A 50 mile daysail attempt

[The Jeff]

For quite a while I’ve wanted to do a 50 mile daysail just to do it and back in August the weather looked like I might be able to make it. So I set out from the Piankatank River and headed down the Chesapeake to Fort Monroe at the mouth of the James.



I motored over to a nearby dock at a friend’s house for the night with the trolling motor setup I’ve been working on lately. It did well powering me at 3.5 – 4 mph with 185 watts of power and the stock propeller, although the tide was in my favor. Eventually I plan to get a better battery and I'm currently experimenting with a PWM controller and a 10 x 6 model airplane propellor. That has increased the speed 47% and decreased the power consumption 23%.



Rigged and ready to go for a pre sunrise start. Everything was still and quiet when I launched other than the slight hum of the motor and water gurgling by.



The plan was to head out into the Chesapeake Bay and sail south 50 miles to Fort Monroe where my wife would pick me up. The forecasted winds showed a broad reach on port tack all day long, although I was a bit concerned about the 15-20 mph wind speed.



Heading down the Piankatank with a preemptive reef in. A group of three dolphins puffed their way by as I was beginning to wonder if the reef was really necessary.



As I rounded the corner and saw the open bay in the distance I started hitting some gusts that made me thankful I started out with a reef.

[Larks]

This is looking like a nice trip

[Ted Hoppe]

Nice boat and great start. I am wondering if you were a yacht club member; could you; would you daysail from yacht club to yacht club planning a week long cruise. Seems like a great thing to think about during the winter.

Or perhaps organizing a raid next time. would be a great way to spend the dog days of August.

[auscruisertom]

Great trip can’t wait for the next consignment. I’m thinking of doing similar from bar to bar.

Interesting electric motor is it modified?

[The Jeff]

Thanks Larks!

Nice boat and great start. I am wondering if you were a yacht club member; could you; would you daysail from yacht club to yacht club planning a week long cruise. Seems like a great thing to think about during the winter.

Or perhaps organizing a raid next time. would be a great way to spend the dog days of August.

All possibilities and something I'd like to do in the future... although I think I'd prefer to find somewhere more tucked away to spend the night most of the time. But I've definitely done a lot of winter cruising in Google Earth looking for boat ramps and cool places to go on a multi day trip. Right now I've got an 9 month old to take care of so long daysails are about the best I can do at the moment.

Interesting electric motor is it modified?

I cut the shaft down on a cheap trolling motor and made a control box so I can sit in the boat for optimal trim and keep the electronics dry. Apparently this is a fairly popular mod for kayak fishermen which is where I got the idea. And here on the forum a few people have had success with 10x6 pusher props on similar size boats and so far I'm impressed with it. Here's a condensed version of what I did and the rest is in my build thread: https://sailingmoga.com/trolling-motor/

[WI-Tom]

Cool! The only times I've managed 50-mile days is on the Texas 200, where it's 20-25 knots of wind on a starboard tack broad reach all day long, pretty much.

Tom

[sp_clark]

50 mile days... I have yet to experience a five mile day, but it'll happen. Just need to get out more.

I liked the bit about a model airplane prop improving performance of his electric trolling motor. What's the physics that could account for that?

[AJBTC]

This piqued my interest so I read your blog version of this trip, this is a good story!

[The Jeff]

Cool! The only times I've managed 50-mile days is on the Texas 200, where it's 20-25 knots of wind on a starboard tack broad reach all day long, pretty much.

Tom

I've done 40+ miles three times and two of them were pretty breezy... the other was just a really long day. I've read a few trip reports of the Texas 200 where they just blast along all day, sounds pretty fun!

I liked the bit about a model airplane prop improving performance of his electric trolling motor. What's the physics that could account for that?

From what I understand, your average trolling motor propeller is built to be rugged and shed weeds. The airplane propeller is a much more efficient shape, similar to how a Bermuda rig will out point my lower aspect ratio spritsail. Plus, the 10x6 pitch seems to be better for lighter boats than whatever the stock one is. It's been a lot of fun tinkering with propellers, fairings, learning about electronics, and trying to do halfway scientific speed tests.

AJBTC glad you liked it! It was one of those trips that is more fun to think about than actually being there at the time.

