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Thread: looking for suggestions for a coastal cruiser

  1. #36
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    Default Re: looking for suggestions for a coastal cruiser

    I'd much rather lay in my bunk all freakin day lookin at Youtube videos .

  2. #37
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    Default Re: looking for suggestions for a coastal cruiser

    Quote Originally Posted by boussole View Post
    Hi Everyone,
    I'm a new member here but I've been lurking around for a long time

    I'm looking for suggestions for a coastal cruiser that I can build in my garage. The maximum dimensions of the boat would be 19ft with a beam of 6ft.
    Quote Originally Posted by P.I. Stazzer-Newt View Post
    Tiki 21
    Just sayin'...

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  3. #38
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    Default Re: looking for suggestions for a coastal cruiser

    Paul Fisher’s Highlander 18 and Tracker are good looking options. At a beam of 6’-4” the 18 will be stable, but not as easy to row as a narrower one. Tracker at 5’-4” beam better to row. Water ballast, good hull shape, and designed to go together easier than some. They could take a sleeping platform fore, I’d prefer this to sleeping on the sole or having to board between the seats, as in Longsteps. Paul is open to rig options.

    https://www.selway-fisher.com/Highlanders.htm

    https://www.selway-fisher.com/OtherDB.htm#TRACKER
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    Last edited by Matt young; 01-22-2023 at 06:39 AM.
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  4. #39
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    Default Re: looking for suggestions for a coastal cruiser

    Quote Originally Posted by WI-Tom View Post
    So, maybe next question is: Do you want a little cabin, a very little "cabin" (Long Steps), or a more open boat?
    I've been doing a lot of thinking about that. The result is that I want, at least, a little cabin for some shelter. Now, of course, I'd like a full size proper cabin with place to sit and sleep comfortably on board, but, after looking at all of the suggestions, I find that the bigger the cabin, the less row-able the boat become and, coming from a canoeing/kayaking space, moving with paddle and oars is important for me.

    The more I look at it, the more I think that the Long Steps is the right boat for me.

    I would not attempt a long crossing right away in the long steps, but, after taking the time to really know the boat, practice solo recovery and equip her for such a journey, I think it would be possible to do safely.

  5. #40
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    Default Re: looking for suggestions for a coastal cruiser

    Quote Originally Posted by boussole View Post
    Hi Everyone,
    I'm a new member here but I've been lurking around for a long time

    I'm looking for suggestions for a coastal cruiser that I can build in my garage. The maximum dimensions of the boat would be 19ft with a beam of 6ft. Now here's the catch, I'd like this boat to:

    - be capable of crossings up to 100 nautical miles,
    - be capable of carrying 1 to 2 weeks of supplies,
    - have accommodation to sleep 1 person on board,
    Quote Originally Posted by P.I. Stazzer-Newt View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by WI-Tom View Post
    Just sayin'...

    Tom
    The individual hull Bmax is just over three feet.

    Quote Originally Posted by boussole View Post
    My shed is 12 x 22,
    Pythagoras says the diagonal of the shed is 25 feet.

    Just Sayin'
    I'd much rather lay in my bunk all freakin day lookin at Youtube videos .

  6. #41
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    Default Re: looking for suggestions for a coastal cruiser

    Yep, it's common--perhaps even sometimes useful--to push the boundaries when someone describes specific requirements. The 6' beam seems flexible, based on later replies to the thread. I see nothing to indicate that the requirement for a 19' boat is tied to shed size, though. So a Tiki 21? Just' sayin...

    I'm amused when multi-hulls get suggested when a request for designs that fit much more obviously within monohull capacities. But then, nothing wrong with that--lots of people like multihulls, too.

    Tom
    Last edited by WI-Tom; 01-22-2023 at 09:51 AM.
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  7. #42
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    Default Re: looking for suggestions for a coastal cruiser

    If someone is about to embark on the long process of custom building a boat then the one thng above all that matters - is the ability of the design to inspire - and that will always be an intensly personal matter.
    I'd much rather lay in my bunk all freakin day lookin at Youtube videos .

