Page 1 of 6 12 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 35 of 204

Thread: MotorTrend Checks in on EVs

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Seattle, WA USA
    Posts
    17,782

    Default MotorTrend Checks in on EVs

    A friend of mine just sent this to me. Tales from the trenches on why you might not want an EV when it's really cold. Or on long road trips.

    https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/r...ric-test-cars/

    Road Trips in Our Long-Term EVs Have Been … Interesting
    Broken chargers, full charging stations, single-digit temperatures, and optimistic range estimates have tested our patience.

    MotorTrend Staff
    Jan 27, 2023

    While winter has seen many travelers stranded at airport check-in counters this year, MotorTrend editors have been braving the open road in our expanding fleet of long-term electric cars, trucks, and SUVs. During road-trips, MT's Slack channels often become a de facto logbook of our exploits, capturing the headaches and small victories of long-distance EV driving in real time. Here's a lightly edited look at how our drivers have fared in the 2022 Ford F-150 Lightning, the 2022 Rivian R1T, the 2022 Volkswagen ID4, the 2022 Lucid Air Grand Touring Performance, and the 2023 Hyundai Ioniq 5 when holiday travel peaked, the weather and temperatures turned nasty, or they simply headed to far-flung destinations.

    2022 Volkswagen ID4 Pro | Head Of Editorial Ed Loh

    Road-tripped from Los Angeles to Sacramento in the long-term ID4 yesterday. I charged to 100 percent at home and pushed to Harris Ranch [a popular charging spot along the busy I-5 corridor—Ed.], coming in hot with full bladders, 10 percent state of charge, and 24 miles of range. The latter was a bad idea. It basically left me with few options other than the chargers at Harris Ranch, and the Electrify America Level 3 DC fast chargers there were all full. Very busy travel day. I crossed the freeway to check out some ChargePoints, and what luck: The bank of three DC fasts were totally unattended—because they were busted. Next to those was a Level 2 6.5-kW ChargePoint charger that we jumped onto while evaluating options. If I stayed on the Level 2, it would have been 9 hours to get the charge we needed to make it to our destination.

    So, I drove back to the Electrify America stations to wait on a charger, and thankfully one freed up immediately. Charged for 45 minutes, snacked, and left. While sitting in the ID4, I saw about six EVs come creeping, waiting to charge. Average wait time was 7 to 10 min (thank goodness for charger-squatting penalties). Saw two Rivian R1S's, two Hyundai Ioniq 5s, one Chevrolet Bolt, and one Kia EV6.

    The banks of Tesla Superchargers across the way were about 30 percent occupied and were very enticing. Tesla is still the long-haul charging user-experience king, and it's not close.

    Generally, I've had good experience with Electrify America chargers, but I've only done two longish EV road trips this year—to Truck of the Year and this one. I get that there are issues, but EA has outperformed ChargePoint and EVgo for me. And I think Walmart's adoption makes a lot of sense. I was so relieved to pull into the various Walmarts to charge and see open chargers and a place to grab a snack.

    2023 Hyundai Ioniq 5 Limited | Associate Editor Alex Leanse

    Taking Highway 101 between Los Angeles and San Francisco instead of I-5 seems like the move for electric vehicle road-trippers. It's less direct but comparatively scenic, and crucially offers more charging options—in nicer places, to boot. Of course, it's not like charging stops in our new Hyundai Ioniq 5 let me venture far beyond the closest convenience store. My longest session took slightly over 30 minutes, during which time a 350-kW plug brought the battery from five to 92 percent. The Ioniq 5's 800-volt fast charging potential is a huge boon on a long drive, not to mention the crossover's comfort, quietness, and adept driver assist features.

    Yet our 2023 SUV of the Year came nowhere close to delivering its claimed 266 miles of range. The 101 isn't flat, but the Ioniq 5's battery percentage would fall perilously into the single digits after about 200 miles traveled at the most; one charge started at 90 percent and drained to 2 percent in just under 150 miles. All of this was with cruise control set at 70 mph in the Eco drive mode and minimal climate control for only myself aboard. Next time I hit the highway in the Ioniq 5 I'll explore how different regenerative brake settings might stretch out a charge. Maybe that'll really allow it to stretch its legs.

    2022 Lucid Air Grand Touring Performance | Technical Director Frank Markus

    While Loh and Leanse didn't leave the confines of California in the ID4 or Ioniq 5, Markus had a more difficult go on his journey from Detroit to Memphis. Here are his dispatches from the road.—Ed.

