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Thread: Deep vs Shallow Water Boats

  1. #36
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    Default Re: Deep vs Shallow Water Boats

    Quote Originally Posted by pez_leon View Post
    Thanks to Edward and Tom for the tip on the Lugworm Chronicles. I've got a copy coming to me in the mail.
    I didn't know about those books. They look interesting. Thanks for the information.
    I did some weekend beach camping trips with friends in sea kayaks at some of the Aegean islands and I can tell you it's wonderful. Especially when you reach small beaches without access from the road and you have the whole beach for yourself.

    I like Welsford designs and they have very good reputation. I haven't carefully studied his smaller boats. I will do it now.
    Last edited by ghostdog; 02-03-2023 at 05:02 AM.

  2. #37
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    Default Re: Deep vs Shallow Water Boats

    Quote Originally Posted by peter radclyffe View Post
    seaworthy,bad weather,deep water, better to have a deep keel
    I understand that this is the ideal solution, but I can't maintain such a boat.
    So either I make some kind of compromise or I don't built it at all. All boats are a compromise in one area or an other after all.

  3. #38
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    Default Re: Deep vs Shallow Water Boats

    Quote Originally Posted by ghostdog View Post
    I didn't know about those books. They look interesting. Thanks for the information.
    I did some weekend beach camping trips with friends in sea kayaks at some of the Aegean islands and I can tell you it's wonderful. Especially when you reach small beaches without access from the road and you have the whole beach for yourself.

    I like Welsford designs and they have very good reputation. I haven't carefully studied his smaller boats. I will do it now.
    Walkabout is a favorite of mine. Long Steps looks like even more capable (water ballast), still rowable, with some built-in shelter, but a more complicated build.

    Tom
    Ponoszenie konsekwencji!

    www.tompamperin.com

  4. #39
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    Default Re: Deep vs Shallow Water Boats

    I have come across plans for a strip plank gozzo on the www. Three different lengths. I don't have a link at the moment but will search if you desire.

  5. #40
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    Default Re: Deep vs Shallow Water Boats


  6. #41
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    Default Re: Deep vs Shallow Water Boats

    Quote Originally Posted by Gary Davis View Post
    I have come across plans for a strip plank gozzo on the www. Three different lengths. I don't have a link at the moment but will search if you desire.
    Thank you. I have seen them too.

    http://www.bcademco.it/EN/piani.html#1

    They are from an Italian designer and they are also available at duckworks and woodenboat online stores.
    They look nice but I would like to find any information how they perform. The site looks very professional and the cost is not big. They are on my short list.

  7. #42
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    Default Re: Deep vs Shallow Water Boats

    If you don't mind modern-style boats, Eric Henseval has some interesting designs in your size range.

    I really like his V448, a row/sail boat with lots of beam (though fairly narrow at WL for rowing), roller-furling mainsail, weighted centerboard if desired, and room to sleep on board.

    Importantly, there is also a fully self-draining cockpit which in my long-ago experience in Lasers and other board boats, adds greatly to confidence in open water. No need to let go of the sheet & tiller to bail a waterlogged unstable boat.

    https://duckworks.com/v448-v2-plans/


    Last edited by Jack Loudon; 02-03-2023 at 04:35 PM.

  8. #43
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    Default Re: Deep vs Shallow Water Boats

    I wouldn't mind a modern design but this particular is too modern for my taste.

  9. #44
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    Default Re: Deep vs Shallow Water Boats

    That Gozzo speaks to me! It would be easy enough to strip plank and glass inside and out. A traditional rig would keep the cost as low as possible. What's not to like?
    -Dave

  10. #45
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    Default Re: Deep vs Shallow Water Boats

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    So if you can find the plans of a small trad boat from your coast, you could easily build her strip planked, and use either beach stone in bags, or water in big cans for disposable ballast.
    Has anyone done something like that before? Find the lines and offsets for an old design you like and actually build a boat?
    The ballast will be needed to compensate for the weight difference. These old boats were really heavy.
    Last edited by ghostdog; 02-04-2023 at 10:56 AM.

