MotorTrend Checks in on EVs

[sonofswen]

Yes, do Not buy an Electric car..and make sure it is NOT a Tesla.They are dangerous.

( Not any lines for the Superchargers now, would like to keep it that way) Model 3, 15,321 miles so far. Love it.

[Canoeyawl]

Uuuuuuug

https://www.tesla-fire.com/


EVs catch fire far less often than gas-powered cars

The bottom line in that link, italics mine:

There is not a lot of data about the frequency of electric vehicle fires in general, let along Tesla car fires. That said, according to an

IIHS noncrash fire report

, the relative claim frequencies (i.e. how often an insurance claim is made relative to insured vehicle years) for Model S and X fires that were not the result of a collision or vandalism are the highest of their categories (including ICE cars).

[Kevin T]

Some time ago, I drove our 2000 Honda Insight hybrid (60 mpg) from Laramie, WY to Corvallis, OR (about 1200 miles). Stopped in Boise for gas. Filled up in Corvallis. Stopped in Boise going back. Made it to Laramie with gas in the tank.

In the near term, a hybrid is not a bad bet.

Agree 100%!

I have a Prius V (45 to 40 Mpg) as I need the largest of the Prius' for trips to the lumberyard and such, I've managed 16 eight foot 2x4s all in with the hatch closed along with 8 sixty pound bags of cement. I've also done eight 10 foot 4x4s all in with the hatch closed.

Most of my errands are within a 15 to 30 mile loop maybe twice, sometimes three times a week. Other mileage demands are perhaps 4 road trips a year at 1,000 miles per trip. For me a perfect vehicle would be a plug in hybrid that is capable of 40 miles of mixed driving purely on a charge and then 40 to 45 mpg thereafter.

My fuel consumption in that scenario would be under 100 gallons a year.

[Jim Bow]

That perfect road trip somehow failed to mention Pepperidge Farm Mint Milano cookies

[Garret]

That perfect road trip somehow failed to mention Pepperidge Farm Mint Milano cookies

That's 'cause the orange are even better!

[LeeG]

Agree 100%!

I have a Prius V (45 to 40 Mpg) as I need the largest of the Prius' for trips to the lumberyard and such, I've managed 16 eight foot 2x4s all in with the hatch closed along with 8 sixty pound bags of cement. I've also done eight 10 foot 4x4s all in with the hatch closed.

Most of my errands are within a 15 to 30 mile loop maybe twice, sometimes three times a week. Other mileage demands are perhaps 4 road trips a year at 1,000 miles per trip. For me a perfect vehicle would be a plug in hybrid that is capable of 40 miles of mixed driving purely on a charge and then 40 to 45 mpg thereafter.

My fuel consumption in that scenario would be under 100 gallons a year.

The elimination of the PriusV with the Rav4 supposedly covering its spot is a clue gas is still too cheap.

[robm]

And the RAV4 can't carry stuff like the Prius V. It may have as much or more "rated" cargo volume, but it is floor area rather than cargo height that makes the difference. I would be surprised if the RAV4 could handle the lumber mentioned above. It would probably be too heavy for the roof racks, too, and it is a long way up.

[Sailor]

You probably already know this Joe but ICE cars combust externally almost exactly 10 times more often than EVs do. Yes, putting the fire out is harder but there's a 10th the number of fires.

Tesla's strength isn't really its charging network. That's the strength of its EV business. Its strength is batteries. They essentially own most of the global battery production. They take massive (like 50-80%) of the production from CATL, LG, Panasonic etc. The largest 5 battery manufacturers in the world all sell the majority of their production to Tesla. Add to that the fact that with it's battery factory plans Tesla, in the next year or three will be a largest battery manufacturer in the world. And they'll still buy any cells others are willing to sell them.

Anyone who wants to discuss and debate Tesla as a company and hasn't seen Tony Seba's videos, hasn't watched Munroe and Associates Youtube channel, doesn't know where to find the "Master Plan" or the "Master Plan Part Deux", isn't coming to the debate prepared.