    Update 1: Hot tips for anyone road-tripping the Lucid: Bring a book, pack a lunch. The two EVgo locations I charged at were both A) a long way off the highway and B) nowhere near a bathroom or coffee shop. I relied solely on the Lucid nav to guide me, and there just must not be many 350-kW stations along the I-75/I-65 corridor.

    When the second(brand-new) charger failed to deliver 350 kW as promised on the tin, peaking instead at 159 and quickly dropping with nary an EV in sight for miles around, I thought, "No problem, I'll bust out the Mi-Fi and edit a story." Nope! Just get going, and all sorts of error messages come up on the crashing laptop resting just 18 inches above a gigantic electromagnetic storm. More research will be forthcoming to find out what exactly happened to the laptop. Meanwhile, I wonder what the precious jewels positioned between said computer and the recharging battery have to say about all the radiation …

    Update 2: The Memphis Winterpocalypse cometh: 5 degrees, wind, snow, glare ice, and idiots aplenty in hiked-up 4x4s spinning out. Arrived in town with 188 miles of range, made two 22-mile round trips to my parents' house, range dropped to 39 miles upon arrival the third day (with just 55 miles driven) and I thus entered turtle mode. Had to drive 9 miles heater off and feet freezing. Hooked up to 350-kW charger, nobody else around, and the station recognizes the car instantly and starts charging. At 7 kW. One hour and 45 minutes to full charge was the estimate while a "Charging limited by cold battery" message appeared. Apparently the Air's battery was not warmed by an hour of driving, during 40 minutes of which I had the cabin heat on at 65 degrees. Charge rate eventually maxed at 100 kW.

    Also, running the heat torpedoes the range in town. I have busted out the 110-volt Level 1 charger and am using it to merely maintain charge in the 16-degree weather. When plugged in, the Air just shows 362 miles of range (far from its 446-mile rating) and 1 day, 16 hours to a full charge the whole time; 1 kW of charging just keeps the battery warmish and keeps it from losing range. It's an adventure!

    Update 3: Widespread power outages across Memphis! I feel like if I spend another week here with this car I may start writing flaming letters to our own magazine about "these damned coal cars!"

    Update 4: Finally made it home to Detroit. Total door-to-door time was 13 hours on the nose (2 hours more than the trip would take in a gas vehicle), including an extended charging session while the Lucid people talked me through a needed software reset after all the screens went dark in the Air, a 15-minute stop at a Kentucky booze store, and an extended second charging session due to the time it took to get a carry-out dinner. That extended last stop turned out to be a lucky thing, because it gave me enough extra cushion to do what I always do when I cross the Michigan border—drive 85 or 90 mph the remaining 80 miles or so to speed up the arrival time, which really burns down the battery. I rolled in with 37 miles (8 percent) left when the original projection was 130 or so. That EVgo DC fast charger in Cincinnati was the only one on the trip to approach the full 350 kW. Carefree long-distance EV road-tripping in America's heartland isn't a thing yet, in my experience.

    It's concerning that so few of these "350-kW" stations maxed out at like 160 kW. Maybe it was the weather, but it was only really cold for a few days. I'd also be bummed if I was following the nav system's recommendations and then felt like I couldn't drive how I wanted without running out of juice. I don't think I'd attempt that 700-ish-mile trip in a day by myself again in an EV, while I don't think twice in an ICE vehicle.

    2022 Rivian R1T Launch Edition | Features Editor Scott Evans

    Cold-weather range loss has been a real issue for our long-term Rivian R1T, very nearly stranding us on an early spring camping trip in the mountains. With overnight temperatures dropping into the low 30s, the truck was losing more than 30 miles of range per day just sitting there. My wife and I barely had enough at the end to get to the nearest charger 17 miles away. Since then, though, Rivian has updated the R1T's software over the air with Camp mode, a new feature that among other things lets you completely power down the truck (except the keyless entry system) to reduce range loss.

    On my holiday trip this past December, we were once again faced with overnight temperatures in the low 30s and daily highs in the 50s, very much like that camping trip that almost went wrong. This time, I engaged Camp mode and only lost 4 miles of range each night. On the camping trip, we lost 121 miles of range over four nights due to phantom drain. This time, we lost only 16 miles of range over four nights. Although our other EVs aren't experiencing phantom drain, the update is a massive improvement for Rivian, and all it took was fresh software sent to our truck for free over the cellular data network.