-------

Heading toward the bay on a close reach and the wind was starting to pick up. The waves were choppy and I had to hike hard and let the main luff at times. Off Stove Point I briefly turned around and the conditions improved so much on a broad reach that I decided once I got around Gwynn’s Island things would be ok. As you can see from the map, that was not to be the case!



I made it through some bigger waves at the mouth of the Piankatank and turned south for Fort Monroe. Things did get a bit better after the wet and windy beat into the bay, but the waves were still pretty big. Maybe 2-3 feet? They’d hit the back quarter and slew the boat a bit, so steering took my constant attention. Unfortunately water got on my phone’s camera lens so the rest of the few pictures I took are a bit blurry. Moving along at 5.5 to 6 mph.



The water in the boat was gradually building up because I didn’t have time or enough hands to bail it out. Most of this was due to spray, but later towards the end of Gwynn’s Island a large wave broke over the port side and dumped a truly concerning amount of water into the boat. I could tell I was sitting pretty low and the free surface effect made everything sluggish. Each additional wave splashed a bit more water in and I realized I was soon going to swamp. I managed to get pointed into the wind and did the best I could to heave to and bailed like crazy. Some of the waves were definitely 3′ and occasionally breaking so it took some steering to stay pointed into them. A few times water came over the bow which set me back, but not enough I couldn’t keep up with the bailing.



Eventually I got the water down and had to make a decision. Do I continue on for Fort Monroe and risk this again? Or make for the nearest boat ramp and admit defeat? Fortunately common sense prevailed so I headed for the “Hole in the Wall,” a narrow channel through the sand bars below Gwynn’s Island just under a mile away. I turned onto a starboard tack and started blasting downhill toward it. I hit a new top speed of 10.3 mph and averaged 7 to 8 mph all the way through.



The waves calmed down significantly once I got into the channel and I could finally breathe again with the realization that I would probably make it home in one piece.

[robm]

Wow! Sounds like an automatic bailer might be a good idea. At 5 - 6 knots, it will keep the boat sucked dry.

[sp_clark]

Wow! Sounds like an automatic bailer might be a good idea. At 5 - 6 knots, it will keep the boat sucked dry.

"Sucked" makes me think fondly of the Elvestrom (now Anderson it seems) suction-type bailer I had on a stripper scow back some 50 years?

bailer.png

Yes indeed they work really swell but you have to keep moving for 'em to do the job.

Go dead in the water, best be ready & able to flip the bail to close the chute or you'll start taking on water....

A friend turned my eyes to the contemporary 12V powered bilge pumps available now. I built a self-contained bailer package -

Bilgepump.jpg

- for about $100 that'll do 500 gph in my Waterlust sailing canoe.

Powered by an AGM battery it proved its worth last year after an inadvertent capsize put me over the side.

Prices are higher now so maybe $100's a bit unrealistic yet when that moment comes its performance is welcome!

[The Jeff]

Yeah, I've given self bailers some thought a few times but in the end I've always decided against them. Growing up the one in my Sunfish constantly leaked and they won't work if you're not moving. But mostly I'm just loath to cut holes in the bottom of the boat.

I've got a 1100 GPH automatic bilge pump I use occasionally when I take the boat on vacation, so I'm thinking I might rig up some way to use it while sailing. The trolling motor is a bit of a compromise with my wife who wasn't too keen on me sailing across the Chesapeake Bay a few years ago without an engine, so I'll already have power for it.

-------

I was so relieved (and exhausted) to have made it that I started down the wrong creek! I got most of the way up to Mathew’s Yacht Club on Stutt’s Creek before realizing things didn’t look quite right, so I tacked out and headed up Milford Haven.



The sandbar is a popular beach spot, but today I was thankful it was shielding me from the waves on the bay.



Getting closer to the ramp I came across the recently approved oyster farm a bunch of people were raising sam hill about in the local newspaper’s letters to the editor. I agree it’s pretty ugly and it did get in the way of my tack, but then again fried oysters are just about my favorite food so I can’t complain too much.



Up near the ramp I had a chance to try my lightweight aluminum anchor I’ve been working on. My folding fisherman design is a bit too complicated for its own good, so I used the same geometry on a three piece take apart version. It dug in immediately and held well, although to be fair it was a pretty ideal anchoring setup. Then I tidied up the boat and got all the lines coiled while I waited for my wife to arrive. The boat ramp was chaos as usual, but fortunately my car and trailer are small so I could weave my way around the people who can’t back up. I ended up going 24.1 miles over 5.25 hours with an average speed of 4.6 mph.



