Ninigret for the Salish Sea

[jpatrick]

I’ve been working on a new boat build for a while now. But please don’t be too disappointed that I’ve left you all in the dark because I really have been making really slow progress. The first several posts here will be to catch you all up…..

For some time now, I’ve wanted a small power boat that I can use for simple cruising. I’ve looked high and low on Craig’s list and other sites to no avail. Trying to find something that’s not too big, not too noisy, not too fast or slow, and that wouldn’t require too much restoration and associated maintenance. It seems that the pandemic sort of dried up the market’s supply of this craft. At least, I never found it. So I decided to build which wasn’t an altogether bad decision. I like to build boats.

I looked at many designs and bought a few sets of plans. I was very close to building Lathrop’s Bluejacket or a Devlin Surf Scoter. I was even closer to building Hylan’s Bowler. But for various reasons, all of these fell by the wayside. I scaled down and finally settled on an Atkins Ninigret. 23 feet overall, outboard in a well, small cabin. Fuel efficient, quiet, and camp cruise comfort… with some design “enhancements.” What’s not to like?

Here’s a photo of a really nice looking Ninigret that was built by timo4352:
Tim's Ninigret on trailer.jpg

The photo is shamelessly stolen from Tim’s build thread: http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...lding-Ninigret

Tim has been very gracious with providing his build discussion here on the forum and with answering some specific questions via personal messaging. It is immensely helpful to have someone to follow through shoal waters!

I began a year ago last February. I couldn’t devote much time to it then but was able to spend an hour or so at a time. Having many unresolved questions about how this boat would be built, I began with a model. That led to lofting, etc etc. Quite a bit has been done in this past year although it’s never enough. Too many interruptions from other needs and projects. And for some reason as the years pass, I seem to lose energy/endurance, not gain it. Go figure.

More later….
Jeff

[jpatrick]

As designed, the Ninigret is a great day boat that was intended as primarily for fishing. It has a generous cuddy cabin and well sized cockpit. The modest sized outboard motor sits in a covered well, something that I truly appreciate. I currently own a glass cuddy-cabin boat that has a four stroke 90 hp outboard. And although many would never say it’s a boisterous boat, I’m not in agreement. For it to operate efficiently at all, it wants to be up on a plane. That means a minimum of 13 to 15 knots depending on conditions and how many are on board with me. I've been wanting a boat that is a lot more calm. So I’m outfitting the Ninigret with a four stroke 30 hp. According to Tim, his Ninigret operates very smoothly from 8 to 15 mph (7 to 13 kts). And I’ll cover and soundproof the well. My hearing is not good so having a quiet ride will allow me to converse with my passengers a whole lot easier.

As I said, some modifications… Primarily I plan on expanding the cuddy, making it into more what one can consider a minimal cruising cabin. I will also add a second helm position, inside the cabin, so that I can steer through a cold wet day in relative comfort. Generally, the plan is to raise the forward shear/foredeck by 4” and extend the cabin aft by one 20” station. I will likely also add a bit of a raised forecabin roof that will encompass the forward deck hatch. Steering will be somewhat old school via a steering stick(s). This is a simple cable actuated method that can easily allow for two, linked, helm positions. Harry Bryan has written about stick steering in WB #227. I will be following much of his design ideas. Allowing for the motor controls is still a work in progress, so to speak. The outboard I’ve purchased came with the standard shift/throttle/ignition switch control. I envision gutting that and using the separate components at the two positions. More on that as it comes. In fact, the entire cabin is yet to be fully designed. My plan is to build the hull, which incorporates the raised shear, forward. Then flip the boat. I’ll then be in a position to do some mockups of cabin, foredeck, etc. I think it’s important that I emphasize that all the parts of Ninigret that touch the water will remain as designed by Atkins.

This model depicts the design that I'm aiming for:

Model.jpg

I have many visualizations of the cabin arrangement in my head. Unfortunately when tasked to transcribe these to paper, I cannot. I think it’s the lack of experience in working with such a confined and specific space. I’ve a great deal of experience in working within houses, but not on small boats. So the mockup will be the way to find my answers. The little model I made got me a long way but it applies primarily to the outward form of the boat.