    [continued below]
    You would not enjoy Nietzsche, sir. He is fundamentally unsound. — P.G. Wodehouse (Carry On, Jeeves)

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Seattle, WA USA
    Posts
    17,782

    Default Re: MotorTrend Checks in on EVs

    [continued from above]

    2022 Ford F-150 Lightning Lariat Extended Range | Features Editor Christian Seabaugh


    Unlike my fellow EV chaperones, I was fortunate enough to stay local with MT's 2022 Ford F-150 Lightning. I imagine for most this would be an ideal use case for an EV, but for me it was a hassle. For a multitude of reasons (chiefly cost) I haven't been able to install an at-home Level 2 charger for our Lightning, and so I've been relying on Los Angeles' extensive public charging network. Over the past couple months, this hasn't been a major issue. I'll plug into a Level 2 or Level 3 public charger when out and about for a top-up; otherwise, I hit up a local 350-kW Level 3 fast charger every week and a half or so for a 30- to 60-minute jolt of juice.


    This all worked fine until I found myself spending the past two weeks running errands and shuttling family around the Southland. Without a regular routine and with L.A. temperatures fluctuating wildly from the high 30s to low 80s, our Lightning's predicted range dropped drastically to about 260 miles per charge (down 60 miles or about 19 percent from the truck's 320-mile EPA rating), while my time spent worrying about fitting charging in around family time grew exponentially.


    The issue, I suspect, is my current lack of a home charger. With one, I'd not only be able to start each day with a full charge, but I'd also be able to heat or cool the cabin via the FordPass phone app before setting off, ensuring I wasn't "wasting" range warming the cab. My charging habits support this. I wound up plugging in about a dozen times, covering 655 miles over a week and a half or so. I typically plugged in when the battery hit about 100 miles of range remaining (and with a 42 percent charge), and unplugged at 148 miles, with the battery reading about 62 percent. Considering I averaged 2.45 miles per kWh over the break—which should equate to about 320 miles of range—I'm hoping to see the Lightning's range estimates get smarter as I work to address my at-home charging needs.
    You would not enjoy Nietzsche, sir. He is fundamentally unsound. — P.G. Wodehouse (Carry On, Jeeves)

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Kitty Hawk, NC
    Posts
    12,635

    Default Re: MotorTrend Checks in on EVs

    It is discouraging when reviewers regard driving as an adventure. I prefer thinking the destination is more important than the journey.

    It reminds me of looking for cheap gas 30-40 years ago. I did not enjoy that.
    Life is complex.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Central Coast, Ca
    Posts
    36,472

    Default Re: MotorTrend Checks in on EVs

    These all are essentially the same reasons that battery powered cars lost out to gasoline 100+ years ago. Perhaps the software makes the user more aware of the ultimate shut-down of the vehicle, and they perhaps can now find a warm place to hang their hat for an hour or two
    Which is nice, I guess...
    Spending an extra hour or more at what will soon enough be a "truck stop/strip mall" is not my idea of traveling comfortably or safely.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    44,140

    Default Re: MotorTrend Checks in on EVs

    Tesla Supercharging network is practically a flawless experience. Maybe one day Elon will open up to other EV's
    This post is temporary and my disappear at the discretion of the managment

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Portland, Oregon
    Posts
    85,606

    Default Re: MotorTrend Checks in on EVs

    Thus illustrating, from the perspective of some car nuts, the points I've been making.
    David G
    Harbor Woodworks
    https://www.facebook.com/HarborWoodworks/

    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    beer city usa
    Posts
    120,936

    Default Re: MotorTrend Checks in on EVs

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe (SoCal) View Post
    Tesla Supercharging network is practically a flawless experience.
    you should prove this to us by making a trip in your tesla to say. . . . . . .edmonton, alberta via the border crossing in coutts in mid february

    we'll be expecting lots of pics
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    44,140

    Default Re: MotorTrend Checks in on EVs

    This looks like a fun time (NOT)

    This post is temporary and my disappear at the discretion of the managment

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    44,140

    Default Re: MotorTrend Checks in on EVs

    This post is temporary and my disappear at the discretion of the managment

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Seattle, WA USA
    Posts
    17,782

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe (SoCal) View Post
    Tesla Supercharging network is practically a flawless experience. Maybe one day Elon will open up to other EV's

    The article does make the comment that the Tesla charging network is the best.
    You would not enjoy Nietzsche, sir. He is fundamentally unsound. — P.G. Wodehouse (Carry On, Jeeves)

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Seattle, WA USA
    Posts
    17,782

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Too Little Time View Post
    It is discouraging when reviewers regard driving as an adventure. I prefer thinking the destination is more important than the journey.