Joe, I'm not going to take your bet because I don't think it will take until 2028 for EVs to overtake PHEV or any others. Price parity is here, much lower operating costs. And anyone who complains about range anxiety doesn't know how most people use their cars. understand how this stuff works. Legacy auto reached peak production in about 2017 and has been falling off a cliff since then. Honda sold almost 40% fewer cars in 2022 than in 2021. The only legacy auto maker to increase was Genesis, by a few % points. Tesla produced about 88% more vehicles in 22 than in 21. They are really the only auto company that's growing. Tesla is a juggernaut when it comes to potential. FSD is essentially artificial intelligence and once general AI is solved, they'll apply it to the bot and once that happens look out. Your 5k purchase will be worth a fortune. The way I see it, there isn't a single legacy OEM that won't be either bankrupt, merged or somehow changed up significantly, or bailed out by their government by 2030. Legacy auto is debt ridden. Toyota and VW both have in the neighbourhood of 200B in debt. Tesla has a few dozen million in debt. It costs billions to create an EV line as Tesla has shown us. Legacy doesn't seem to know how to make EVs and is in a race between their funding and time. If they can't ramp up a product before ICE dies (before the end of this decade remember) then they'll die off.

As for other profit, the energy business is starting to grow. Mega packs, Semi.... the TAM Tesla is staring down for their various projects is probably larger than today's global GDP. Sounds crazy impossible but I wouldn't bet against it.

Tesla's fundamentals are mind-blowing. Their financials are the envy of pretty much any company. When Musk said he expects Tesla to be bigger than Saudi Armco and Apple combined he wasn't kidding. Tesla will dwarf every other company by the time I'm ready to kick the bucket (I'm 45 now). Tesla alone might be bigger than today's entire global economy by that time.

[Katherine]

Munroe and Associates? Sandy does get a bit high strung sometimes.

[Garret]

The elimination of the PriusV with the Rav4 supposedly covering its spot is a clue gas is still too cheap.

It's also another wagon biting the dust & being replaced by an SUV. I have friends with a V, and it's a year or 2 from needing replacement. When they talked to a salesman @ Toyota he said that while demand for the V had been pretty good in some places, overall it had not sold as well as hoped. Of course adding AWD to the V would've helped, but they want more Rav4 sales.

Unfortunately it seems folks in the US are happy to drive an SUV instead of a wagon.

[Paul Pless]

the toyota sienna hybrid minivan gets the same mileage as the previous prius v and is larger and offers more 'flat floor' cargo space.

[Garret]

But, but, but... It's a minivan!

[Paul Pless]

[Garret]

Cute video.

Years ago I lived with a woman who had two kids - 7 & 10. We had a minivan & I gotta say that it was an amazing rig for hauling kids & friends & gear. They just make sense. I never understood the "Real men don't drive minivans" thing, but I guess I'm just comfortable with my masculinity or lack thereof

That being said, I've also owned a bunch of Volvo wagons (real Volvos - not Fords) & they were really handy rigs. Here in VT they were known as "hippie pickups" as that's how they were used - wasn't unusual to see them covered in bales of hay or filled with lumber and tools. While I currently drive an A4 sedan (hand-me-down), I'd rather have an A4 Avant. Oh well.

[Dan McCosh]

You probably already know this Joe but ICE cars combust externally almost exactly 10 times more often than EVs do. Yes, putting the fire out is harder but there's a 10th the number of fires.

Tesla's strength isn't really its charging network. That's the strength of its EV business. Its strength is batteries. They essentially own most of the global battery production. They take massive (like 50-80%) of the production from CATL, LG, Panasonic etc. The largest 5 battery manufacturers in the world all sell the majority of their production to Tesla. Add to that the fact that with it's battery factory plans Tesla, in the next year or three will be a largest battery manufacturer in the world. And they'll still buy any cells others are willing to sell them.

Anyone who wants to discuss and debate Tesla as a company and hasn't seen Tony Seba's videos, hasn't watched Munroe and Associates Youtube channel, doesn't know where to find the "Master Plan" or the "Master Plan Part Deux", isn't coming to the debate prepared.

Joe, I'm not going to take your bet because I don't think it will take until 2028 for EVs to overtake PHEV or any others. Price parity is here, much lower operating costs. And anyone who complains about range anxiety doesn't know how most people use their cars. understand how this stuff works. Legacy auto reached peak production in about 2017 and has been falling off a cliff since then. Honda sold almost 40% fewer cars in 2022 than in 2021. The only legacy auto maker to increase was Genesis, by a few % points. Tesla produced about 88% more vehicles in 22 than in 21. They are really the only auto company that's growing. Tesla is a juggernaut when it comes to potential. FSD is essentially artificial intelligence and once general AI is solved, they'll apply it to the bot and once that happens look out. Your 5k purchase will be worth a fortune. The way I see it, there isn't a single legacy OEM that won't be either bankrupt, merged or somehow changed up significantly, or bailed out by their government by 2030. Legacy auto is debt ridden. Toyota and VW both have in the neighbourhood of 200B in debt. Tesla has a few dozen million in debt. It costs billions to create an EV line as Tesla has shown us. Legacy doesn't seem to know how to make EVs and is in a race between their funding and time. If they can't ramp up a product before ICE dies (before the end of this decade remember) then they'll die off.