Lofting the hull was really straightforward. The hull form is pretty simple: hard chine, simple frames of two straight segments, sloped but flat transom, and a well defined stem. The hull is built of marine plywood. Topsides are lapstrake. I’m choosing to use epoxy glue throughout the hull. The lapped planks are glued with epoxy to each other and to the frames. Atkin spec’d a built up stem but I chose to laminate it instead. I’m also following the typical glued lap method of using an inner and separate outer stem. I’ve upscaled Atkins’ scantlings a bit to accommodate the marginally weaker doug fir material I’m using in lieu of oak.

After lofting I made what I could before the shop got filled with a building frame: stem, frames, cut out stock (cvg fir) for the apron, chine batten, and bottom batten. I also have the shear clamp and outwale stock ready. I chose to use hydrotec maranti plywood. Atkins calls for ⅜” (9mm) for bottom and topsides planking. He spec’d oak for the motor transom but I decide to use the hydrotec. I glued up the required thickness in my vacuum bag using Titebond 3 as the adhesive.

Some photos to catch you all up:

Assembled frames:

Frame assembly.jpg

Line-off:

Lining off.jpg

First topside planks being fitted:

Fitting topside planks.jpg

Jeff

[Breakaway]

I will be following with interest, thanks for sharing.

On the dual station controls, I realize this is a DIY forum. However, dual station setups are sold off the shelf for a few hundred bucks. Just FYI.

Screen Shot 2023-02-22 at 10.06.46 PM.jpg

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Kevin

[timo4352]

You know there is no way I would miss following this build.
The only thing I'll offer now is to keep in mind to keep the weight down up high.
I am envious of all the windows in your shop.

[willin woodworks]

Clandestine boat building....shame on you....

[Liberty53]

AWESOME!

The extra cabin space will be a welcome retreat in the rain.

Nice work.

-Derek

[The Jeff]

Looking forward to following along!

[jpatrick]

Kevin.... Thanks for that link to the duel controls. I'd done a cursory search but really didn't expect to find anything. When I bought the motor, the dealer told me that such things really weren't made for the small motors. I suspect that what he really meant was that he didn't know of any or he didn't have any to sell. I'll check out what you sent. I'm not at all opposed to buying something manufactured.

Tim... I knew you'd be watching for this build discussion to finally make it into daylight. Please feel free to interject wherever and when ever you can. I understand the need to keep the boat as light as possible. The raised shear and cabin additions I envision will require a very modest amount of actual material.

I really appreciate all comments here. And, all advice. I have a backlog of questions that I'll ask as they become pertinent. And before I get too far along I want to publicly thank my pal stromborg (Steve) for all his very valuable advise and counsel. We are fairly close neighbors here on our island. Usually all I have to do is text "help" and he'll be over to calm me down. Thanks, Steve.

Jeff

[cstevens]

Oooh - I'm definitely following this one! I like the adaptations for the PNW. Very well thought out.

[AJZimm]

Jeff,

Good to see that you have brought your build out into the light of public scrutiny. Great progress!

I like the modifications you are planning to turn the boat into more of a cruiser.

I realize the model is more concept than final details. The extended cabin is going to be a visually dominant feature of the completed boat. Here are some suggestions of what I would consider, were it my boat. If I read your model correctly, the forward face is rounded. While it would look cool, I can’t imagine how you are going to fit windows in it. You could get nearly the same effect with three or even two flat faces, canted in at the top. The sides of the cabin look to be nearly vertical on the model. I would cant them in a little more at the top. I think you have about the right amount of camber on the roof but I would extend the overhangs a little more.

[Yeadon]

Alex’s point makes sense. A developed three panel shape might work great for the forward end of the cabin.

Fun build. I don’t blame you for building without sharing on the forum. You get a bunch of opinionated guys coming along with goofy ideas about your build. For instance, guys like me.

[Michael_Owen]

Nice work! I'll be following. I'd love to have a Hylan Gatsby myself.
Gatsby.jpg

Mike

[jpatrick]

Thanks for all the encouragement. And yes about the cabin. The model I built is a rough concept sort of thing. It is hardly precise and doesn't reflect all that I had been considering. I did it mainly to satisfy myself that my revisions to Atkins' shear and cabin would be more or less not too ugly. The modeling is intended to reflect gross proportions and not actual details. Specifically, the rounded front was easier to make that a faceted front. But, faceted is indeed what I've long been thinking about.

I will take all suggestions to heart. I truly appreciate all comments.

Jeff

[timo4352]

Thanks for starting your build thread Jeff, I know I'm going to enjoy it.