    It reminds me of looking for cheap gas 30-40 years ago. I did not enjoy that.

    Pity.

    The journey is at least half the trip (if you're doing it right.

    Read Blue Highways, by William Least Heat-Moon.




    BLUE HIGHWAYS: A JOURNEY INTO AMERICA. By William Least Heat Moon. Illustrated. 420 pages. An Atlan- tic Monthly Press Book: Little, Brown and Company. $17.50.

    SOME men, when they lose their jobs and their wives, take to drink and go to the dogs. When William Least Heat Moon lost his, he took to the road and went to Subtle, Neon, and Mouthcard, Ky.; to Dull, Weakly, and Only, Tenn.; to Dime Box, Tex., Scratch Ankle, Ala., and Gnawbone, Ind. He wrote a book about his travels in order to find out where he was trying to arrive at and called it ''Blue Highways,'' because on old maps the back roads were colored in blue. The book is wonderful.

    Mr. Moon, who is part American Indian, traveled in a 1975 half-ton Ford van with two worn rear tires and a knock in the water pump. He felt rather worn himself and there was a knock in his heart. He headed for a psychological frontier, a better horizon. He thought that ''just paying attention'' to the world around him might do him good. He was going to try to practice what Whitman called ''the profound lesson of reception.'' Like Whitman, he said, ''O public road, you express me better than I can express myself.''

    The job Mr. Moon had lost was teaching English, but in ''Blue Highways'' he goes on teaching, teaching us, as Proudhon put it, ''the fecundity of the unexpected.'' Nietzsche wrote that he always trusted thoughts that came while walking, and Mr. Moon amends this to traveling. People tend to say profound things to travelers in the attempt to persuade them to pause in their flight and listen.

    ''Imageering's my job,'' a man says to Mr. Moon, in a sardonic tone. ''There's no convergence between what I know and what I do.'' ''At times,'' an elderly man remarks, ''I find I miss my nimbleness.'' When Mr. Moon tries to talk about black-white relations to a man in Selma, Ala., the man says, ''You got a picture in your brain all made up like a bed.'' Camping by a stream one night on the edge of the Arizona desert, the author is startled by a man stepping out of the darkness. He, too, is a traveler, in a small way. Though he's a family man, his wife and two daughters won't travel with him. ''Their lives,'' he says,, ''go as far as they can stretch their hair dryer cords.''

    ''I could write a book about my life,'' the man continues. ''I'd call it 'Ten Thousand Mistakes.' I've made them all. I can't even remember the first 6,000.'' When he was only 6 or 7, he confides to Mr. Moon, his father gave him a long, close look that frightened him. ''Whatever he saw in me,'' he says, ''made him shudder.''

    A black hitchhiker looking for work says, ''Seems things I wait for don't come along, and the ones I want to see pass on by, stop and settle in.'' A ''dwindled man'' in a bar in Bagley, Minn., complains to Mr. Moon about baseball announcers. ''Velocity,'' he says. The announcer refers to a pitcher's velocity and a runner's ''good acceleration,'' but ''this is a baseball game, not a NASA shot.'' In California, a very old man in a large camper says he refused to put in any television computer games to entertain his greatgrandchildren. ''Those kids,'' he says, ''won't have anything unless wires come out of it. If I ran an extension cord down my pantleg and let them plug me in, then they'd believe they had a real greatgranddad.''

    Mr. Moon's descriptions are just as good as his reported conversations. Of one of the many waitresses he meets, he says ''her voice was deep and soft like water moving in a cavern.'' Another has ''a grudge of a face.'' To a waitress who asks him, ''Whata you lookin' for?'' he answers, ''Harmony.'' According to him, the quality of the food in a small-town diner can be anticipated by the number of calendars on the walls. The more calendars, the better the food.

    In almost every small town, Mr. Moon finds, there is a philosopher-historian who waits for someone to whom he can explain the soul of the place and pick the colors out. These keepers of the flame are often elderly, retired people who feel that the small town provides time and space to think in ways that the city does not. One such woman says to the author, ''A teacher should carry a theme - a refrain to sing ideas from.''

