High praise for Gordon Lightfoot.

[CWSmith]

I am sure his people/ team would have addressed the other song appropriately, perhaps without even Lightfoot knowing. Its almost a guarantee that this didn't get by them and that all is well for some reason.

Kevin

Two things: 1) I don't think that Lightfoot is a bully and going after a folky who sells not that many albums each year would look bad for him, and 2) you don't go after shallow pockets. It would cost more to take him to court than you would get.

[Breakaway]

Two things: 1) I don't think that Lightfoot is a bully and going after a folky who sells not that many albums each year would look bad for him, and 2) you don't go after shallow pockets. It would cost more to take him to court than you would get.

There is Lightfoot the man and Lightfoot the entity. The latter would be dealing with any potential business issues.

Besides, it would be the record company's decision to make. They wont let you or me use Lightfoot's music on a YouTube video we might publish for personal use. Think.

Kevin

[Bobcat]

We saw Lightfoot in concert about 9 years ago. Musically a great show, but not much interaction with the audience or comments between the songs. I got the sense that he was tired and had enough energy to play the music and nothing more.

Interesting that the Canadian Railway Trilogy was commissioned by the CBC.

[CWSmith]

There is Lightfoot the man and Lightfoot the entity. The latter would be dealing with any potential business issues.

Besides, it would be the record company's decision to make. They wont let you or me use Lightfoot's music on a YouTube video we might publish for personal use. Think.

Kevin

Oh, Kevin, if you hadn't ended with "Think." as if you have deep thoughts, I would have let this slide. What I said for Lightfoot goes for the record company. I doubt they care about a song recorded by Moore. Unless it becomes an epidemic of other thefts, they would likely ignore it. Now, if it hits the charts and is selling a significant number of recordings, then things would change. I thought.

[CWSmith]

We saw Lightfoot in concert about 9 years ago. Musically a great show, but not much interaction with the audience or comments between the songs. I got the sense that he was tired and had enough energy to play the music and nothing more.

Interesting that the Canadian Railway Trilogy was commissioned by the CBC.

The first time I saw him was around 1983 in Portland Maine. I think his slide steel guitarist was still with him. It was one of the best concerts I have ever seen (heard?). His voice was still rich and full, the band was tight, and he even told a few jokes (I still remember the joke about moosesh1t pie and it's become a standard one-liner in our house).

[Osborne Russell]

Out on runway
number nine

[Breakaway]

Oh, Kevin, if you hadn't ended with "Think." as if you have deep thoughts, I would have let this slide. What I said for Lightfoot goes for the record company. I doubt they care about a song recorded by Moore. Unless it becomes an epidemic of other thefts, they would likely ignore it. Now, if it hits the charts and is selling a significant number of recordings, then things would change. I thought.

No.
That's why I wrote the YouTube example. If you post a video of your home barbecue family reunion with music playing, the video will be taken down unless you have paid a fee to use the music. You, as an individual, with an audience of nine or 43.
The record company is not going to let another artist publish a marketed record just because. They have shareholders and a board to answer to. Think of the precedent that would set.

Kevin

[CWSmith]

No.
That's why I wrote the YouTube example. If you post a video of your home barbecue family reunion with music playing, the video will be taken down unless you have paid a fee to use the music. You, as an individual, with an audience of nine or 43.
The record company is not going to let another artist publish a marketed record just because. They have shareholders and a board to answer to. Think of the precedent that would set.

Kevin

I know for a fact this is not the case. I know of several videos made by students who took less familiar music off the internet and used it for background. No complaint was ever made. Could it be made? Probably. It wasn't and that is the point. Moore stole the music note for note and nobody cared enough to go after him, but it was still theft.

[Dan McCosh]

"My country tis of thee.." Another theft.

[Bobcat]

The first time I saw him was around 1983 in Portland Maine. I think his slide steel guitarist was still with him. It was one of the best concerts I have ever seen (heard?). His voice was still rich and full, the band was tight, and he even told a few jokes (I still remember the joke about moosesh1t pie and it's become a standard one-liner in our house).

Of course I saw him 30 years later, after some serious health issues. No wonder he was not as energetic on stage

[Toxophilite]

You got that right.

I used to call it 'The Rectum of Ella Fitzgerald"

No offense or disrespect to Ella Fitzgerald who is fantastic of course(purely a matter of the right sounds and number of syllables) and I am a HUGE Gorden Lightfoot fan. Beautiful well crafted songs and a lovely voice.

[robm]

"My country tis of thee.." Another theft.

But that tune was very, very old when stolen. And after all, you weren't using it to sing about the king at the time. Americans are not the only ones to have recycled this tune: Liechtenstein and Norway still use it, and Imperial Russia, the German Empire and Switzerland have all used it. Apparently, the tune can be traced back to plainchant, and composers in the 1650's. It was pretty much public domain by the time the American version of the song was written in 1831, and the songwriter took the tune from a German song!

It is possible Moore used Lightfoot's tune with permission. Music videos often overlook the fine print on the liner notes.

[Breakaway]

Moore stole the music note for note and nobody cared enough to go after him, but it was still theft.

How do you know that Moore, or his record label, did not pay for the rights?

I know for a fact this is not the case. I know of several videos made by students who took less familiar music off the internet and used it for background. No complaint was ever made.

As for your students, just because they have not been caught, doesn't make what they did right or legal or approved by either the music publisher or YouTube.