As for other profit, the energy business is starting to grow. Mega packs, Semi.... the TAM Tesla is staring down for their various projects is probably larger than today's global GDP. Sounds crazy impossible but I wouldn't bet against it.

Tesla's fundamentals are mind-blowing. Their financials are the envy of pretty much any company. When Musk said he expects Tesla to be bigger than Saudi Armco and Apple combined he wasn't kidding. Tesla will dwarf every other company by the time I'm ready to kick the bucket (I'm 45 now). Tesla alone might be bigger than today's entire global economy by that time.

Might note that there are over 200 million IC cars on the road in the US, compared to less than one million Teslas. One would expect more IC engine fires. Also, Tesla is way down on the list of EV battery producers, and doesn't even make enough batteries to supply its own cars.

[Too Little Time]

And anyone who complains about range anxiety doesn't know how most people use their cars. understand how this stuff works.

I suspect you don't know how most people use their cars. And you are unware of their concerns.

A good number of people who drive on vacation have time constraints. 30 minutes extra for charging or driving at lower speeds to get sufficient range may make a big difference.

My wife's car has a 400-500 mile range. From time to time I have had concerns about sufficient range to get to the next gas station. And gas stations are more frequent and more visible than EV charging stations.

I was looking at a 300 mile section of road that my wife and I drove on a few years ago. There are 2 charging stations both pretty much half way. 125KW for the Supercharger station. For most people that might cause some range anxiety.

[sonofswen]

Might note that there are over 200 million IC cars on the road in the US, compared to less than one million Teslas. One would expect more IC engine fires. Also, Tesla is way down on the list of EV battery producers, and doesn't even make enough batteries to supply its own cars.

Tesla confirms 4680 battery cell production is now enough for 1,000 cars a week https://electrek.co/2022/12/25/tesla...000-cars-week/

Tesla Reportedly Shifts Focus To Texas And Away From Berlin


Redwood Materials, the battery recycling and components maker created and run by Tesla co-founder JB Straubel, is accelerating its push to build a U.S. supply base for critical components for electric vehicle batteries with plans for a massive $3.5 billion plant in South Carolina.Dec 14, 2022




Musk's plan for Tesla-built batteries has an acceleration ...

https://www.reuters.com › business › autos-transportation


but keep beating the negative drum Dan...if it makes you happy.

[Figment]

I suspect you don't know how most people use their cars. And you are unware of their concerns.

A good number of people who drive on vacation have time constraints. 30 minutes extra for charging or driving at lower speeds to get sufficient range may make a big difference.

My wife's car has a 400-500 mile range. From time to time I have had concerns about sufficient range to get to the next gas station. And gas stations are more frequent and more visible than EV charging stations.

I was looking at a 300 mile section of road that my wife and I drove on a few years ago. There are 2 charging stations both pretty much half way. 125KW for the Supercharger station. For most people that might cause some range anxiety.

I had a similar conversation last week with a guy who travels to Atlanta for work 4-5 times a year. He has a Tesla 3 and a Highlander. The auto-drive tech of the tesla would certainly make the 14-hour drive a lot nicer, but he takes the highlander because it's only two quick refueling stops versus the unpredictable waiting time at a charging station.

(why doesn't he fly? I dunno we didn't get into that)

[David G]

Tesla 'Roadside Assistance' van.

Izzat a hybrid minivan??? <G>

[Ted Hoppe]

Still the best bang for buck EV. Loving it! More fun to drive than a Tesla for sure without the stigma or label.

9464D5FA-6CEC-43A2-8073-43620492D684.jpg

[Too Little Time]

(why doesn't he fly? I dunno we didn't get into that)

I prefer to drive. In the past it was cheaper. And more convenient. And if you have a vehicle, why not?

[Figment]

There is a school of thought, to which I mostly subscribe, which states that every drive of more than an hour represents a failure of public transportation policy.

The fact that solo-driving is cheaper and/or more convenient than mass transit to a major urban hub is a really damning reflection on our entire approach to transportation.