    According to the map in ''Blue Highways,'' Mr. Moon's trip took him all around the perimeter of the country, as if he wanted to try to grasp it in his arms. On finishing the book, one can be forgiven a little flush of national pride. The range of voices in this nation of ours seems to go all the way from Samuel Beckett to Robert Frost. On Mr. Moon's evidence, we are not yet condemned, as someone put it, to ''an existential landscape - without absolutes, without prototypes, devoted to change and mobility.'' Rather, we are closer to a passage in T.S. Eliot. In one of his uncharacteristic moments of optimism, he wrote: The end of all our exploring Will be to arrive where we started And know the place for the first time.
    You would not enjoy Nietzsche, sir. He is fundamentally unsound. — P.G. Wodehouse (Carry On, Jeeves)

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    44,140

    Default Re: MotorTrend Checks in on EVs

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    you should prove this to us by making a trip in your tesla to say. . . . . . .edmonton, alberta via the border crossing in coutts in mid february

    we'll be expecting lots of pics
    I'm not a crazy road trip kinda guy, that would be 30hrs and 1,800 miles of driving. I can do max of about 5 hrs of driving a day we are looking at about a 10 day round trip. Thats what planes are for
    This post is temporary and my disappear at the discretion of the managment

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Location
    Eugene, Oregon
    Posts
    2,495

    Default Re: MotorTrend Checks in on EVs

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe (SoCal) View Post
    Tesla Supercharging network is practically a flawless experience.
    One BIG reason why we have our Tesla...the SC network....nothing comes close.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Kitty Hawk, NC
    Posts
    12,635

    Default Re: MotorTrend Checks in on EVs

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicholas Carey View Post
    Pity.

    The journey is at least half the trip (if you're doing it right.
    Most of the time the goal of my trips is to spend time with my wife, kids, and grandkids. I already know where I am trying to arrive at in life. I have been there for a very long time.


    But if the journey is important to you, enjoy it.
    Life is complex.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    the hills
    Posts
    69,623

    Default Re: MotorTrend Checks in on EVs

    Maybe long distance road travel is hitting limits.


    https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/Le...s=MGFUPUS2&f=A

    https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/?g=kUQ

    We’re not quite back to per capita miles traveled in 2005 or gasoline consumption of 2019. So EV range limits coincide with a change in behavior.
    Last edited by LeeG; 01-28-2023 at 09:35 AM.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    44,140

    Default Re: MotorTrend Checks in on EVs

    Quote Originally Posted by LeeG View Post
    Maybe long distance road travel is hitting limits.


    https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/Le...s=MGFUPUS2&f=A

    https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/?g=kUQ

    We’re not quite back to per capita miles traveled in 2005 or gasoline consumption of 2019. So EV range limits coincide with a change in behavior.
    AGAIN with Tesla's ROBUST best in class Supercharging Network LONG DISTANCE EV range anxiety is non existent. Oh and Tesla's battery temperature and battery management system is also best in glass and eliminates a lot of the cold weather issues.

    These are some of the main reason I bought a Tesla over other EV's. It must also be said I love the car not crazy about the CEO.
    This post is temporary and my disappear at the discretion of the managment

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    beer city usa
    Posts
    120,936

    Default Re: MotorTrend Checks in on EVs

    i think you miss lee's point, its not about range anxiety
    its about how many people see the decline in fossil fuel stocks portending a decline in both production and consumption overall. . .

    as in production and consumption of everything - fuel, food, raw materials, stuff, medicine, services, etc etc etc

    i'm not sure i agree with the theory, i don't want to agree with the theory, but there are some compelling arguments in favor of it


    Quote Originally Posted by Joe (SoCal) View Post
    AGAIN with Tesla's ROBUST best in class Supercharging Network LONG DISTANCE EV range anxiety is non existent. Oh and Tesla's battery temperature and battery management system is also best in glass and eliminates a lot of the cold weather issues.

    These are some of the main reason I bought a Tesla over other EV's. It must also be said I love the car not crazy about the CEO.
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    the hills
    Posts
    69,623

    Default Re: MotorTrend Checks in on EVs

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe (SoCal) View Post
    AGAIN with Tesla's ROBUST best in class Supercharging Network LONG DISTANCE EV range anxiety is non existent. Oh and Tesla's battery temperature and battery management system is also best in glass and eliminates a lot of the cold weather issues.

