I need a construction consult

[bluedog225]

I’m planning to attach common 1x4 pine boards to my rafters. From these, I’ll hang nickel gap pine boards. Probably 6” to 8” wide.

A couple of questions. Can I attach the 1x4s to the rafters using a couple of 15 gauge nails or would you recommend a deck screw or two? It’s only about 600 square feet total. Not a huge amount of extra work to screw it. The only weight on the 1x4s will be the nickel gap and about 15” of cellulose insulation.

And what spacing would you recommend for the 1x4s? I was thinking 24” spacing but I just pulled that out of my….thin air.

Many thanks

[David W Pratt]

"Not a huge amount of extra work..."
You answered your own question.
You will probably never regret higher quality.
Screws facilitate revision/modification vs nails.

[stromborg]

I think nails driven by a pneumatic gun will be the easiest and sufficient. One hand for the board, one for the nailer. You could add a dab of construction adhesive if you're really worried about the furring strips.

What keeps the cellulose insulation from drifting down between the nickle-gap planks? Are you gluing those together?

[bluedog225]

It will have whatever that insulation netting is that they use and some semi permeable membrane. Or kraft paper.

[L.W. Baxter]

i wouldn't bother with screws. overhead screwing is a pain in the neck.

i would use 8d framing nails, but if all i had was a 15 gauge finish nailer i would use it, three or four 2.5" nails, pop pop pop. it'll be fine.

[Rich Jones]

I did the same to my cathedral ceiling with pine 1x8 boards.
You will never regret screwing the 1x4 strapping in place.
A little extra work but you never have to worry about the nails loosening as the
wood dries.
2' on center is fine.

[bluedog225]

I embraced nail guns late in life. I thought there was a moral virtue in hand nailing everything. I’m completely over it. Another one wouldn’t bother me at all. As with most things, I’ll probably try both and see which I like. Good thing this is my starter cabin. The next one will be awesome.

[L.W. Baxter]

you are nailing into microlam, right? any kind of nail or staple will hold.

the danger would be the tiny heads of finish nails pulling through the pine if it moves with humidity, as rich suggests could happen.

not very likely with kiln dried pine, imo, but if i had a framing or siding gun that could drive nails with heads on them, or a sheathing stapler, that's what i would use.

[bluedog225]

Got it. Thanks

[Jim Bow]

I thought nickel gap was the name of a rock band.

[chas]

Framing gun nails for sure, you will be on to the next board before the first one is tacked in place when you’re using screws. Use two or three 2 1/4 inch nails and angle them inwards about 10°.
type of cellulose insulation and rafter spacing has an impact on centres regarding strapping. If your rafters were 2 feet on centre then I would install strapping at 16 inches on center. TnG boards like to be nailed on 16 inch centers, particularly if they’re a bit wavy and need to be pulled in tight, or if the boards experience extremes in humidity. / Jim

[Jimmy W]

I thought nickel gap was the name of a rock band.

Nickel Creek is a bluegrass band.

[hawkeye54]

Tom, back in the early 2000's I helped my brother-in-law put up an acoustical plank ceiling in a store we built in an old 1853 building ( these were tongue and groove 'planks' with a woodgrain finish - designed to be stained or painted to resemble wood ) The original ceiling was narrow tongue and groove wood planking, not in the best shape. We were stapling the planks to the wood ceiling, and I recommended the use of construction adhesive to hold the planking - in the interest of speed of install, my BIL determined to install with only staples. One morning, we opened the store and found the entire acoustic plank ceiling had fallen to the floor. We altered plans and put in a commercial dropped ceiling framework and panels. YMMV. . .

Rick

[jpatrick]

What is nickel gap pine?

Jeff

[bluedog225]

It’s a pattern. Something like this. Roughly a nickel gap between the boards. Need to be pre-painted.

1C4CF02C-9408-42C5-A6EC-0D1D177D9952.jpgEEFD72AF-8326-47BE-B0DF-FECBBBA33C9C.jpg

[birlinn]

It will have whatever that insulation netting is that they use and some semi permeable membrane. Or kraft paper.

Directly above a ceiling you need a vapour barrier, not semi-permeable.
Keep the moisture out of the insulation.

[jpatrick]

Directly above a ceiling you need a vapour barrier, not semi-permeable.
Keep the moisture out of the insulation.

That depends on location/heating environment. Here in Washington state, we have a really wet external environment. Therefore we build to allow wall drying to the interior. My house has a rain screen exterior that is designed to keep rain water out of the wall. That barrier will also keep moisture in the wall, thus the allowance for internal drying. There are no inside vapor barriers on my house at all.

Jeff

[robm]

And yet, a few miles north across the 49th parallel with the same wet external environment, construction is completely different, with full vapour barriers on the interior of the wall, and Tyvek house wrap to seal out the rain.

[bluedog225]

I am going to heroic lengths to provide circulation above the cellulose but below the roof deck, because my time is without value.

I can argue both sides on whether to completely block vapor at the ceiling. I will air seal it. There are some pretty interesting membranes with variable permeability to water vapor.

This is a high humidity primarily cooling environment. At some point, up in the cellulose, the warm humid exterior air will hit the cooler insulation.

[chas]

An approved rain screen exterior treatment will not keep moisture in an exterior wall. While the Gulf Islands and Puget sound area have a mild enough…just…. climate to allow playing fast and loose with vapour barriers the lack of which certainly has not been considered as better building practise.
Southern states have their own particular needs as to treatment of water vapour in wall and ceiling cavities. Perhaps Bluedog will update us as to how he deals with this aspect of his project. / Jim

[StevenBauer]

I’ve put up acres of nickel-gap and the advice here so far is pretty good. 16” on center for the 1x4 firring strips. More than 15 gauge finish nails. Either staples, screws or 8d ring shank sheathing nails. Screwing doesn’t necessarily slow you down any - have you seen a modern drywall crew in action?

[bluedog225]

Good info. Yes, those screw guns are awesome. I’ll probably just suffer.

Now that I look at it, I may be stuck at 24” centers without some additional framing.

What did you use to attach the nickel gap itself?

[StevenBauer]

15 gauge finish nails. On 16” centers that’s plenty. Trim screws would also work. Trim screws are awesome.