Steam bending kiln dried red oak

[jensenflagg]

A basic question here. I'm correcting an issue on my new Catspaw dinghy. and I want to bend 1/2 x 3/4 store bought red oak (kiln dried) for frames to support my floorboards that were screwed to the boat's frames.Should I and how long should I soak the wood before steaming and will about 1/2 hour steaming be proper? Thanks for the advice.

[Gordon Bartlett]

I have never soaked wood before steaming it. I have just put it right into the steam box.
I have never steamed red oak, but I have steamed white oak; green, air dried, and kiln dried.
I didn't notice any difference. They all got softly flexible. In no case did I push the bends to the limit. Just "normal" bends for frames and coamings and such.
If I had a more extreme bend to make, I would locate some green wood simply because I have always heard that green wood is better for steam bending.
And, yes, 1/2 hour sounds about right for 1/2" thick wood.
One hour per inch of thickness is what I have always read and heard.

[willin woodworks]

Grain orientation is probably more important than how long you steam the wood. If you have grain runout in kiln dried wood its going to split along the grain almost no matter how long you steam it.
Dont bother soaking it, just steam it.

[jpatrick]

If you can successfully steam bend kiln dried red oak, then you are a better person than I am. Way back in the 70's, living in Alaska, I was into sled dog mushing. A friend and I decided to build dog sleds. The hardwood selection there was minimal, to say the least. Red oak, kiln dried, was the best we could find. I never could get the stuff steam bent beyond a few degrees. Broke a lot of wood trying. Tried soaking it in the bath tub for a week, steamed for well over an hour.... no way. I discovered the joys of laminating.

Green wood or maybe even air dried is the way to finding joy.

Jeff

[jensenflagg]

I have never soaked wood before steaming it. I have just put it right into the steam box.
I have never steamed red oak, but I have steamed white oak; green, air dried, and kiln dried.
I didn't notice any difference. They all got softly flexible. In no case did I push the bends to the limit. Just "normal" bends for frames and coamings and such.
If I had a more extreme bend to make, I would locate some green wood simply because I have always heard that green wood is better for steam bending.
And, yes, 1/2 hour sounds about right for 1/2" thick wood.
One hour per inch of thickness is what I have always read and heard.

Thanks, I don't need a lot of bend so I'll give it a half hour and see.

[jensenflagg]

Grain orientation is probably more important than how long you steam the wood. If you have grain runout in kiln dried wood its going to split along the grain almost no matter how long you steam it.
Dont bother soaking it, just steam it.

Found a piece of 1 x 2 with nice straight grain. I'll rip it and give it a try, thanks for the advice.

[TerryLL]

Red oak is a bad choice, especially where it will be in contact with water in the bilge. Rot happens quickly.

[sp_clark]

Where you hail from jensenflagg I'd look to finding a source for cypress for those floor frames. You won't need much, and you won't have to replace 'em nearly as soon as if you use red oak.

There's an outfit not far from you up in Hudson I'd suggest to look into, may give you more options that what you're contemplating. If they can't supply cypress they may have something that'll serve almost as well & they know their woods.

[willin woodworks]

True enough, cypress is much better choice and probably cheaper

[jensenflagg]

Red oak is a bad choice, especially where it will be in contact with water in the bilge. Rot happens quickly.

Thank you. Thought since frames are white oak red would be okay. Learned something today.

[jensenflagg]

Where you hail from jensenflagg I'd look to finding a source for cypress for those floor frames. You won't need much, and you won't have to replace 'em nearly as soon as if you use red oak.

There's an outfit not far from you up in Hudson I'd suggest to look into, may give you more options that what you're contemplating. If they can't supply cypress they may have something that'll serve almost as well & they know their woods.

Never realized we have a near by source for wood other than standard lumber yard. Thank you. I'll take a trip up, not far. Thanks, How would cedar do?

[Yeadon]

Thank you. Thought since frames are white oak red would be okay. Learned something today.

Worth a watch.

[David G]

I don't like bending kd stock. Every time I've done it, I've soaked it as long as possible beforehand. I don't believe that has a huge effect. Maybe even none? Or only some? With kd stock, I'm gonna take ever step possible toward success. My experience says best bending stock is in the 20-25% mc range. And it works better to catch that elevator on the way down, rather than attempt to re-moisturize.

Pick clear, straight grained stock. Don't even think about not using a compression strap. Decent success rate so far.

[jensenflagg]

Worth a watch.

The man is great. I killed an hour already on his videos.

[sp_clark]

How would cedar do?

Bunchawoods're called 'cedar' so answering your question's gonna be a bit vague.

Some are, many aren't.

Where you are I don't think there are too many true cedars, i.e. members of the Cupressus family. What's more likely is Eastern Red Cedar which is a juniper, not a true cedar.

But they're all softwoods, make for good planking but maybe not for structural members that will be taking fasteners.

Juniper makes my nose run & skin crawl, I guess I'm allergic to it....

When you get with that outfit in Hudson, ask 'em what the general run of common wood types that they see might be. I'd be looking for a hardwood myself, like your white oak frames. Local knowledge of what woods are available makes a good resource of that kind of operation.

