Liberals... well, you know.

Collapse
X
 
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • webishop14
    Senior Member
    • Aug 2015
    • 3534

    #16
    Re: Liberals... well, you know.

    Organizing liberals is like herding cats.

    One definition of liberal is: widely distributed. Thus non-homogeneous. Conservatives prefer people who look and think like they do. Homogeneous.
    “Aren’t you supposed to be the gentlemen who lie for the good of their country?”
    “That’s diplomats. We’re not gentlemen.”
    “So you lie to save your hides.”
    That’s politicians. Different game entirely.”

    Comment

    • David W Pratt
      Senior Member
      • May 2005
      • 12326

      #17
      Re: Liberals... well, you know.

      Originally posted by Keith Wilson
      That cartoon's about 10% truth, 90% bullsh!t.
      Pretty good in today's market.

      Comment

      • Paul Pless
        pinko commie tree hugger
        • Oct 2003
        • 124833

        #18
        Re: Liberals... well, you know.

        Originally posted by Breakaway
        Republicans cater to and cultivate an audience of mostly like-minded people.
        i dont find this to be necessarily true

        from 1930 through 1980 republicans had a fairly broad coalition made up first and foremost of anti tax anti regulation anti economic interventionist economists, financiers, bankers and businessmen

        that group was empowered by a larger voting block of populist nativists and isolationists, which you would nominally find at odds with the economic policies of the above

        they were unified by republican attitudes about small govt, small taxes, and anticorruption (making nixon the more so ironical)

        in the eighties through to the tea party, you can add the christian anti abortion coalition to the above, and also big business really got their **** together

        so generally republicans have always been good at forming a broad yet disparate coalition, until now

        now they have antitaxers, antiabortion, and populist white nativitists
        Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

        Comment

        • Tom Montgomery
          Lurking since 1997
          • Sep 1999
          • 35616

          #19
          Re: Liberals... well, you know.

          Originally posted by CWSmith
          They made a deal with the devil and the devil wants his due.
          Originally posted by Keith Wilson
          Indeed. It's a process that started with 'energize the base' about 1980.
          Correct. The Republican Party pandered for the vote of the lowest common denominator for decades. The lowest common denominator became increasingly frustrated as their
          Republican politicians, once elected, ignored their basest desires. But the day came when one of their own not only ran for POTUS but -- due to reaction to a two-term African American POTUS -- actually won. Now the tail wags the Republican dog. And the vast majority of 21st century Republican office holders lack the conviction and backbone to challenge the lowest common denominator. We have seen one after another retire rather than do so. And so the GQP is losing traditional Republicans who increasingly either stay away from the voting booth, vote for third party candidates, or vote for the Democratic lesser of two evils.
          .
          Last edited by Tom Montgomery; 01-30-2023, 05:12 PM.
          "They have a lot of stupid people that vote in their primaries. They really do. I'm not really supposed to say that but it's an obvious fact. But when stupid people vote, you know who they nominate? Other stupid people." -- James Carville on the plethora of low-quality GQP candidates in the mid-term election.

          Comment

          • rbgarr
            43.50.918 N, 69.38.583 W
            • Apr 1999
            • 25479

            #20
            Re: Liberals... well, you know.

            I'm not sure that 'coming together' to 'win' either in the public mind or in politics is the end-all and be-all of a good society. Yet it seems to have become so.
            For the most part experience is making the same mistakes over and over again, only with greater confidence.

            Comment

            • Breakaway
              Senior Member
              • Mar 2007
              • 28419

              #21
              Re: Liberals... well, you know.

              Originally posted by Paul Pless
              i dont find this to be necessarily true

              from 1930 through 1980 republicans had a fairly broad coalition made up first and foremost of anti tax anti regulation anti economic interventionist economists, financiers, bankers and businessmen

              that group was empowered by a larger voting block of populist nativists and isolationists, which you would nominally find at odds with the economic policies of the above

              they were unified by republican attitudes about small govt, small taxes, and anticorruption (making nixon the more so ironical)

              in the eighties through to the tea party, you can add the christian anti abortion coalition to the above, and also big business really got their **** together

              so generally republicans have always been good at forming a broad yet disparate coalition, until now

              now they have antitaxers, antiabortion, and populist white nativitists
              I meant , " current republicans, " of course.

              Just consider antiabortionists--this cohort represents a large chunk of actual people.

              But, we also need to remember, many moderates feel more akin to the clean cut " traditional" valued, suburban typical anti-abortionists. At least compared to possibly brown, or mixed race, urban, single, LBBTQ people, etc.

              Same can be said for anti-taxers and nativists and more. Groups who attract intersecting cohorts, not like them, but more like them than the opposition, are powerful.

              It's not so much if I am one of them. The salient fact is whose club would I join given the choice between the two?

              Kevin
              There are two kinds of boaters: those who have run aground, and those who lie about it.