    These are some of the main reason I bought a Tesla over other EV's. It must also be said I love the car not crazy about the CEO.
    EV’s can travel distances for a cost. I’m saying it’s possible that long distance driving and high mileage driving might be hitting limits so that this “range anxiety” issue becomes kinda moot.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    East Quogue,NY
    Posts
    26,885

    Default MotorTrend Checks in on EVs

    Quote Originally Posted by LeeG View Post
    EV’s can travel distances for a cost. I’m saying it’s possible that long distance driving and high mileage driving might be hitting limits so that this “range anxiety” issue becomes kinda moot.


    I think its moot most of the time, for many people.

    In the OP, the long range drivers are not representative of most, or even a majority of drivers. Certainly there are likely tens of thousands of drivers who routinely drive cross country.

    To my mind, and from what I have read, the bigger market are drivers like the associate editor in the article. Electric was just fine for him, if he installed a home charger, which he did not.

    Electric is never going to be for everyone. It does not have to be. Diesel isnt for everyone, nor is propane, nor is car ownership, for that matter. But, there are many thousands for whom it can work, and the more electric vehicles on the road means fewer IC vehicles. And, that is a good thing, for a host of reasons.

    Kevin


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    There are two kinds of boaters: those who have run aground, and those who lie about it.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Bainbridge Island WA
    Posts
    5,627

    Default Re: MotorTrend Checks in on EVs

    I thought this was interesting



    13 hours in the car over 5 days? Kind of takes range anxiety out of the equation for a lot of folks. But, I also won't discount it for those who have it if that is the way they actually travel. There have been times in the past 10 or so years when what I needed to do was jump in the car and cover the 1100 miles between here and San Luis Obispo CA as quickly as possible. I wouldn't want to do that in an EV. But I would also rather do that trip in more pleasurable 250-ish mile increments in which case an EV would be just fine.
    Steve

    If you would have a good boat, be a good guy when you build her - honest, careful, patient, strong.
    H.A. Calahan

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    44,140

    Default Re: MotorTrend Checks in on EVs

    Quote Originally Posted by LeeG View Post
    EV’s can travel distances for a cost. I’m saying it’s possible that long distance driving and high mileage driving might be hitting limits so that this “range anxiety” issue becomes kinda moot.
    I get you and personally as said I'm not much of a long distance road trip driver. Although on my daily drives, I never feel even the slightest bit of range anxiety. As a matter of fact to the contrary when I'm out doing my daily errands I'm more likely to take a scenic detour or the long way home and drive down the Pacific Coast Highway just because I don't have gas price anxiety.

    It's totally changed my driving habit, my EV has become an appliance that I jump in and go anytime without a care about MPG, the cost of fuel, when the next tune up / oil change or how much do I have in the tank. I just get in turn up the tunes, and if it's a little chilly hit the heated seats and steering wheel hit the accelerator and go. It's really changed my perception of how we've always had to deal with the mechanical aspect of owning a car.

    Also knowing that if I did wan't to take a long road trip that the same connivence I have on my daily drives would be the same on a longer road trip. I just don't have the time to do a long road trip now with all thats going on. The longest we drive is up to Santa Barbra, Big Bear, San Diego or LA. I mean I have put almost 19K on the odo since we bought it last year, so I think I'm ahead of the national average.
    This post is temporary and my disappear at the discretion of the managment

  22. #22
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    the hills
    Posts
    69,623

    Default Re: MotorTrend Checks in on EVs

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    i think you miss lee's point, its not about range anxiety
    its about how many people see the decline in fossil fuel stocks portending a decline in both production and consumption overall. . .

    as in production and consumption of everything - fuel, food, raw materials, stuff, medicine, services, etc etc etc

    i'm not sure i agree with the theory, i don't want to agree with the theory, but there are some compelling arguments in favor of it
    It’s a description not a theory. The hypothetical part is when and what will be the nature of the transition from energy fueled growth to decline. Predicting the future is iffy. Kinda like one’s own demise. It’ll happen eventually but hopefully not soon.
    I admit I get sucked into projecting single cause demise for modern civilization and possibly homo saps when it’ll probably be as long/short of a time period that got us here so I don’t think I’ll have the front row seat as much as millenials and their kids will have.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDBJdQnjE2o

    Here’s a video clip I watched last night. It’s long, slow and chatty between Nate Hagens and Art Berman about the changes in US oil production. The pace will probably make you want to light up and switch over to dance videos five minutes in but Berman has useful charts about the difference in crude production over the last couple decades how fracked production has contributed a lot of natural gas liquids, good for plastic bags, lighters and propane, along with expensive crude. Anyway the takeaway is that our energy extraction systems are getting more complex and our responses for maintaining business as usual equally clever. But it’s all going in one direction.