[rgthom]

Wheee, a new Ninigret! Since you have thrown it out to the peanut gallery, and since I have thought a bit about this design, and since the Salish Sea actually has a lot of very nice days, I have to ask are you SURE a bigger hard cabin is better than the cuddy with a folding dodger/tent? I'm sure you have put a lot of thought in already, but there are some drawbacks of extra weight and windage and you cannot just lift it off on the hot (and getting hotter) days of summer.

Thumbs up on the stick steering, BTW. I was planning to try it on the electric Walkabout but a wheel fit better. There are two stick stations on Gartside's "Wayward".

[neil.henderson]

Jeff,
Once again you have picked a beautiful boat to build , SS 12 1/2 and now Ninigret.............. You are also so much like my neighbour who is an ex architect - he took plans for a motor launch I built & the changed & extended to what he wants. And then he built the hull from Huon pine - one of the loveliest motor boats I have seen, but then is is his 13th build.
The dual steering is a great idea though moving quickly in & out of the cabin might be tricky, suppose you can move to outside helming when approaching jetties, beaches etc.........

I'll be following this build - glued clinker is now firmly entrenched in my build thinking and I love the way you build boats I am now fitting out my Caledonia yawl and am pondering a Francois Vivier Jewell which I think would be just fabulous for puttering about with escape when it gets dreich (no that's not a typo).

Regards Neil

[jpatrick]

The first two topside planks were finally attached the first week of February. Then I began fitting the bottom ply which butts the topsides in the forward sections and overlaps aft. Starting in the stern, the first sheet was a piece of cake. The hull form here requires fairly flat pieces of ply. Moving forward, the scene begins to change dramatically about mid-ships, section 6. There the bottom begins it’s quest to go from nearly horizontal to vertical at the stem. Plywood doesn’t like to do this all that well, so one must get creative.


This is a photo of the bottom planking being fitted, stern view. The forward outboard corner of the ply is being supported by an auxiliary post. So the actual amount of twist still isn’t fully apparent.


IMG_4673 2.jpg


These next photos show the degree of twist necessary, and we’re still well aft of the stem. I found it very difficult to press the ply down to the frames here. First working on the starboard side, I put enough pressure on a clamp that I damaged the #4 frame. While the epoxy was curing on that fix I moved to the port side. Not wanting to repeat the mistake I decided to split the ply (you can see the saw kerf in the phots) over the batten as a way to relieve the pressure. This had the desired effect but created a whole new one. The two ply sections now want to diverge from one another. Had the gap been slight, I’d have simply gone ahead, but as it was I decided the gap was too much.
Trial fit of bt @ 3&4 —2.jpg

Trial fit of bt @ 3&4 —1.jpg


My solution was to simply cut the ply off just foward of station #4. With the shortened ply, bending down to the frames is pretty easy. And, going forward, I can still make it to the stem without having to scarf the plank.


Meanwhile, still fitting up at the bow, I’m gluing on the aft sections. Got the starboard side done yesterday afternoon. Seems like I’m good for one area at a time. The underneath cleanup of squeeze-out is not fun.


Aft btm planking.jpg


Jeff

[neil.henderson]

Underside cleanup is a test of knees, and if you can prevent gluing your hair.

Certainly you have some ply bending happening on that hull shape. On a Hartley I built I used to pour boiling water straight out of the kettle onto it & then lay hot wet towels on it - fairly sure this is not recommended in the manual but it did seem to provide the ply with some motivation to co-operate.

Regards Neil

[jpatrick]

Now working on the bottom forward sections.

The twist in the ply up at the bow becomes quite extreme. Most builders solve this by cutting the plywood into smaller, easier to bend, pieces. I don't think it could be done using 9mm in one 24"+/- wide piece. So I'm following Tim's lead and each side lengthwise and butting the two sections along the batten. Neil, you mentioned boiling water and towels... I've read of such technique before, but I just can't imagine the ply permanently taking the bend after such a thing. And one can't epoxy on soaking wet plywood. So.. how would that work?

Cutting and fitting the piece closest to the chine was relatively easy. Then I went to the adjacent piece and found it to be a lot more difficult. I struggled all day yesterday to fit that bugger and was ready to sink the boat at the end of the day. But a good nights rest helped and I got the piece to fit this morning. Took about an hour. But I don't think that would have happened without yesterday's climb up the learning curve.

After lunch I glued on the final midship section. The one I mentioned in post #17. No drama, just a lot of fussing. Again... the underside cleanup is still not fun. No photo, you'll just have to believe me!