  8. #43
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    Default Re: looking for suggestions for a coastal cruiser

    Quote Originally Posted by P.I. Stazzer-Newt View Post
    If someone is about to embark on the long process of custom building a boat then the one thng above all that matters - is the ability of the design to inspire - and that will always be an intensly personal matter.
    Maybe. Yep. Another thing that matters is if the design in question will serve its intended purpose well. Balancing the two--inspiration vs. practicality--is crucial. My own biases run strongly toward monohulls, both in the inspiration and the practicality aspects. Others will have their own ideas about that, of course, but those are mine, and reflect my own experiences, biases, inclinations, and the kinds of trips I like to do.

    It's true, though, that multihulls tend to get overlooked, and they probably deserve a mention now and then.

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  9. #44
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    Default Re: looking for suggestions for a coastal cruiser

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt young View Post
    Paul Fisher’s Highlander 18 and Tracker are good looking options. At a beam of 6’-4” the 18 will be stable, but not as easy to row as a narrower one. Tracker at 5’-4” beam better to row. Water ballast, good hull shape, and designed to go together easier than some. They could take a sleeping platform fore, I’d prefer this to sleeping on the sole or having to board between the seats, as in Longsteps. Paul is open to rig options.

    https://www.selway-fisher.com/Highlanders.htm

    https://www.selway-fisher.com/OtherDB.htm#TRACKER
    I never like the look of the drawings for the Highlander designs, but that photo of the Tracker looks nice. That's a very big boat, though, and 750 lbs empty weight is probably not ideal if a lot of rowing is planned. I wonder if the cuddy has sitting headroom?

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  10. #45
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    Can you be more specific on the part about navigating up tidal rivers without an engine? If you plan to sail if there is wind, then fine. If you mean narrow rivers under oar, then windage is an issue.
    I have Long Steps smaller cousin Walkabout, which has low freeboard and only a folding soft cuddy. I frequently row up tidal rivers, which tend to channel the wind, and need to minimize windage to get anywhere. The bigger cabin designs would not be practical for that.
    - Rick

  11. #46
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    Default Re: looking for suggestions for a coastal cruiser

    Quote Originally Posted by JanB View Post
    Disclaimer: Amateur opinion.

    Dudley Dix's Cape Cutter 19 trailer-sailer. Centre board or bilge keel.

    It was designed in Cape Town where there is no protected sea sailing - once you are out the harbour you are in the Atlantic Ocean.

    The only of your criteria that it fails is that is quite beamy at 2,2 m.

    I considered building the Dudley dix design several years ago. I went as far as ordering the study plans and spoke to Dudley Dix himself. It certainly seems capable. After spec’ing out the cost of materials and outfitting for this boat I came out with a cost north of $40K so I decide against it. The price of lumber and outfitting have increased significantly since then. You can buy a pretty nice used boat for $40K.

  12. #47
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    Default Re: looking for suggestions for a coastal cruiser

    Thinking some more about the OP’s originally stated intention of a search for an open engineless sail and oar boat able take on a crossing of 100 nautical miles, e.g. Miami to Nassau.

    There is the question of the right boat, of course, but it seems to me that, for a journey like that, equally important is capability of the crew/solo sailor and how the boat is rigged and equipped. Think of the difference between a standard Scamp and Howard Rice’s Southern Cross.

    100 nm is a long way to take an engineless boat in one go. It has been done and Long Steps would be capable of it, but what about the crew? Assuming reasonably consistent winds, based on my experience with my own similarly sized boat, you would be doing very well to maintain an average of 4 – 4 ˝ knots over that distance. That means at least 22 – 25 hours of constant attention to the helm and sail trim. With a crew of 2, you can swap watches and the off-watch member can rest and stay sharp.

    Solo? Again, it can be done, but towards the last third of that time, if not before, fatigue makes your attention wander and dulls your judgment. And that time period is if the wind stays steady. If it drops or goes calm then the time increases and you might even need to take to the oars. So, not something to be undertaken without a lot of physical and mental stamina in the tank. The task would be rendered easier with some sort of self-steering arrangement so that the solo sailor would be able to at least get some rest, of not a little bit of sleep.

    A wind-vane self steerer might not scale down well to a boat of this size (at least I am not aware of any).