Here is from YT:

The first rule of copyright

Creators should only upload videos that they have made or that they're authorized to use. That means they should not upload videos they didn't make, or use content in their videos that someone else owns the copyright to, such as music tracks, snippets of copyrighted programs, or videos made by other users, without necessary authorizations.

So, you did not, " know it for a fact." You just thought it.

Kevin

[CWSmith]

Kevin, how can I hope to argue with such brilliance! You win. I am ashamed that I even tried to compete. You must be right. I hope you don't mind, but I plan to keep you on ignore and just peak from time to time to see what new brilliance you are sharing with us.

[Dan McCosh]

FWIW, Lightfoot did say the melody was based on an old Irish folk song. Dunno what "based on" is supposed to entail.

[CWSmith]

FWIW, Lightfoot did say the melody was based on an old Irish folk song. Dunno what "based on" is supposed to entail.

The Beatles (John and Paul, mostly) were inspired by traditional English songs they heard growing up. Every writer builds on what they learn from those who come before. Odd as it may seem, so did Led Zeppelin. You can hear some traditional folk tunes buried in some of their songs. Law suits have been based on no more than a dozen bars or less, but when you take it note-for-note beginning-to-end, it's not based on or inspired by, it's theft.

[Breakaway]

Kevin, how can I hope to argue with such brilliance! You win. I am ashamed that I even tried to compete. You must be right. I hope you don't mind, but I plan to keep you on ignore and just peak from time to time to see what new brilliance you are sharing with us.

In other words, you are calling a man a thief publicly, without any evidence. And, you can't admit your statement about your students video inciates that they stole content. And, for both of these, you are running away.

Bye bye

Kevin

[CWSmith]

In other words, you are calling a man a thief publicly, without any evidence. And, you can't admit your statement about your students video inciates that they stole content. And, for both of these, you are running away.

Bye bye

Kevin

The song is the evidence.

The students probably should not have done what they did, but they did. Now, you're a grown-@ss man, so man up and don't beat on kids who make mistakes. I told you that story to illustrate that your absolutism re what will happen and when it doesn't it's not... is just not worth the effort to type the words.

Kevin, your thinking is paper thin. I have learned not to expect more than that of you, but for the record I am not running away. I am just swatting at that annoying buzzing sound in my ear hoping that it will go way.

[CWSmith]

This has been a favorite for 40+ years. It rolls and lifts despite some very sad lyrics.



https://youtu.be/CsIOzYSJRi4

[Ron Williamson]

Lightfoot speaks of it
https://www.bobbysandstrust.com/gordon-lightfoot-bobby/
All good.
R

[Breakaway]

The song is the evidence.

The students probably should not have done what they did, but they did. Now, you're a grown-@ss man, so man up and don't beat on kids who make mistakes. I told you that story to illustrate that your absolutism re what will happen and when it doesn't it's not... is just not worth the effort to type the words.

Kevin, your thinking is paper thin. I have learned not to expect more than that of you, but for the record I am not running away. I am just swatting at that annoying buzzing sound in my ear hoping that it will go way.

The song is not the evidence.
I will ask again: do you KNOW that rights were not sold or otherwise legally transferred to him?


And as to the second point, the copyright law is clear and public, so give it up.

Kevin


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[Dave Hadfield]

Lightfoot. I collected a horrific glare from him once.

My band had been invited to play at Mariposa. We were slotted in to various side-stages during the weekend. He was main-stage anchor on the Saturday night. (We were certainly not.)

We had no bass-player. It seemed a good idea to get one. My son was taking bass lessons at the time, so I called up his teacher and asked him if he was interested. "Hey, sure!", was the answer. So we arranged it.

It was inconceivable to me then that a pro musician would not be familiar with 3/4 time. The 4 of us sat on the grass on an empty hillside that morning and rehearsed the set list. Celtic. All the hits of the 1790s. He had never experienced such weirdness.

But no matter, he was young and adaptable and figured it out on-the-fly, and we played our gigs happily and reasonably well.

Backstage in the green-room there was free food, but also free wine and beer. Our Bassist brought a couple of his friends in and over-partook. They got loud and silly. I was sitting quietly with the other band members trying to enjoy the occasion but at one point looked over to see who'd just come in and sat down with a tray of food. It was Gord, of course.

He never said a word but he was no slouch, and identified me as the Leader of the Loud Local Louts. He focused on me for about :30 secs and seared me with his laser eyes. Then refused to acknowledge my existence.

Sigh...

I admire Winter's Night enormously, and we all play it as often as possible.

[robm]

Actually, Lightfoot himself says he stole the tune! According to him, it is some ancient Irish dirge. As such, there is no copywrite.

[CWSmith]

Lightfoot. I collected a horrific glare from him once...

I once went to a concert of his when the opening act wrote jingles (Burger King and a bunch of similar things). The yuppies in the audience loved them and I noticed Lightfoot off to the side watching them with a look that said, "Are they kidding?" They finished, the stagehands reset the stage for Lightfoot, and half the audience got up and left. They were just there to watch the jingle writers. I couldn't believe it. Lightfoot gave his usual great performance despite it.

[RFNK]

I think Gordon Lightfoot's a terrific musician and writes beautiful songs. Early Morning Rain's a favourite but my favourite version is this one by Billy Bragg and Joe Henry

[Breakaway]

Image of the sheet music for Back Home in Derry.

Both Lightfoot and Sands are credited.
No theft involved.



Kevin


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[Dan McCosh]