Where I am there's something called black locust, used for centuries for fence posts & other things that are intended to endure exposure to wind & weather. Doubt you'll find that down there but if you do it's worth your investigation.

[Rich Jones]

I steam bent 1/2" by 4" red oak for the cockpit coamings on my fantail launch.
I couldn't get any white oak, so settled for the red since it was not an area that would be subjected to standing water.
I bought it at a good lumberyard but it was the standard red oak and assumed to be kiln-dried.
It bent with no problem at all. I was quite amazed.

IMG_3690.jpg

[jensenflagg]

Bunchawoods're called 'cedar' so answering your question's gonna be a bit vague.

Some are, many aren't.

Where you are I don't think there are too many true cedars, i.e. members of the Cupressus family. What's more likely is Eastern Red Cedar which is a juniper, not a true cedar.

But they're all softwoods, make for good planking but maybe not for structural members that will be taking fasteners.

Juniper makes my nose run & skin crawl, I guess I'm allergic to it....

When you get with that outfit in Hudson, ask 'em what the general run of common wood types that they see might be. I'd be looking for a hardwood myself, like your white oak frames. Local knowledge of what woods are available makes a good resource of that kind of operation.

Where I am there's something called black locust, used for centuries for fence posts & other things that are intended to endure exposure to wind & weather. Doubt you'll find that down there but if you do it's worth your investigation.

Eastern Red Cedar it is. I used it to replace the wooden parts on an old ComPac Picnic Cat, nothing structural. Seemed fine, epoxied and varnished. The use here will not be structural as the frames will rest against the hull, floorboards screwed to them. Know black locust well, used for fence posts in Vermont. Not found here. Thanks again.

[jensenflagg]

I steam bent 1/2" by 4" red oak for the cockpit coamings on my fantail launch.
I couldn't get any white oak, so settled for the red since it was not an area that would be subjected to standing water.
I bought it at a good lumberyard but it was the standard red oak and assumed to be kiln-dried.
It bent with no problem at all. I was quite amazed.

IMG_3690.jpg

Pretty boat. Assume you have an engine in there somewhere? What powers it?

[Dave Hadfield]

Generally, k-d red oak is quite brittle. Not your best choice.

Can you find a sawmill in your area? Perhaps you can get some while it's green.

[wizbang 13]

I steam bent 1/2" by 4" red oak for the cockpit coamings on my fantail launch.
I couldn't get any white oak, so settled for the red since it was not an area that would be subjected to standing water.
I bought it at a good lumberyard but it was the standard red oak and assumed to be kiln-dried.
It bent with no problem at all. I was quite amazed.

IMG_3690.jpg

That coaming is steamed red oak? I gotta re think my drink!! Well
Done!

[Rich Jones]

Pretty boat. Assume you have an engine in there somewhere? What powers it?

24V E-Tech electric pod behind the skeg.

[Rich Jones]

That coaming is steamed red oak? I gotta re think my drink!! Well
Done!

It was sold to me as red oak, standard stuff you find in a good quality lumberyard. I never thought it would work either but cheap enough to give it a try. It bent around the form like a wet noodle.

[John Meachen]

I steam bent 1/2" by 4" red oak for the cockpit coamings on my fantail launch.
I couldn't get any white oak, so settled for the red since it was not an area that would be subjected to standing water.
I bought it at a good lumberyard but it was the standard red oak and assumed to be kiln-dried.
It bent with no problem at all. I was quite amazed.

IMG_3690.jpg

Seeing the launch has brightened up my day,thanks for that.

[jensenflagg]

24V E-Tech electric pod behind the skeg.

Very nice. Family heirloom there.

[Mrleft88]

I'm about to cut down a few Live Oaks. I'd be happy to have you take the logs to have them milled. Around here no one wants them, and they aren't enough of them for places like Mystic to bother with.

[sp_clark]

I'm about to cut down a few Live Oaks. I'd be happy to have you take the logs to have them milled. Around here no one wants them, and they aren't enough of them for places like Mystic to bother with.

Trenton to Tarpon Springs is what, two hours' drive?

And Hudson's in between?

Jensenflagg from what you've posted I'd trust ERC to work fine for your floorboard frames. Light, relatively rot-resistant, not going to be soaking in standing water for days or weeks and easily replaced when the time comes.

Have you had a chance to get in touch with Pasco's Bill Kromer? I'd at minimum inquire about whether the live oak Mrleft88's got for the taking would be worth picking up & cutting into usable material.

From this thread here there may be some confusion over local naming; the live oak best for boats may not be the 'live oak' he's offering.

[Mrleft88]

This Live Oak is Quercus Virginiana.
Hudson is a bit more than 2 hours south of here.

[sp_clark]

This Live Oak is Quercus Virginiana.
Hudson is a bit more than 2 hours south of here.

Appropriate stuff for a boat then:

https://www.thelivingurn.com/blogs/n...ing-in-america

Wishing I were closer than I am... hope somebody takes you up on your offer!