This next photo is of my motor well:

Motor Well, 1.jpg

You'll notice that the ply on each side has its own distinct personality. They would have matched but "somebody" forgot to do the rounded corner cut on the first sheet. I was thinking about two different ways to build the well and simply forgot to leave the corner attached. The squared off image was the brighter in my brain at the moment.

Anyway, my question to you all is this: What are the pros and cons of finishing off this opening? I can imagine that simply squared off is very similar to a regular transom, so having it like that would be fine. Whereas the rounded corner maintains a bit more planing surface and maybe reduces turbulence. Maybe it doesn't make any difference at all? I'm very uncertain. I would appreciate any thoughts anyone can share. Thanks.

Jeff

[neil.henderson]

Hi Jeff,
Sorry I should have said - when I used boiling water & towels I left the ply to learn its new bend and dryout before I attempted gluing it. I was working full-time at the time so plenty of non boat building time.....................
So far I haven't started the chainsaw during a build - but have been very tempted at the less enjoyable parts. My chocolate Lab give me sidelong glances which say it all......

Regards Neil

[timo4352]

This next photo is of my motor well:

Motor Well, 1.jpg

You'll notice that the ply on each side has its own distinct personality. They would have matched but "somebody" forgot to do the rounded corner cut on the first sheet. I was thinking about two different ways to build the well and simply forgot to leave the corner attached. The squared off image was the brighter in my brain at the moment.

Anyway, my question to you all is this: What are the pros and cons of finishing off this opening? I can imagine that simply squared off is very similar to a regular transom, so having it like that would be fine. Whereas the rounded corner maintains a bit more planing surface and maybe reduces turbulence. Maybe it doesn't make any difference at all? I'm very uncertain. I would appreciate any thoughts anyone can share. Thanks.

Jeff

Jeff,
I remember being faced with the same question of the rounded corner....
I cut mine (well opening) square for simplicity,... and concluded the tiny loss of planing surface would be so minimal as to be inconsequential...
But...I would love to know when/ where/ if/ and/or/ how it would affect performance if rounded.
If you do go with the rounded,...I suggest thickening the "fin" some so it is not fragile...easy to do...

[AJZimm]

The twist in the ply up at the bow becomes quite extreme. Most builders solve this by cutting the plywood into smaller, easier to bend, pieces. I don't think it could be done using 9mm in one 24"+/- wide piece. So I'm following Tim's lead and each side lengthwise and butting the two sections along the batten. Neil, you mentioned boiling water and towels... I've read of such technique before, but I just can't imagine the ply permanently taking the bend after such a thing. And one can't epoxy on soaking wet plywood. So.. how would that work?
Jeff

I've done the same thing as Tim, although admittedly in not such wide planks, for the garboard planks both fore and aft on both the sail and oar boats I built. Like Tim, I let the whole lot cool down first, then removed the soaking toweling, then let it dry thoroughly. Even if the resulting twist is not all the way to where you want it, it is so much closer than the unheated/pre-bent condition that there is almost no force required to pull it down to the final position. I ended up with slightly raised grain in the surface ply where wood had been wetted, but that's all.

[jpatrick]

I've been steadily working to get the remaining ply on the bottom and today I found the last piece.

Last section of btm ply glued.jpg

Truth be told, I had time to attach it yesterday after doing the starboard side, but the ply sections meet at centerline and with my cutting outside the line, they ran into one another. So instead I spent yesterday afternoon trimming the previously attached areas aft of these. Lots of rough cutting with my jig saw then using various planing tools to get it a nice chine edge. Despite my best efforts, the bottom is turning out rather nice. There will be a couple of bazillion holes to fill and some fairing... or, maybe a lot of fairing, of course. But I'm actually looking forward to doing that. It will be a nice change of pace.

Here is another view of the bottom, from the stern:

View of btm. from stern.jpg

After the epoxy has done a good cure, I'll plane a 2" wide flat down the keel. This spot will receive the wood keel. To be attached later, after fiberglassing the bottom.

Meanwhile, I gave considerable thought to the motor well and decided to square off the forward corners. Others advised me that there is little planing surface to gain by filling in the corners and they would complicate the sheathing quite a bit. Another Ninigret owner told me that he has a squared off well and it has never caused any problems with turbulence. So that knowledge cinched it for me.

Here's the well with it's new corners:

Motor well opening.jpg

That brings the work up to date. I'll be clearing off my planking bench next to get the topside done. I'm doing five strakes on this boat with the shear plank being extra wide to accommodate the raised foredeck. And when not spiling and fitting planks, I'll be filling those holes from the clamping screws. A tedious but necessary job.

Jeff

[neil.henderson]

Hi Jeff,
You are making great progress here and the bottom lines look lovely. Unfortunately it looks as if you will be missing out on the fun of taking clinker planks around the turn of the bilge - never mind I'm sure there will be plenty of other planking challenges!

Good luck with the scarphing. Do you use template planks or rely on the spiling? I made a John Brooks spiling batten setup but didn't have the courage to risk my planking stock so went back to templates..................................silly me.

Regards Neil

[Liberty53]

Great work!

[jpatrick]

Hi Jeff,
You are making great progress here and the bottom lines look lovely. Unfortunately it looks as if you will be missing out on the fun of taking clinker planks around the turn of the bilge - never mind I'm sure there will be plenty of other planking challenges!

Good luck with the scarphing. Do you use template planks or rely on the spiling? I made a John Brooks spiling batten setup but didn't have the courage to risk my planking stock so went back to templates..................................silly me.

Regards Neil

Hi Neil. I use a modified Brooks' method. I like his adjustable batten but have foregone his bolted articulated joints. I simply use some small screws to affix butt blocks, of sorts, to the outer face. And I cannot make the compass method work at all. I understand why it ought to work, and I understand how to do it. But after three trials on my first boat, I gave it up. Now I just scribe the line using typical method of fitting base trim in a house. I employ either a simple compass/scribe or a small block of wood... whichever is most convenient for the particular plank. This works for me.

The first plank I made for ninigret was very easy to spile and I expect the rest will be quite straightforward. There is little beveling involved. A matter that was quite obvious to me after I fiddled a bit with some scrap stock on the frames. The Hydrotec plywood I'm using does put up a fight though. It resists being cut by my best planes. Kind of like the resistance that teak put up. I will prevail, however.

Jeff

[jpatrick]

I've been filling screw holes made for the clamping cauls. There are many but I think I've just about found the last one. Also will be doing some filling and fairing... working toward sheathing the bottom with fiberglass set in epoxy.

I have a rough plan. First, here is the boat:

Btm-Stern.jpg

Btm - Bow.jpg

I want to sheath the entire bottom, inside the motor well, and the lowest of the topside strakes (the one shown in the photos). It has been suggested to me that doing the sheathing before adding the next strake will eliminate a lot of trimming and masking. That makes sense to me, so that makes sheathing next in line on the to-do list.

This is what I plan to do:
1. Fair the boat as best as I can without going crazy. And keeping in mind that this isn't a race horse, little bit of lumpiness is OK.
2. Apply some strips of biaxial cloth along the chines, along the centerline under the future keel, and on the sharp edges along the transom and motor well sides and front. Let this harden overnight.
3. Lay the fiberglass cloth on one side of the hull up to the keel centerline, wet it out, smooth, etc.
4. If there is time that same day and I still have energy and my helper hasn't quit in disgust... Repeat #3 on the second side.
5. If there wasn't time, or whatever, do the second side the next day with one revision. Let the cloth overlap across the centerline edge of the first side.
6. Have a beer.

I've also thought that it might be advantageous to epoxy prime everything and let that cure before doing any glassing. The reason being that I know that maranti plywood is very thirsty stuff so a precoating will reduce the worry of epoxy starvation in the glassing phase.

There are bound to be some flaws in this plan. And there are probably better ways to do it. Please advise and comment. Be frank but understand that this plan is a work in progress.

Thanks.

Jeff

[AJZimm]

Re: biaxial cloth along chines. I followed Russell Brown’s practice of cutting the strips out of regular cloth, a little wider that you would otherwise, and pulling out the longitudinal threads of the cloth, leaving the athwartships threads. That way you get a tapering effect between that and the cloth that goes on top, without having to sand much, or at all, to prevent a lump at the edge of the strips.

Re: Epoxy priming everything before laying down the cloth. I wouldn’t do it. On my last boat, I just laid the cloth on the dry sanded wood and was generous with the epoxy, to ensure good saturation of the wood and good bond with the cloth. You aren’t going to be able to epoxy it down to the wood and fill the weave completely all in one go in any case. My experience is that if you try, you’ll get sags and runs on the more vertical parts of the hull. Better to do it in two or three applications. I used System Three Silvertip epoxy for the cloth – it is low enough viscosity that it seems to soak into even porous wood and wet out the cloth well.