And one last picture of how the anchor comes apart. The fluke assembly locks onto the 12.5º included angle tapered end of the 1/4″ thick shank. Then the stock assembly slip fits down to the shoulder and is secured by a carabiner on the anchor rode. I think the taper could be increased a tad since the fluke assembly can get really stuck on there, but a few taps with a block of wood will knock it loose.



After pondering this near disaster of a trip over the last few months I came to a few conclusions:

1. It’s probably best to listen to my gut a little closer when it comes to the conditions. I had a few opportunities to turn around and explore the Piankatank River for the day, but I kept going thinking it wouldn’t be so bad on a different point of sail. If I did swamp I knew I’d be blown onto a sandy beach and everything would have likely been fine, but some well meaning onlooker could have gotten the Coast Guard involved for nothing.

2. The experience and gradual improvements I’ve made to the boat over the last three years were invaluable. I don’t think this trip would have ended the same way in the first two years.

3. Finally, the First Mate isn’t the design I need for what I want to do. It's a great boat, but I’ve got ideas for some big trips and instead of trying to expedition-ify it I think I want something more purpose built. After another exhaustive search through boat plans I settled on John Welsford’s Long Steps. There's not a lot of them out there just yet, but if this is what he is building himself to circumnavigate the north island of New Zealand, I’m pretty sure it’ll work for me.




Thumbing through the plans I feel a little terrified of how much more work it’ll be to build than the First Mate, but I think this should be a lifetime boat. I probably won’t start building until the end of 2023 or so, and it might be a bit of a slow project considering my 9 month old son is starting to take off and get into everything. Plus I've got a pretty long honey do list of furniture and house improvements to keep my wife happy. "But you just built a boat, why do you need another?!" she says. Anyway, I'm currently converting the plans to a 3d CAD model as I have time so my brain can be figuring out the building process in the meantime.

Thanks for reading!

[Hugh MacD]

Thanks for posting

[WI-Tom]

Jeff,

thanks--great trip! (Now that you're done...) It's always interesting to sail out of the old comfort zone and see what happens. You're probably right that your first two years with the boat contributed to making it through OK.

I'd be interested to hear specific shortcomings of the First Mate that have led you toward Long Steps. What do you think would have been different about that day in a Long Steps?

-Water ballast?
-Mizzen for heaving to?
-Extra waterline length?
-Lug rig?
-Something else I'm not thinking of?

I've been a bit puzzled over the years with other people's experiences with the Phoenix III and now First Mate. I've always felt very secure in my brother's Phoenix III, and have never come close to dipping a lee rail or even needing to sit on the side deck, but others have. I'm 100 kg myself, and the boat is built of heavy birch ply, so maybe that's part of it.

Another difference, of course, is that you're using a honking big spritsail rig with a jib--104 sq ft total, I think? The balance lug for the Phoenix III is just 76 sq ft. It sure makes for comfortable cruising. Maybe a bit undercanvassed in light airs, but it seems to handle tough conditions very well. When I took a friend on the Texas 200, I think 57 boats started and 29 or something dropped out. And for us it was pretty much a pleasure cruise, broad reaching/running all day, one night had a 6-mile beat straight to windward up a narrow channel, etc. In a squall in the Everglades Challenge, we (briefly!) hit 13.2 knots (measured by my brother's GPS) and sailed downwind at 6 knots for hours (and that was reefed all the way down to a lateen triangle).

I wonder how you'd feel about your first mate with the smaller lug rig. Have you considered that? It'd be a much smaller project than a Long Steps build, obviously.

Long Steps is a great boat--probably the next build I'd consider if I were in a position to build again, or needed to. But it's a big boat, and there are advantages to using the smallest lightest boat that will do the job, too.

Choices, choices! Thanks again for sharing your trip. A good ending, I'd say.

Tom

[WX]

[QUOTE=The Jeff;6789605]Thanks Larks!