    An electric auto-helm would make more sense. Colin Angus equipped his Row-Cruiser with one. If you did that, you would of course need a battery to power the thing and sufficient power, likely solar PV panel(s) to charge it. So the design considerations would need to include the weight of a suitable battery, space to stow it, and a place to mount a sufficiently large solar panel.
    Alex

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  13. #48
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    Default Re: looking for suggestions for a coastal cruiser

    Good points on the demands of a long solo passage, Alex. Another thing to consider is traffic. Can a solo sailor stay alert enough to avoid shipping traffic?

    As far as steering, didn't Webb Chiles use a wind vane on his Drascombe Lugger? That's about the same size as a Long Steps.

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  14. #49
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    Default Re: looking for suggestions for a coastal cruiser

    I found a wave calculator online https://swellbeat.com/wave-calculator/

    Using 50 miles (80km) and an optimistic (IMO) 12 hours to get the mid point of a 100 mile (160kn) passage with a wind speed of 15 knots you get: Significant Wave Height = 1.27 m (just over 4') and Peak Wave Period = 5.38 s

    Take that down to 10 knots and you get: Significant Wave Height = 0.70 m (just under 3') and Peak Wave Period = 4.07 s

    10-15 knots is pretty good sailing for a small boat in relatively protected waters but working through a prolonged stretch of 3'-4' swells in a good sail&oar boat just sounds exhausting whether solo or with crew. yes, Frank Dye took his Wayfarer on some epic voyages but he also experienced some absolutely harrowing conditions while doing it.

    Sailing on the Salish in a good breeze can put you out in 2-3' of swell, my 19'-9"x6'-8" Eun Mara is working pretty hard to windward in those conditions and just plain moving around a lot off the wind. Would I consider taking her on a 100 mile passage? Given a solid good weather forecast, yes. She's got a small cockpit in comparison to her overall size and will heave-to reasonably well when asked....but she'd be a beast to row any distance.

    I think the competing design specifications for a boat to row well while exploring shallow water and be seaworthy enough to do 100 mile open water crossings in something close to reasonable safety are going to be very tough to meet. Don't forget, 100 miles out means 100 miles back.
    Steve

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    Default Re: looking for suggestions for a coastal cruiser

    Quote Originally Posted by WI-Tom View Post
    I never like the look of the drawings for the Highlander designs, but that photo of the Tracker looks nice. That's a very big boat, though, and 750 lbs empty weight is probably not ideal if a lot of rowing is planned. I wonder if the cuddy has sitting headroom?

    Tom
    I like the looks of the Highlanders the chines, narrow flat bottom, bow, and overall. But we don't have to agree on that.
    The photo is of the Highlander 18 not the Tracker, not sure if you are referring to the photograph when you said "looks nice"


    The Tracker is 3" narrower and 24" shorter than Longsteps, so less boat. As to weight I would think there wouldn't be much of a difference. There looks to be plenty of wood in a Longsteps. In my opinion the biggest factor for weight would be, how carefully that factor is managed during the build, the type of ply used, amount of epoxy, and how many components were added as opposed to open and fairly simple [drybags vs watertight compartments.
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  16. #51
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    Default Re: looking for suggestions for a coastal cruiser

    After spec’ing out the cost of materials and outfitting for this boat (Dix Cape Cutter 19) I came out with a cost north of $40K s
    I don't understand that figure. I put together my 18' CLC Autumn Leaves for $15,000 from a kit. If I had built from scratch, it would have been somewhat less than that. But the cost question is a good one. As soon as you're looking at boats for cruising, it's cheaper to buy an older plastic thing. For example, I suggested the Oughtred Wee Seal. But for much less than the build cost of that boat -- about half if not less -- you can buy a Cape Dory Typhoon and go sailing tomorrow.

    Decisions, decisions.
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  17. #52
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    Default Re: looking for suggestions for a coastal cruiser

    Quote Originally Posted by stromborg View Post
    I found a wave calculator online https://swellbeat.com/wave-calculator/

    Using 50 miles (80km) and an optimistic (IMO) 12 hours to get the mid point of a 100 mile (160kn) passage with a wind speed of 15 knots you get: Significant Wave Height = 1.27 m (just over 4') and Peak Wave Period = 5.38 s

    Take that down to 10 knots and you get: Significant Wave Height = 0.70 m (just under 3') and Peak Wave Period = 4.07 s

    10-15 knots is pretty good sailing for a small boat in relatively protected waters but working through a prolonged stretch of 3'-4' swells in a good sail&oar boat just sounds exhausting whether solo or with crew. yes, Frank Dye took his Wayfarer on some epic voyages but he also experienced some absolutely harrowing conditions while doing it.