    I have to fix my ebike drivetrain again. A stick got in the way. Motorcycling a bicycle drivetrain off trail is dumb but fun.

  23. #23
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    the hills
    Posts
    69,623

    Default Re: MotorTrend Checks in on EVs

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe (SoCal) View Post
    I get you and personally as said I'm not much of a long distance road trip driver. Although on my daily drives, I never feel even the slightest bit of range anxiety. As a matter of fact to the contrary when I'm out doing my daily errands I'm more likely to take a scenic detour or the long way home and drive down the Pacific Coast Highway just because I don't have gas price anxiety.

    It's totally changed my driving habit, my EV has become an appliance that I jump in and go anytime without a care about MPG, the cost of fuel, when the next tune up / oil change or how much do I have in the tank. I just get in turn up the tunes, and if it's a little chilly hit the heated seats and steering wheel hit the accelerator and go. It's really changed my perception of how we've always had to deal with the mechanical aspect of owning a car.

    Also knowing that if I did wan't to take a long road trip that the same connivence I have on my daily drives would be the same on a longer road trip. I just don't have the time to do a long road trip now with all thats going on. The longest we drive is up to Santa Barbra, Big Bear, San Diego or LA. I mean I have put almost 19K on the odo since we bought it last year, so I think I'm ahead of the national average.
    My Tesla is my ebiked ClemSmith. Nearly silent and gobs of torque for this ridge we live on where riding a bike up 15%+ grades is really beyond my power to weight ratio.

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Seattle, WA USA
    Posts
    17,782

    Default Re: MotorTrend Checks in on EVs

    Quote Originally Posted by Breakaway View Post
    In the OP, the long range drivers are not representative of most, or even a majority of drivers. Certainly there are likely tens of thousands of drivers who routinely drive cross country.
    For much/most of North America, long drives of several hundred miles are a pretty standard use case, probably several times per year. Maybe not so much on the east coast or in the northeast, but once you get west of the Appalachians, things get spread out.

    It's 300 miles from Seattle to Spokane. I know people who do that, if not once a month, at least every couple months to visit family.

    Same in the Midwest. Driving up to Chicago from Cincinnati is 300 miles. Takes 5 hours in a car. An airplane flight takes 60 minutes, but by the time added on each end dealing with the airport and security, it works out to be a 5-hour trip. And then you've still got to get into the city. And get around.

    Batteries are chemical reactions, and say what you want, those reactions slow down when the battery gets cold. That means voltage drop and power drop. Range degrades in the cold, moreso if you want to heat the cabin — and does it gets cold in the heartland.
    You would not enjoy Nietzsche, sir. He is fundamentally unsound. — P.G. Wodehouse (Carry On, Jeeves)

  25. #25
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    the hills
    Posts
    69,623

    Default Re: MotorTrend Checks in on EVs

    Quote Originally Posted by stromborg View Post
    I thought this was interesting



    13 hours in the car over 5 days? Kind of takes range anxiety out of the equation for a lot of folks. But, I also won't discount it for those who have it if that is the way they actually travel. There have been times in the past 10 or so years when what I needed to do was jump in the car and cover the 1100 miles between here and San Luis Obispo CA as quickly as possible. I wouldn't want to do that in an EV. But I would also rather do that trip in more pleasurable 250-ish mile increments in which case an EV would be just fine.
    I wonder what the perfect road trip chart for two adults, three kids under 8 yrs old and two one yr old babies looks like? I can say it’s not 1250 miles in 3 days.

  26. #26
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Grosse Pointe, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    16,108

    Default Re: MotorTrend Checks in on EVs

    Quote Originally Posted by LeeG View Post
    I wonder what the perfect road trip chart for two adults, three kids under 8 yrs old and two one yr old babies looks like? I can say it’s not 1250 miles in 3 days.
    Wasn't that a Chevy Chase movie??

  27. #27
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Portland, Oregon
    Posts
    85,606

    Default Re: MotorTrend Checks in on EVs

    Range anxiety is a real issue for much of the country... and I don't just mean long haul driving.

    Here in Oregon, even for Tesla chargers (the most reliable and widespread), there are a total of about 2 dozen.

    That's for just shy of 100,000 square miles, and roughly 200,000 miles of main roads.

    And they are not, of course, evenly distributed. They are mainly concentrated along the N/S I-5 corridor. And secondarily along the N/S Hwy 101 corridor. Most of the state - the pickings are pretty slim.