(Likewise, every flight of less than two hours... assuming no large bodies of water are in the way)

[Dan McCosh]

Tesla confirms 4680 battery cell production is now enough for 1,000 cars a week https://electrek.co/2022/12/25/tesla...000-cars-week/

Tesla Reportedly Shifts Focus To Texas And Away From Berlin


Redwood Materials, the battery recycling and components maker created and run by Tesla co-founder JB Straubel, is accelerating its push to build a U.S. supply base for critical components for electric vehicle batteries with plans for a massive $3.5 billion plant in South Carolina.Dec 14, 2022




Musk's plan for Tesla-built batteries has an acceleration ...

https://www.reuters.com › business › autos-transportation


but keep beating the negative drum Dan...if it makes you happy.

That's interesting--sounds as if Tesla is making a lot fewer batteries than I had thought.

[LeeG]

It's also another wagon biting the dust & being replaced by an SUV. I have friends with a V, and it's a year or 2 from needing replacement. When they talked to a salesman @ Toyota he said that while demand for the V had been pretty good in some places, overall it had not sold as well as hoped. Of course adding AWD to the V would've helped, but they want more Rav4 sales.

Unfortunately it seems folks in the US are happy to drive an SUV instead of a wagon.

Gotta be able see above the truck bumpers. It’s weird how a succession of policies and cultural memes along with improvements in efficiency made small station wagons on big wheels more attractive than more efficient sedan/station wagon configurations. Who wants a low to the ground station wagon that could get 35 mpg on a regular 2 liter engine when you can get 35 mpg csuv with a hybrid!

[Paul Pless]

a detached connecticutter weighs in on rural living in flyover country

There is a school of thought, to which I mostly subscribe, which states that every drive of more than an hour represents a failure of public transportation policy.

The fact that solo-driving is cheaper and/or more convenient than mass transit to a major urban hub is a really damning reflection on our entire approach to transportation.

(Likewise, every flight of less than two hours... assuming no large bodies of water are in the way)

[Paul Pless]

connecticotian?

[Paul Pless]

connecticutensian??

[Garret]

Gotta be able see above the truck bumpers. It’s weird how a succession of policies and cultural memes along with improvements in efficiency made small station wagons on big wheels more attractive than more efficient sedan/station wagon configurations. Who wants a low to the ground station wagon that could get 35 mpg on a regular 2 liter engine when you can get 35 mpg csuv with a hybrid!

'cause you could get 45MPG on the small wagon, it's generally better handling, and easier to park?

[Garret]

connecticutensian??

Nutmegger would the the correct term.

[Figment]

I'm the Dude. So that's what you call me. You know? That or His Dudeness, or Duder or, you know, El Duderino, if you're not into the whole brevity thing.

[Figment]

a detached connecticutter weighs in on rural living in flyover country

In context of HVN-ATL? Nothing rural or flyover about that route.

[Nicholas Carey]

There is a school of thought, to which I mostly subscribe, which states that every drive of more than an hour represents a failure of public transportation policy.

The fact that solo-driving is cheaper and/or more convenient than mass transit to a major urban hub is a really damning reflection on our entire approach to transportation.

(Likewise, every flight of less than two hours... assuming no large bodies of water are in the way)

There's some truth there. Once upon a time, there were inter-city bus networks, inter-urban light right and commuter trains, passenger trains, . . .

All that's pretty much gone now. The 'Hound network, is, if not dead, comatose. Inter-urban and commuter rail is mostly non-existent unless you live in the New York City-Philadelphia megalopolis or another major city (Chicago?) Passenger rail? Functionally useless for probably 90% of the population.

That leaves us with passenger cars and air travel.

[Priscilla]

Random kerbside conversation yesterday, “Hi my grandson wants to know if you are a millionaire as you are driving a Tesla.”
Replied “Tell him that this is the new proletariat car as I can’t afford the cost of petrol.”

[LeeG]

'cause you could get 45MPG on the small wagon, it's generally better handling, and easier to park?

My daughters first car was a ‘97 Honda Accord wagon. That little car got a lot of use before it died. She sent me a picture with the back full of sheep.

[Garret]

My daughters first car was a ‘97 Honda Accord wagon. That little car got a lot of use before it died. She sent me a picture with the back full of sheep.

I had an X3 BMW for a while (what junk) - but 3 days after I bought it, I drove 250 miles to pick up a 3 cyl. Kubota tractor engine. I apologized to the car, but added "Welcome to your new life"