    Sailing on the Salish in a good breeze can put you out in 2-3' of swell, my 19'-9"x6'-8" Eun Mara is working pretty hard to windward in those conditions and just plain moving around a lot off the wind. Would I consider taking her on a 100 mile passage? Given a solid good weather forecast, yes. She's got a small cockpit in comparison to her overall size and will heave-to reasonably well when asked....but she'd be a beast to row any distance.

    I think the competing design specifications for a boat to row well while exploring shallow water and be seaworthy enough to do 100 mile open water crossings in something close to reasonable safety are going to be very tough to meet. Don't forget, 100 miles out means 100 miles back.
    What Steve said. The picture is a Sea Pearl, a classic open sail and oar dinghy, on outer Casco Bay, one reef in with winds 15-20, seas 2-3’. We are just inside Jewell Island, sheltered from the 4-5 foot swell on a 6-8 second period outside, in the Gulf of Maine. An elegant time was had by all. A few hours or a half day of this without a break? Sure. A few days in a row, even, along a coastline or in an archipelago where there are nearby rabbit holes to duck into if conditions go south, and breaks to be had for food and rest. For 24+ hours without a break, solo, and the nearest rabbit hole 12 hours away? For me, that would be beyond sporty, and well into epic, and frankly unsafe by that point. The fatigue factor leading to slow responses and possible mistakes would be important. For what it is worth, my Ilur dinghy is a much more physical boat to sail than her larger sibling, though I would not want to row the Jewell any distance at all, at all. My interest in cruising lands me squarely in the littoral zone, and the Ilur and Jewell were both designed with that type of sailing in mind. It is surely possible to find a boat capable of along shore as well as open water crossings, but it will likely be optimized for one or the other. I like John Welsford’s Long Steps a lot, for what it is worth.
    0C41A56C-782E-49FA-A56A-1E995E05E78C.jpg

  18. #53
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    Default Re: looking for suggestions for a coastal cruiser

    Grahm at B&B yachts has worked out a pretty cool self-steering vane design for his Core Sounds

  19. #54
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    Default Re: looking for suggestions for a coastal cruiser

    Quote Originally Posted by Woxbox View Post
    I don't understand that figure. I put together my 18' CLC Autumn Leaves for $15,000 from a kit. If I had built from scratch, it would have been somewhat less than that. But the cost question is a good one. As soon as you're looking at boats for cruising, it's cheaper to buy an older plastic thing. For example, I suggested the Oughtred Wee Seal. But for much less than the build cost of that boat -- about half if not less -- you can buy a Cape Dory Typhoon and go sailing tomorrow.

    Decisions, decisions.
    The cost estimate included sails, hardware, electronics, off shore safety gear some sort of auto pilot etc, etc. I found the cost of outfitting after building the boat is a significant portion of the cost of the boat. This is especially true as other have pointed out if you are going to make an offshore passage.

    I ended up building a Walt Simmons design wherry for probably ~$10K- $12K with outfitting. Nice boat for day sailing, fishing and rowing, but I wouldn’t take it out to far out into the ocean past the breakwater in Charleston harbor.

    I don’t believe an all in budget has been discussed in this thread.

  20. #55
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    Default Re: looking for suggestions for a coastal cruiser

    long step is too narrow and have a too large cockpit to bail the water out once capsize 100 miles away..... cape henry is a full closed cabin boat. acctually now i am building a cape henry 21 feet larger sister then cape cutter 19 but the same.
    first i build a pathfinder welsford boat for coastal sailing but after a while i found it too large to be a open boat for the kind of patagonian sailing i like to do, so thats the reason i choice go ahead with a closed cabin not too large and shallow boat design.

    my opinion.