    So if you have a home charger, and you live & mostly move along the I-5, you're good. Many of us don't.

    And for me personally... I try and avoid I-5 when at all possible. I also spend a fair amount of time not on main roads... and away from those corridors. And when I travel, I'm often towing a boat - which really takes a chunk out of your range.

    So hybrid it is, and probably will be for quite some time.
    David G
    Harbor Woodworks
    https://www.facebook.com/HarborWoodworks/

    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  28. #28
    Join Date
    Apr 1999
    Location
    West Boothbay Harbor, Maine
    Posts
    25,392

    Default Re: MotorTrend Checks in on EVs

    Charging for people who live/work in cities and have to find a different place to park on the street each day or night is going to be major issue.
    For the most part experience is making the same mistakes over and over again, only with greater confidence.

  29. #29
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Bainbridge Island WA
    Posts
    5,627

    Default Re: MotorTrend Checks in on EVs

    Quote Originally Posted by David G View Post

    And they are not, of course, evenly distributed. They are mainly concentrated along the N/S I-5 corridor. And secondarily along the N/S Hwy 101 corridor. Most of the state - the pickings are pretty slim.
    That corresponds neatly to the population distrubution

    If I were installing charging stations I wouldn't put one out in SW Oregon without a compelling reason to do so.
    Steve

    If you would have a good boat, be a good guy when you build her - honest, careful, patient, strong.
    H.A. Calahan

  30. #30
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    44,140

    Default Re: MotorTrend Checks in on EVs

    And thats why I live in SoCal where you can spin a cat and hit a Super Charger
    This post is temporary and my disappear at the discretion of the managment

  31. #31
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    the hills
    Posts
    69,623

    Default Re: MotorTrend Checks in on EVs

    Quote Originally Posted by Breakaway View Post
    I think its moot most of the time, for many people.

    In the OP, the long range drivers are not representative of most, or even a majority of drivers. Certainly there are likely tens of thousands of drivers who routinely drive cross country.

    To my mind, and from what I have read, the bigger market are drivers like the associate editor in the article. Electric was just fine for him, if he installed a home charger, which he did not.

    Electric is never going to be for everyone. It does not have to be. Diesel isnt for everyone, nor is propane, nor is car ownership, for that matter. But, there are many thousands for whom it can work, and the more electric vehicles on the road means fewer IC vehicles. And, that is a good thing, for a host of reasons.

    Kevin


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    for sure, I mean there’s a gas gauge or a battery management system that says how far you can travel at X drain. If a person can’t manage that without angst they shouldn’t get in the driver’s seat.

  32. #32
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Portland, Oregon
    Posts
    85,606

    Default Re: MotorTrend Checks in on EVs

    Quote Originally Posted by stromborg View Post
    That corresponds neatly to the population distrubution

    If I were installing charging stations I wouldn't put one out in SW Oregon without a compelling reason to do so.
    Yes... I got that. Perfectly understandable. My first point was - the correspondence with where in the state people drive... is substantially less direct. My second point is that this is particularly unworkable for someone - like me - who tows a boat a camping trailer, or other toys. EV's are just not ready to meet my needs. And the factors I point out are the main reasons, along with the price premium, that... while rising... EV sales are still only about 1/2 of what hybrid sales are. And hybrid sales are also rising --

    https://www.autoblog.com/2022/01/09/...20the%20market.
    David G
    Harbor Woodworks
    https://www.facebook.com/HarborWoodworks/

    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  33. #33
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    the hills
    Posts
    69,623

    Default Re: MotorTrend Checks in on EVs

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe (SoCal) View Post
    And thats why I live in SoCal where you can spin a cat and hit a Super Charger
    Speaking of swinging cats, it’s got a car and memes!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=feMRUH35jQo

  34. #34
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    the hills
    Posts
    69,623

    Default Re: MotorTrend Checks in on EVs

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan McCosh View Post
    Wasn't that a Chevy Chase movie??
    If only

  35. #35
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    44,140

    Default Re: MotorTrend Checks in on EVs

    Dave I know you have a hard on for hybrids, but I hate to tell you the industry is moving more and more towards plug in EV's and in the next 5 years full plug in EVs will go from 1/2 to 3/4 or more. If you ever go to the LA or NY auto show you will notice Its just the way the car industry is moving. So bye bye hybrid's
    This post is temporary and my disappear at the discretion of the managment

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •