looking for suggestions for a coastal cruiser

[boussole]

Hi Everyone,
I'm a new member here but I've been lurking around for a long time

I'm looking for suggestions for a coastal cruiser that I can build in my garage. The maximum dimensions of the boat would be 19ft with a beam of 6ft. Now here's the catch, I'd like this boat to:

- be capable of crossings up to 100 nautical miles,
- be capable of carrying 1 to 2 weeks of supplies,
- have accommodation to sleep 1 person on board,

Ideally, it would also be engineless and be able to navigate up tidal rivers (shallow draft, mast on tabernacle, ...) but those are "nice to have".

I don't have much experience in boat building yet, but I'm learning. Currently building an expedition wherry from CLC to get myself familiar with the process.

Do you think such a boat is possible ? Any suggestions ?

Thanks in advance!

[WI-Tom]

Yes, such a boat is possible. John Welsford's "Long Steps" design fits the bill pretty well, I think.

Long Steps.jpg

I'll be curious to hear what other folks think. Long Steps would likely be my first choice for ambitious engineless cruising.

Tom

[rgthom]

Take a look at John Welsfords Long Steps design. The brief is just what you are describing, except mast is carbon fiber and stepped into an angled slot.

[rgthom]

Tom was 8 seconds faster than me….

[WI-Tom]

Tom was 8 seconds faster than me

That might just mean I need to reduce the screen time in my life--most of which I spend here.

Tom

[rgthom]

If you are willing to stomach Facebook the Welsford group has a couple of Long Steps builds ongoing, including Johns own boat.

[WI-Tom]

If you are willing to stomach Facebook the Welsford group has a couple of Long Steps builds ongoing, including Johns own boat.

I got to "sail" John's Long Steps in his workshop in New Zealand a few years back (the hull was planked, cockpit and cabin substantially done). I really like this design. That little cuddy/cabin is tall enough for me (I'm 6'2") to sit comfortably in, and a surprisingly snug little place to get out of the weather, mostly, without setting up a boat tent. And, I'm sure, makes it easy to snap a boat tent to the cabin to cover the cockpit. John had a neat little swing-out shelf for a stove in the cuddy bulkhead as well to allow cooking a meal inside the shelter. Well thought out.

Water ballast--a bit more complicated than I'm used to, but I'm sure it's a big part of why this design is predicted to be so capable even for long passages when necessary.

Tom

[AJZimm]

The maximum dimensions of the boat would be 19ft with a beam of 6ft. Now here's the catch, I'd like this boat to:

Why the 6 ft restriction on beam? That will limit sail-carrying ability. For a boat of that length I would be happier with a width of at least 4-6 inches more.

If the restriction is due to a lack of building space in your garage workshop, you can build a boat with greater beam by building a very robust and stiff building frame/strongback and mounting it on casters so that the boat can be moved from side to side while you work on it. That's assuming the floor is solid and flat of course.

[boussole]

The long steps just became the front runner

That looks like an awesome boat! I'll look into it more.

[boussole]

My shed is 12 x 22, so I figured keeping about half of it empty for tools, wood, etc would make the work easier but I could certainly push the beam a bit larger.

[boussole]

Thanks everyone for the recommendations, I think I'm going to go with the long steps. It look like a solid boat.

Before I commit, what do you think of https://www.clcboats.com/shop/boats/...anoe-yawl.html ?

It meets pretty much all my criteria but I don't think it would be safe for long crossings.

[stromborg]

I'm looking for suggestions for a coastal cruiser that I can build in my garage. The maximum dimensions of the boat would be 19ft with a beam of 6ft. Now here's the catch, I'd like this boat to:

- be capable of crossings up to 100 nautical miles,
- be capable of carrying 1 to 2 weeks of supplies,
- have accommodation to sleep 1 person on board,

Just so I understand the design brief, what do you mean by "crossings up to 100 nautical miles"? Open water like Miami to Nassau? Or did you mean 100 miles of "coastal cruising" which in my head is staying pretty much within sight of land.

For the latter, "Longsteps" would be quite appropriate, the former....one could do it but at a relatively higher risk level.

[rgthom]

Thanks everyone for the recommendations, I think I'm going to go with the long steps. It look like a solid boat.

Before I commit, what do you think of https://www.clcboats.com/shop/boats/...anoe-yawl.html ?

It meets pretty much all my criteria but I don't think it would be safe for long crossings.

Autumn Leaves is a 1500 lb hull. I would not choose that unless aux power is some kind of motor. The Guider is more of a solo sail and oar design: https://www.clcboats.com/shop/boats/...ts/guider.html

And yes, are we saying 100 miles open exposed water? Where?

[boussole]

By 100 nautical miles crossings, I mean crossing as in Miami to Nassau (i.e. 50 miles from any shores). Those crossings would be occasional and dependant on the good conditions lining up for it.

95% of the sailing would be done in the gulf of St Lawrence (Eastern Canada).

[Priscilla]

Another foot in beam will get you this.
Plans are available as a CNC cut file which will hasten the build process and reduce both mess and stress.
https://www.vivierboats.com/en/produ...-ven-19-cabin/
3F2E5F88-1291-4F46-AFF7-85BB55CC03CE.jpg

[Andrew2]

Friend locally is building a Sharpie 6OO. At 20ft, it will fit in your shed. (his is just 20ft, so bit close..) It has, rather than a cuddy, a cabin with a double berth, potty space and galley corner.
Around 600kg and shallow draft with an offset steel plate.
It is not so attractive as JW's LS, but a faster build with the sharpie hull. He is just over a year, with the hull about done and spars too. Detail work going on, which is surprisingly time consumng..

[Jfitzger]

Several Angus Rowcruisers have completed the Race to Alaska. It's probably the minimal boat that meets your specs. It's on the shortlist for my next boat.

https://angusrowboats.com/pages/sailing-rowcruiser

rowcruiser.jpg

[Timo_N62.9_E27.7]

How about this? Sleeps two in a pinch, very comfortable if solo. 450kg lead ballast and available also with a sloop rig, gaff or bermudian. LOD 7.25m with the counter stern I added. The designer Paul Riccelli once said: "Not that I would want to but you could cross the Atlantic with her". But you definitely need aux power, mine is 86lb electric outboard fixed into the keel.
https://www.boatdesign.net/gallery/discrete-st-ryd-16-10.18407/
o5.jpg

[Woxbox]

Thanks everyone for the recommendations, I think I'm going to go with the long steps. It look like a solid boat.

Before I commit, what do you think of https://www.clcboats.com/shop/boats/...anoe-yawl.html ?

It meets pretty much all my criteria but I don't think it would be safe for long crossings.

That's my boat. It's a great coastal cruiser, but with its flat bottom and 8" draft, it's optimized for protected, shallow water. It wouldn't capsize or sink on its way to the Bahamas (a trip I've done in a much bigger boat) but it wouldn't be ideal, either.

I don't know how complex a boat you want to build, but Oughtred's Wee Seal would be comfortable off the coast.

[neil.henderson]

I'd suggest that you have a look at Francois Vivier's Jewell design - a lovely practical boat.

[UCanoe_2]

My shed is 12 x 22, so I figured keeping about half of it empty for tools, wood, etc would make the work easier but I could certainly push the beam a bit larger.

Keep in mind that the "tools, wood, etc." have a way of expanding to fit the unavailable space. Here are photos of a boat with 4'6" beam under construction in a nominally 14'8" wide work space. The strongback is 44" wide. The workbench with the vise and plastic jug is 28" wide. Clamps have an annoying habit of intruding into the walking aisles.

resized steaming stbd strake_01.jpg resized port and more clamps.jpg

Chapelle gives as a rule of thumb: 1-1/2 x overall length, 4x beam, and 1-1/2 x overall height.

[Jack Loudon]

I agree with Stromborg, and wouldn't want to venture too far offshore in Longsteps, either for the Miami-Nassau crossing or for the Gulf of St. Lawrence. You are probably both more experienced and braver than I, but for peace of mind in those waters I would want a ballasted boat with self-bailing cockpit.

Why not keep your CLC wherry for near-shore work, and build a different and more suitable boat for bigger waters? John Welsford has drawn a few in your size range.

[WI-Tom]

I'd probably try a Key Largo-Bimini-Bahamas crossing in Long Steps and feel reasonably safe with a good forecast. I'd certainly be nervous about such a long hop, but that's only good sense. It's nothing to be done lightly.

However, a cabin boat changes the game, I think. It's not a better game, or a worse one, to cross in a semi-open engineless boat. But it's a different one.

Choices, choices.

Long Steps is heavily ballasted, designed for righting by a solo sailor, rows decently, and has decent shelter and a mizzen for heaving to in really tough conditions.

How do people feel the complexity/difficulty of a Long Steps build would compare to the other options mentioned here? Maybe that's another good question to consider.

Tom

[John hartmann]

The little Stir Ven in post #15 and the Jewell are ballasted; the Stir Ven uses some water ballast, but also a cast, NACA foiled iron CB which would add expense to the build. I built a Jewell in a 2 bay garage, oriented on the diagonal and with the strongback on casters. It was a big project, taking 2&1/2 years. Probably not an ideal project for a first build for most folks. The Jewell has a self draining cockpit; not sure what the arrangements are for S-V 19. Both the Vivier boats have large cockpits, I would worry about free surface effects if either were full of water. The Jewell is designed for rowing galley style, with two oarsfolk seated side by each on the bridgedeck. I have sculled mine short distances in flat calm without difficulty.
The Jewell is beautifully balanced under sail, and I love the yawl’s ability to heave to if I need to tend to something other than the helm for a bit, which the LS would share in common. The Jewell would be a much bigger boat volumetrically. I will see if I can post a couple of pics for comparison in a moment.

[John hartmann]

Here are a couple of images which might give a sense of the difference in volumes of the LS and Jewell:

F89DD07F-CF22-400B-9C71-59204C61D100.jpg
CD253ED7-A91C-4D89-BFBB-8C59F27C721D.jpg
The two boats are within a couple of inches in length, but the Jewell is almost 2 feet wider. While cruising, I have almost 200# of internal ballast between batteries, potable water, and spare anchor; her ballast ratio outfitted thus is approaching 30%. It has been a long while since I looked at Vivier’s stability data, but my recollection is that her point of vanishing stability requires a knockdown beyond 120 degrees.

[Dave Hadfield]

The Gulf of St. Lawrence? That can be a very inhospitable place.

I would want positive stability from a knockdown, and a wood-stove in the cabin, however small.

That means ballast and a motor I suspect.

[boussole]

Hey Everyone,
Thanks for all the suggestions and advices! They have given me a lot to think about and a lot of research to do (which for me, means a LOT of fun )

I have started compiling all of the suggestions so I can compare them and find out what would best suits my needs. It will take a while and I welcome more Ideas!!

I'll let you know what I settle on, in the end.

[JanB]

Disclaimer: Amateur opinion.

Dudley Dix's Cape Cutter 19 trailer-sailer. Centre board or bilge keel.

It was designed in Cape Town where there is no protected sea sailing - once you are out the harbour you are in the Atlantic Ocean.

The only of your criteria that it fails is that is quite beamy at 2,2 m.

[Matt young]

When you say sleep on board do you mean in a small cabin or under a cockpit tent?

[boussole]

Either is good. I have a lot of experience backpacking, so tents are no problems for me.

[jpatrick]

The ultimate answer depends on the cut of one's personal jib. Frank Dye made a few ocean voyages in the north Atlantic that would intimidate most of us. His boat was an un-ballasted, sixteen foot Wayfarer. No cabin, no heat, no motor. The OP is asking for much less. But still...

Jeff

[Dave Hadfield]

Disclaimer: Amateur opinion.

Dudley Dix's Cape Cutter 19 trailer-sailer. Centre board or bilge keel.

It was designed in Cape Town where there is no protected sea sailing - once you are out the harbour you are in the Atlantic Ocean.

The only of your criteria that it fails is that is quite beamy at 2,2 m.

That one looks good. Not sail-and-oar, but still very practical.

[David G]

Did I miss the parts about auxillary power? I got 'no engine'. So will you rely 100% on sail? Or do oars factor in? If so, how WELL does it need to row? Or yuloh? Or a pole for working up the shallow rivers? Or?????

[boussole]

Did I miss the parts about auxillary power? I got 'no engine'. So will you rely 100% on sail? Or do oars factor in? If so, how WELL does it need to row? Or yuloh? Or a pole for working up the shallow rivers? Or?????

Sail and Oars (or Yuloh).

[WI-Tom]

Sail and Oars (or Yuloh).

Long Steps is a real contender for sure, then. Ballasted enough to be rightable by a solo sailor, and a self-draining cockpit. Rows decently for a boat of that weight, as it's based on the Walkabout hull and is intended for rowing.

A cabin boat like the Vivier Jewell might be rowed somewhat efficiently by standing and facing forward. John Hartman (he has posted here already) would be the one to ask, I suspect.

I do wonder about what happens if that big cockpit fills with water on a long passage. Not sure it's self-draining.

So, maybe next question is: Do you want a little cabin, a very little "cabin" (Long Steps), or a more open boat?

Tom