              Comment

              • CWSmith
                New Hampshire
                • Nov 2008
                • 44020

                #22
                Re: Liberals... well, you know.

                Originally posted by Tom Montgomery
                But the day came when one of their own not only ran for POTUS but -- due to reaction to a two-term African American POTUS -- actually won.
                I must confess that I had no idea that racism was as alive and well in this country as Trump showed it to be. He fanned the flames and made it acceptable to be a racist again.
                "Where you live in the world should not determine whether you live in the world." - Bono

                "Live in such a way that you would not be ashamed to sell your parrot to the town gossip." - Will Rogers

                "Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others." - Groucho Marx

                Comment

                • David W Pratt
                  Senior Member
                  • May 2005
                  • 12326

                  #23
                  Re: Liberals... well, you know.

                  Don't know if this will help, but my sense is that Bernie Sanders would have beaten Donald Trump easily via an unusual mix of voters.
                  Everyone who voted for Hillary Clinton would have voted for Mr. Sanders. Many people who voted for Mr. Trump would have voted for Sanders.
                  a proportion of people who voted for neither, but wrote in, or voted for another party's candidate would have voted for him.

                  Comment

                  • Tom Montgomery
                    Lurking since 1997
                    • Sep 1999
                    • 35616

                    #24
                    Re: Liberals... well, you know.

                    .
                    Liberals refuse to accept that perfect is the enemy of good.
                    .
                    Last edited by Tom Montgomery; 01-30-2023, 07:10 PM.
                    "They have a lot of stupid people that vote in their primaries. They really do. I'm not really supposed to say that but it's an obvious fact. But when stupid people vote, you know who they nominate? Other stupid people." -- James Carville on the plethora of low-quality GQP candidates in the mid-term election.

                    Comment

                    • Paul Pless
                      pinko commie tree hugger
                      • Oct 2003
                      • 124833

                      #25
                      Re: Liberals... well, you know.

                      Originally posted by David W Pratt
                      Don't know if this will help, but my sense is that Bernie Sanders would have beaten Donald Trump easily via an unusual mix of voters.
                      Everyone who voted for Hillary Clinton would have voted for Mr. Sanders. Many people who voted for Mr. Trump would have voted for Sanders.
                      a proportion of people who voted for neither, but wrote in, or voted for another party's candidate would have voted for him.
                      l
                      w
                      baxter
                      in
                      3
                      2
                      1
                      Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

                      Comment

                      • gypsie
                        NSW Australia
                        • Jun 2010
                        • 8191

                        #26
                        Re: Liberals... well, you know.

                        Progressive aims and objectives tend to be complex. The arguments have too many moving parts and appear trixy.

                        By contrast conservative arguments are simple and appeal to inherited wisdoms that never need explaining. 'It's not your fault it's everyone else's', MAGA.
                        It's all fun and games until Darth Vader comes.

                        Comment

                        • Art Haberland
                          Fluent in Typo
                          • May 2015
                          • 10190

                          #27
                          Re: Liberals... well, you know.

                          Originally posted by Keith Wilson
                          Indeed. It's a process that started with 'energize the base' about 1980.

                          I never thought I'd appreciate George W. Bush's relative sanity.
                          Am I allowed to say that I miss George H. Bush?

                          The issue with being Liberal, it's a big tent. It covers everyone from outright communists to just shy of being a Republican. In fact, with the GOP's recent sprint for the far right horizon, it does encompass quite a few ex-Republicans.
                          On the Republican side it's easy. They are either all Fascists or about to be ex-Republicans.
                          "If you think you are too small to make a difference, try sleeping with a mosquito"

                          -Dalai Lama

                          Comment

                          • sandtown
                            Senior Member
                            • Jan 2013
                            • 3149

                            #28
                            Re: Liberals... well, you know.

                            An Op-ed that I am working on right around now . . . thesis

                            conservatives no longer believe that libs have a right to exist.

                            To many of them, we are barbarians outside of the polis, and thus fair game.

                            Comment

                            • WI-Tom
                              Seaside Expat
                              • Jan 2009
                              • 15902

                              #29
                              Re: Liberals... well, you know.

                              Originally posted by Paul Pless
                              l
                              w
                              baxter
                              in
                              3
                              2
                              1
                              He appears to be asleep at the switch.

                              Tom
                              Ponoszenie konsekwencji!

                              www.tompamperin.com

                              Comment

                              • WI-Tom
                                Seaside Expat
                                • Jan 2009
                                • 15902

                                #30
                                Re: Liberals... well, you know.

                                Originally posted by rbgarr
                                I'm not sure that 'coming together' to 'win' either in the public mind or in politics is the end-all and be-all of a good society. Yet it seems to have become so.
                                Well said.

                                Tom
                                Ponoszenie konsekwencji!

                                www.tompamperin.com

                                Comment

                                Working...