boat would be John Welsford's Long Steps design:

Long Steps.jpg

Tom

Wow, three of mine on your list! Thanks for the compliment Tom.

John Welsford

[rgthom]

I confess I've never liked rowing on a boat with a sail. Unless careful stowage methods are devised, the oars are in the way when sailing and the sail is in the way when rowing. As a lifelong bicyclist, I'd like to try a Hobie Mirage Drive or similar pedal power in my next boat. No awkward transitions between rowing and sailing, and fairly easy to do both at the same time.

A sleek rowboat, narrow at the WL but with good secondary stability, and simple downwind rig per Clint Chase.

A sailboat using oars as backup for when the wind dies makes sense, the Sail-n-oar type. I have not taken to using a sail on a rowboat, though, despite several attempts at downwind rigs. I have tried a simple square sail, a dihedral twins rig, a kayak type deck level pop-up, and even a parafoil traction kite. Each of them worked, but it never seemed worth the fuss to bring one along after the first few outings. Rowing downwind is easy anyway, and the extra speed from a sail was minimal.
- Rick