[jpatrick]

Alex, thank you for your thoughts. I will review Russel's video again. I sort of remember that episode. Another viewing is on my list to-do before I proceed. I will also take another look at your thread.

Jeff

[jpatrick]

Not much new to report... I've been prepping the bottom sheathing to get it ready for applying the fiberglass cloth. That means trimming ply edges and some fairing with thickened epoxy. Along the way I also have beveled the first strakes. They are now ready for me to spile for the next strakes.

One bit of good news, for me at least. After I trimmed the ply along the stem I was curious what the final width dimension turned out to be. Having lofted this boat with the limited experience that I have, the thought of having the thing turn out as Atkin intended was a bit of a gamble. So, I'm happy to say that, at least, the stem width which is supposed to be 2", is correct:

Stem measurment.jpg

I'm happy with that.

Another question I have is re the glassing of the ply: Should I use peel ply or not? I understand that if used correctly the peel ply will give me a better surface. But with my limited/non-existent experience (I've never even touched the stuff.) should I attempt it? It seems like it could add a layer of complexity to an already hectic sounding procedure. I'd appreciate all thoughts. Thanks.

Jeff

[AJZimm]

Jeff,

I used peel ply for the taped joints but not the hull sheathing. It was an attempt to further smooth the edges of the tapes to reduce the amount of scraping and sanding that I needed to do before applying the sheathing layer. It worked reasonably well, especially where I was generous with the epoxy to begin with - made a smooth edge.

I bought actual dedicated peel ply tape for the first layer of seams on the tapes (had to order it from an amateur airplane building supply site - local place didn't carry it), but then I got clever for the second, wider layer that the design called for. I figured that instead of the dedicated stuff, which as I recall was hard to source in the width I needed, I would use fabric store thin rip-stop nylon, cut up as needed. It didn't work as well as the dedicated stuff - the weave was too tight, I think, and didn't soak up the excess as well.

[neil.henderson]

Peel ply can work very well when used correctly - a couple of people in our group have used it with a very nice finish as a result. But, I think it depends on having the right product and using it correctly - then it gives a lovely smooth finish with almost no sanding required! So, in your situation I'd try to find someone locally who can come around and give you some advice & help.
Or, there are some very good fibreglassing videos on Off Center Harbor website, would they help?

Regards Neil

[Eric Hvalsoe]

Jeff to clarify your treatment of the bottom plank towards the bow -
You ended a single panel at station 4, apron to chine - then carried forward with two narrower panels to the stem, butted along the stringer...?
If so, was the thwartship seam for all these parts along the centerline of a station 4 frame? ... a sister ... a doubler... am I making any sense...
Remind me if you bent these bow panels cold, or used steam or hot water. Thanks
E
very cool, by the way!

[jpatrick]

I've taken another look at your build thread, Alex. I think your approach makes a lot of sense. The edges are the areas of greatest transition and so anything that can be done there to minimize the fairing work is a good thing. Russel Brown's videos on OFC are also a great reference. He makes it look so easy, but I know it's not.

I really don't think I'll have a terribly difficult time doing this glassing. I put Dynel on the fore and after decks of my Somes Sound by myself. That job was smaller but it went on without a fuss. My neighbor will be helping with this boat, so that will help smooth things out.

Eric, thanks for looking on. Here's another photo that shows where the forward ply seams are:

Btm Ready 1.jpg

The forward athwartship seam is about 4 inches forward of #4 frame. The longitudinal seam lies on the batten or what I think you are calling the stringer. I epoxyed butt blocks to all the athwartship seams on the inside. I bent all the ply cold with no steam, hot water, or evil incantations. I do confess to uttering a couple of colorful words. The ply actually behaved itself remarkably well. One surprising element for me was the degree that its position could be varied simply by altering the order of where I screwed it down. I found a pattern that best allowed it to best conform to the frames and stuck with that. Roughly, I began at the stern edge and let the ply fold itself down as I moved progressively forward.

Jeff

[Eric Hvalsoe]

Butt blocks between the battens yup, thanks Jeff. We are building a big Garden pram at the Center, with Occume. Bit of a wrap round to the forward transom. We initially fit and fastened the bottom forward with hot water. Upon removal the next day the plywood had taken zero shape, hot water did nothing. Just as well glued up right off the bat. I was thinking of sheathing the bottom first than doubling the chines with tape, I can see going either way for that sequence.