  21. #56
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    Default Re: looking for suggestions for a coastal cruiser

    Quote Originally Posted by pablobesser View Post
    long step is too narrow and have a too large cockpit to bail the water out once capsize 100 miles away..... cape henry is a full closed cabin boat. acctually now i am building a cape henry 21 feet larger sister then cape cutter 19 but the same.
    first i build a pathfinder welsford boat for coastal sailing but after a while i found it too large to be a open boat for the kind of patagonian sailing i like to do, so thats the reason i choice go ahead with a closed cabin not too large and shallow boat design.

    my opinion.
    Long Steps has a self-draining cockpit and water ballast, as does Scamp. I have watched a Scamp be capsized (on purpose), and then righted, re-boarded, and sailed away without bailing, all in less than one minute. So I don't think you are correct about Long Steps.

    Also, what you see as "too narrow" is a hull shape that allows Long Steps to be rowed, rather than needing an engine.

    Patagonia? I'm not sure I'd want to sail much of anything short of a keelboat there! (And one designed for high latitudes).

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  22. #57
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    Default Re: looking for suggestions for a coastal cruiser

    Why is everyone thinking monohull?

    I think a Tiki 21 would be ideal. Easy to build one hull at a time in the shop.
    No doubt what-so-ever about it being suitable for any crossing - One was actually sailed around the world.

    A pretty easy build, shallow draft, easily beached, easily trailered if a bit long to setup at the water.

    She checks all the boxes -

    - be capable of crossings up to 100 nautical miles,
    - be capable of carrying 1 to 2 weeks of supplies,
    - have accommodation to sleep 1 person on board,

    Ideally, it would also be engineless and be able to navigate up tidal rivers (shallow draft, mast on tabernacle, ...) but those are "nice to have".
    And oh yeah, it will sail rings around anything else shown in this thread, blow high or low.



  23. #58
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    Default Re: looking for suggestions for a coastal cruiser

    The question of monohulls--I mean, the question of why they hold no personal appeal for me despite some undeniable advantages--always intrigues me. A few thoughts:

    1. A more complex build in some ways--2 hulls to build rather than one, 2 rudders.
    2. Complexities in transport--too wide for trailering? Need to dis-assemble and re-assemble? Heavy.
    3. Not naturally suitable for rowing.
    4. Too wide to fit in some of the narrow passages I like to explore.
    5. No ties to Western cultural heritage or maritime tradition, so perhaps lacking an essential element of romance for some (I'll admit to that for myself--they just don't grab me).
    6. Fears (warranted or not) of being unrecoverable from a capsize by a solo sailor.

    They're an odd duck, multihulls. I just am not at all drawn to them as a cruising boat.

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    Default Re: looking for suggestions for a coastal cruiser

    Quote Originally Posted by Etdbob View Post
    Why is everyone thinking monohull?

    I think a Tiki 21 would be ideal. Easy to build one hull at a time in the shop.
    No doubt what-so-ever about it being suitable for any crossing - One was actually sailed around the world.

    A pretty easy build, shallow draft, easily beached, easily trailered if a bit long to setup at the water.

    She checks all the boxes -



    And oh yeah, it will sail rings around anything else shown in this thread, blow high or low.


    You are entirely correct, of course -- in a pragmatic way. But selecting a boat is like selecting a life partner. One has preconceptions that frame the options. Another multihull that makes lots of sense on paper but doesn't pull at the heartstrings for most is Bernd Kohler's Eco 55 and similar boats. This is shorter than the Wharram, yet has way more interior space. And it doesn't need to be assembled on the beach. But yeah, the looks.

    -Dave

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    Default Re: looking for suggestions for a coastal cruiser

    Time to review the epic small catamaran voyage from back in 2008. Some people just do what they want to do, no fuss at all.

    http://turtleislands.net/tmc/


    onroof.jpg

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    Default Re: looking for suggestions for a coastal cruiser

    My 17' sail-n-oar has the same beam, 67", as Long Steps and rows pretty well with 9' 6" oars and sliding seats.

    I got Long Steps study plans from Duckworks. $10 I think.
    Last edited by Autonomous; 03-18-2023 at 06:53 PM.
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  27. #62
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    Default Re: looking for suggestions for a coastal cruiser

    I've looked real hard at the Eco 55 cat. The interior is nice, it trailers easily because it's narrow, and that's why I hesitate. It's narrow, and when pressed can capsize. It is not a big boat and is NOT intended for offshore passages. I'd have to sail an Eco 55 for several season and really wring it out before I'd trust it to cross the gulf stream. Once across it would be a blast to spend the winter messing about the Bahamas in, I'm sure.