  11. #46
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    Default Re: Deep vs Shallow Water Boats

    Quote Originally Posted by ghostdog View Post
    Has anyone done something like that before? Find the lines and offsets for an old design you like and actually build a boat?
    The ballast will be needed to compensate for the weight difference. These old boats were really heavy.
    Yes of course, in the US, Norway, Denmark, the UK that I know of. They often do not need to change the construction methoda to reduce the weight, but as long as your shell and longitudianl structure scantlings are the same, you can as you realised use ballast to set her to her marks and for stability.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

    The power of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web
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  12. #47
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    Default Re: Deep vs Shallow Water Boats

    Quote Originally Posted by ghostdog View Post
    Has anyone done something like that before? Find the lines and offsets for an old design you like and actually build a boat?
    The ballast will be needed to compensate for the weight difference. These old boats were really heavy.
    You will definitely want to make sure you have the knowledge and skills to do this so that you can do it well - if not, find a good designer/builder who can.
    Clinton B. Chase
    Portland, Maine

    http://tinyurl.com/myboats

  13. #48
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    Default Re: Deep vs Shallow Water Boats

    I have "some" knowledge enough to try it in a scale model for example, but not enough to invest all the money and time to a full scale boat. And of course not enough to trust my life in it.

  14. #49
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    Default Re: Deep vs Shallow Water Boats

    I always change a few bits in the boats I build, but I wouldn't build a whole boat without a proper plan. At least not yet.

  15. #50
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    Default Re: Deep vs Shallow Water Boats

    If you are going to build a boat, you need to choose one that fires your cells in some deep and hot emotional / motivational way. Yes, choose something you will have a chance to use where you live, but if you have two unfinished boats in the basement then clearly you have issues you need to address with the next one :-)

    Ken

  16. #51
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    Default Re: Deep vs Shallow Water Boats

    I know, I am addicted. I need help!

  17. #52
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    Default Re: Deep vs Shallow Water Boats

    Quote Originally Posted by ghostdog View Post
    I know, I am addicted. I need help!
    Be careful, this lot are by nature pushers, this is not Boatbuilders Anonymous.
    I'd much rather lay in my bunk all freakin day lookin at Youtube videos .

  18. #53
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    Default Re: Deep vs Shallow Water Boats

    Quote Originally Posted by ghostdog View Post
    Traditional wooden boats here are round bottomed, carvel planked, permanently moored and weight more than a car does. All the others are plastic with outboards.
    These traditional boats are not suitable for amateur boatbuilders, or trailerable.
    I rekon that traditional Greek boats are built the way they are for a good reason. Your sunlight is very strong and will dry out a boat quickly. Therefore carvel planking which can be recaulked is better than clinker which often cracks under such conditions.
    A flat bottom really has no advantage on a boat that doesn't have to be hauled ashore on a sandy beach nor have to stay upright in a drying out mooring at low tide nor as to float in very shallow water. A round bottom boat is generally more seaworthy in the sort of crisscrossing short waves that I imagine there would be in the Greek archipelago.

    However it should be possible to build a lighter round bottomed boat suitable for Greek conditions....... such boats do exist in various parts of Europe but they aren't very trendy at the moment.
    Amateur living on the western coast of Finland

  19. #54
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    Default Re: Deep vs Shallow Water Boats

    Quote Originally Posted by heimlaga View Post
    However it should be possible to build a lighter round bottomed boat suitable for Greek conditions....... such boats do exist in various parts of Europe but they aren't very trendy at the moment.
    You are right about the local conditions. Could you please give one or more examples of such boats?

  20. #55
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    Default Re: Deep vs Shallow Water Boats

    Quote Originally Posted by ghostdog View Post
    You are right about the local conditions. Could you please give one or more examples of such boats?
    What are you looking for?
    Rowboat?
    Sailboat?
    Displacement motorboat?

    -I come to think of Canadian Bush Island doubleenders and American peapods.
    -A small slätbåt (a peculiar version of scandinavian doubleender smooth on the outside) of the type formerly built on the Finnish coast between Kristinestad and Björneborg could be carvel built or strip planked instead of the traditional half lap clinker. Their hull shape would not look foreign in Greece though the hull is longer in proportion to beam and depth.
    -In Hälsingland in Sweden they built some very shapely and seaworthy strip planked double ended fishing boats starting in the 1930-ies. I wonder if drawings could be found.
    -Stjernesnekke is an 18 foot norwegian double ended sailboat often carvel planked yet sometimes strip planked.

    I am thinking about a boat that would be sort of related to the traditional double ended greek frishing boat but a bit lighter and sleeker and either carvel or strip planked.
    Amateur living on the western coast of Finland

  21. #56
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    Default Re: Deep vs Shallow Water Boats

    Thank you.

    I have never heard of most of these boats. I will research more about them.
    Scandinavian working boats are famous for being seaworthy.

  22. #57
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    Default Re: Deep vs Shallow Water Boats

    Clinker plywood would be another building method that might work in your climate. Personally I find plywood terribly difficult to work but plenty of amateurs have succsessfully built clinker plywood boats like the ones designed by Ian Oughtred for instance.
    Amateur living on the western coast of Finland

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