All possibilities and something I'd like to do in the future... although I think I'd prefer to find somewhere more tucked away to spend the night most of the time. But I've definitely done a lot of winter cruising in Google Earth looking for boat ramps and cool places to go on a multi day trip. Right now I've got an 9 month old to take care of so long daysails are about the best I can do at the moment.



I cut the shaft down on a cheap trolling motor and made a control box so I can sit in the boat for optimal trim and keep the electronics dry. Apparently this is a fairly popular mod for kayak fishermen which is where I got the idea. And here on the forum a few people have had success with 10x6 pusher props on similar size boats and so far I'm impressed with it. Here's a condensed version of what I did and the rest is in my build thread: https://sailingmoga.com/trolling-motor/

The link doesn't seem to be working. Ah belay that, the page just hadn't fully loaded.

[dalekidd]

What an exciting ride! Thanks for sharing. I enjoy reading your stories. I considered building First Mate and possibly the Phoenix. I went with Clint Chase's Calendar Islands Yawl 16. Just getting her done and eager to put her through her paces.

[Breakaway]

Thanks for sharing your adventure with us, Jeff.

Kevin

[The Jeff]

I'd be interested to hear specific shortcomings of the First Mate that have led you toward Long Steps. What do you think would have been different about that day in a Long Steps?

I think a Long Steps would have faired better in that specific situation for a few reasons. Less of the wave would have come aboard due to the higher freeboard. Even if all the water did make it in, it should drain into the footwell and stern area where it'd be a little more contained. And finally from what I gather the mizzen would have made heaving to a lot easier. I was surprised at how difficult it was to get pointed into the wind. I'm not sure I actually managed to get the jib backed, I think I just sailed half luffing and half close hauled while I was bailing which necessitated my attention on the tiller.

For a while I felt a bit sad that I was "giving up" on the First Mate, like I'm letting the boat down or something... but once I realized it's just a tool to go on adventures it got a lot easier to look for new plans. The First Mate is an excellent boat and had my needs (well, wants honestly) not changed, I would stay with it. And this trip isn't the only reason for a new build. My wife isn't a sailor and the few times I've taken her out she's been pretty uncomfortable. The low boom swinging across, centerboard in the way up front and the mainsheet behind her on the thwart. I think Long Step's openness, backrests, dodger, and water ballast will go a long way to her coming along on smaller trips. And lately we've taken a few friends out with the trolling motor and 5 people in a First Mate is a tad cramped!

I've been a bit puzzled over the years with other people's experiences with the Phoenix III and now First Mate. I've always felt very secure in my brother's Phoenix III, and have never come close to dipping a lee rail or even needing to sit on the side deck, but others have. I'm 100 kg myself, and the boat is built of heavy birch ply, so maybe that's part of it.

I know we've talked about the wildly different experiences we've had in what should be a very similar boat a few times before, and every time it blows my mind you've never had to sit on the side deck. I'd say at least half of my trips involve sitting on the rail and on this one I was hiking for all I was worth. You've got 15 pounds on me, my boat is lighter Okoume, and I rarely have any camping gear to speak of... but I bet the main factor is probably the additional sail area. The spritsail is definitely a looks over pure practicality thing for me.

I wonder how you'd feel about your first mate with the smaller lug rig. Have you considered that? It'd be a much smaller project than a Long Steps build, obviously.

I'm pretty well set on a bigger boat, so I think I'd rather put that effort into the build. Perhaps I should experiment with just the mainsail though.

But it's a big boat, and there are advantages to using the smallest lightest boat that will do the job, too.

That's been on my mind too. I definitely subscribe to the smaller boats get used more mentality, but I don't see Long Steps being any more difficult to trailer or take longer to rig at the ramp. Length will increase 4', beam 1', and draft an inch or two so I kind of feel like size wise it's in a similar category to the First Mate. Weight could be an issue though so dragging it over a sandbar like I did last year might not work.

All really thoughtful questions, makes me wonder if you haven't done a lot of small boating yourself

I went with Clint Chase's Calendar Islands Yawl 16. Just getting her done and eager to put her through her paces.

Good luck! I've found an almost endless list of little improvements to tinker with once you get launched and most of them I couldn't foresee until I had some experience with the boat. I'll have to check your thread out.