    Plus, the Eco 55 takes a staggering 27 sheets of plywood to build! I'd throw one together just for messing about on lake Roosevelt and Puget sound if it wasn't so expensive.

    I trust the Tiki 21 not to capsize and to take care of me pretty much no matter what. I'd take one across the gulf stream sure.
    It takes 19 sheets of ply to build, or less, if you use a cedar slat deck. My wife put her foot down though, and "will not sleep in a torpedo", so the Tiki 21 will remain a dream for me!

    In theory, the Hot Chili Cat uses only 16 sheets of plywood. I need to look into this...I found out today my local Ace Hardware is selling off its supply of plywood and lumber cheap....


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    Default Re: looking for suggestions for a coastal cruiser

    I bought study plans for the Tiki 21 and 26 many years ago. The interior in the 21 is very tight -- I recall mocking it up and deciding, nope, ain't gonna work for me. The 26 is workable. Of course, you can pitch a tent on the decks of either of these boats and have a roomy, well-ventilated place to sleep. In any event, the 26 would have been too difficult to assemble and break down on a regular basis. I wound up buying and rebuilding a beat-up Searunner 25, which proved to be a great boat. It lived on its trailer and was launched and retrieved countless times, often single-handed.

    I wonder what Bernd Kohler would say about water ballast tanks in an Eco. This is what the Gougeon brothers did to keep their narrow G32 catamaran right-side up in rougher weather. It was up to the skipper to decide how much ballast needed to be taken on day-by-day. The Gougeon boat also had a trick mast with a float on top so that it couldn't go past 90 degrees, and could be righted by hauling on the downside shroud. Another possible safety measure for the Eco catamarans?

    As always, tradeoffs.
    -Dave

  29. #64
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    Default Re: looking for suggestions for a coastal cruiser

    Not sure if plans are available yet https://www.clcboats.com/life-of-boa...anoe-Yawl.html

  30. #65
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    Default Re: looking for suggestions for a coastal cruiser

    This boat might do, you could have a different rig if you like. I'm building the 33 ft version of this design, big project and there are time I wish Id started the 23 instead. But it's well within the grasp of an armature builder. I think you could easily sail a good distance.


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    Default Re: looking for suggestions for a coastal cruiser

    Quote Originally Posted by adktripper View Post
    Not sure if plans are available yet https://www.clcboats.com/life-of-boa...anoe-Yawl.html
    I think a willing customer would put the hurry on getting those plans completed if a person wanted to build an Ollie.

    -Dave

  32. #67
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    9,838

    Default Re: looking for suggestions for a coastal cruiser

    But we have strayed far from the request:
    The maximum dimensions of the boat would be 19ft with a beam of 6ft.
    -Dave

  33. #68
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    PNW
    Posts
    835

    Default Re: looking for suggestions for a coastal cruiser

    Before we get back on topic let me throw another log on the fire.
    Ian Oughtred's design are lookers. My only complaint is the lack of flotation his open designs have though a builder could address that during construction.
    Here is one of his designs that is a goddess.
    Sharpie Haiku
    Oughtred Boats : plans kits building sailing rigging & lots of boat stuff : Iain Oughtred Designs (straydogboatworks.com)



    Edited for accuracy.
    Last edited by Autonomous; 03-19-2023 at 08:14 PM.
    ​​♦ During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act
    ♦ The further a society drifts from truth the more it will hate those who speak it
    ♦ If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear
    ♦ George Orwell

  34. #69
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    9,838

    Default Re: looking for suggestions for a coastal cruiser

    The Haiku is fantastic. A beautiful take on the traditional sharpie. I would love to have one, but like the OP here, my building and storage space just isn't long enough. That's why I went with the Autumn Leaves, which, if you think about it, is what happens when you shrink a Haiku down to 18 feet.
    -Dave

  35. #70
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    9,838

    Default Re: looking for suggestions for a coastal cruiser

    With apologies to Mr. Oughtred, I've shrunk his Haiku fore-n-aft to match the LOA of the Autumn Leaves.

    Haiku - AL comp.jpg
    -Dave

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