[WI-Tom]

Thanks, Jeff--all very thoughtful responses. The sail area must be the big thing, I agree. It makes for a much more casual experience with a smaller sail. I think we can reef down to about 36 sq ft, and have needed to do so a few times.

Long Steps looks great. If I weren't too lazy--for me it's definitely a case of not wanting to build again--it might well be the boat I'd choose now. Almost certainly would be, actually. As you say, once you put a boat on a trailer, it handles much the same whether it's 15' long and 200 lbs, or 19' long and 500 lbs.

But Long Steps didn't exist when I started my build. I did almost choose Welsford's Walkabout instead of my Alaska. The boat I have is a beauty, but--like any boat--it's a case of "Good enough" rather than "Perfect." I think Long Steps would inspire more confidence for longer passages for me. But even for weeks at a time, the things I'm doing can be done very well in a wide range of boats. Bad choices in a small boat are the same, I think, whether you're sailing a Long Steps or an Alaska--if the weather is bad enough to keep me ashore in my Alaska, I doubt I'd go out in my Long Steps either. (Though I'd probably fare better if I did).

Anyway, good luck with your build! Long Steps is very very cool. I hope I didn't steer you too wrong with my enthusiasm for the Phoenix III (which I still have!)

Tom

[auscruisertom]

Sounds like an adventurous cruise well done.
I find single handing a small open cruiser much more challenging than the average cruising yacht.

[skuthorp]

Longest I can remember in one day solo was around 25-28 mile with a following wind in a catamaran with an annoying habit of nose diving. I remember I was very tired and very wind burnt. 60 years ago or thereabouts.

[pez_leon]

Thanks for sharing the trip! I am glad you turned when you did. It's better to be back ashore wishing you were out there then it is to be out there wishing you were back ashore.
I am particularly curious about that well designed anchor. Keep us posted on how it works!
From a purely selfish perspective, I am very glad you are building a long steps. I would love to follow your progress! As a fellow parent of very young kids, allow me to recommend starting the build with the smallest parts. I built my foils, spars, sail, cleats, and other fiddly bits in stolen hours starting when my second kid was around the age yours is now. It was very good for me to be able to sneak away and work on something contained and discrete and very good for me to not have the monumental commitment of a partially built hull competing with the greater demands of a one-year-old. At five and three my kids are getting more independent by the day and I see constant improvements in the time I can work on my boat.


- James

[dbp1]

Sounds like Long Steps is the right next project. I hope you document it as well as you have your First Mate!

It's funny: what I fantasize about is _smaller_, not larger! There are many places near me where it would be nice to get on the water, but there is no ramp! I live <15 minutes from one of the big rivers that leads out to the ocean, and ~20 from the nearest beach with a parking lot, but the nearest (public) boat ramp is almost twice that distance! (there is a gravel ramp closer I'd like to try, which I think is open again).

Echoing James -- most of my build was done in 30 minute to 1hr sessions, fit in here and there when the kid was napping, or when trading off parenting. I used to make lists of "30 minute tasks" Only a few things (glassing, painting) didn't really work in that way, otherwise, it was surprisingly easy to do!

[The Jeff]

Long Steps looks great. If I weren't too lazy--for me it's definitely a case of not wanting to build again--it might well be the boat I'd choose now. Almost certainly would be, actually. As you say, once you put a boat on a trailer, it handles much the same whether it's 15' long and 200 lbs, or 19' long and 500 lbs.

I'm not particularly thrilled about building a boat again, but I'm too cheap to pay someone else so I guess I have to build it if I want it! I bought my First Mate plans in 2016 and I don't think I was aware of Long Steps (if it was even out yet). Not that I would have chose it in the first place because I thought glued lapstrake was beyond my capabilities.

I hope I didn't steer you too wrong with my enthusiasm for the Phoenix III (which I still have!)

Not at all! The experience of building and sailing it 600 miles has really helped me narrow down what I want and now I've got some idea of how to build a more complicated boat. If my priorities hadn't changed I would stay with the First Mate.

I am particularly curious about that well designed anchor. Keep us posted on how it works!

For quite a while I've been fascinated by anchors and their development from rocks with a hole in them to modern ones, but I've honestly had very little need for an anchor thus far. So designing and building them has really been mainly for the tinkering aspect.

My folding fisherman design had a few problems... it used pins and R clips to keep the flukes and stock in place which are fiddly, slow to operate, and prone to being lost. Plus the shank and cheeks were so thick that it never dug in more than horizontal. The geometry seemed to work really well so I got inspired by pictures of a Luke storm anchor to make a 3 piece version that doesn't require fasteners and was thin enough to dig in more.

The 12.5º included angle taper on the fluke assembly was a bit of a guess and not too far off, but it can get pretty stuck on there. Maybe 13º to 14º if I ever make another. Then I thought there's no reason for a fastener for the stock since the carabiner can retain it, so that's just a simple loose fit. I can see the stock getting bent though so we'll have to see how that holds up. I made the arms from pipe because I'm thinking I could fill them with lead if necessary to keep the fluke dug in. Chain tears up the finish and at this scale I don't think it'll weigh enough to make much difference.

The whole anchor is only 2 pounds but it's held well the few times I've used it. On my Barnegat Bay trip last year I got lost in a shallow section where the current was fast enough it was hard to walk in and the wind was pretty brisk too. I put out the anchor while I figured out where I was and it didn't drag at all. I imagine it'll be a good stern anchor for Long Steps.



I'll definitely make a build thread when I get a little closer to starting and it'll be documented in a more coherent manner on my website. There's not a whole lot out there that I've been able to find other than a Facebook album on NFRTT's build.



I appreciate the tips on boatbuilding with young children! I figured starting with the small stuff first in little half hour chunks would be the only way to go. Fortunately there's quite a few things that can be built before needing to assemble the hull and I'm not on a time crunch to get a boat built before I can go sailing.

I used to make lists of "30 minute tasks" Only a few things (glassing, painting) didn't really work in that way, otherwise, it was surprisingly easy to do!

I've been a little worried about how much work it's going to be, but I just gotta remind myself boats are a collection of small, easily accomplished jobs and not get bogged down thinking about the whole project. Your build thread has been an inspiration that it's possible!

[stromborg]

Getting the non-hull projects done before laying the keel is a great way to keep your momentum up late in the build. Chances are you'll have more space to work in too. Never hurts to know what you'll be needing so when a good deal pops up you can jump on it. I had two masts, two booms and two yards hanging on the wall overseeing construction when I built Marianita (gaff yawl=lots of spars).

I have a windlass, cast iron stove and mocked-up section of birdsmouth mast ready for a boat I won't be lofting for probably another two years....but I'm a serial builder, it is a question of "which" not "if" for me. There is a Drake 17 on the schedule for later in the spring too, subject for another thread when the time comes.

[csmead]

A friend turned my eyes to the contemporary 12V powered bilge pumps available now. I built a self-contained bailer package -

Bilgepump.jpg

- for about $100 that'll do 500 gph in my Waterlust sailing canoe.

Powered by an AGM battery it proved its worth last year after an inadvertent capsize put me over the side.

Prices are higher now so maybe $100's a bit unrealistic yet when that moment comes its performance is welcome!

This is very interesting! Do you have any more info on how you built your bailer package? What was your capsize experience like with it?

[sp_clark]

I'd have been in over my head had I not built then installed that contraption before my outing in 2021 that featured a 'premature' dunking. I'd gone out planning to do some capsize testing but never got into shallow enough water that didn't have a rocky bottom to get to that task.

Seems I can't attach the original PDF file that was sent to me by a friend who'd found it on-line and built one for himself before me. Will PM you, maybe I can send it that way or we can exchange e-mail addresses so I can send it on to you. OR you can contact the author/builder yourself, he's included his e-mail and indicated he's approachable for questions about this assembly.

Neither my friend nor I opted for the solar charging addition, but it's included in the PDF for those who might find that useful. I simply make sure my battery's charged before going out with it.

[gypsie]

Sorry for quick question - 50 miles = Nautical miles?

I swear by those self bailers for small boats - really good. When you're not moving they let in a little bit, but you'll always have a little bit of water in the bottom of a boat.
Nice anchor! love it.

Ah! mph

great read - thanks for sharing.

[csmead]

I'd have been in over my head had I not built then installed that contraption before my outing in 2021 that featured a 'premature' dunking. I'd gone out planning to do some capsize testing but never got into shallow enough water that didn't have a rocky bottom to get to that task.

Thanks! Just PMd you.