Mast step for lug sail

[neil.henderson]

I am building my first lugsail rigged boat (a Caledonia Yawl) after many sloop and gunter rigged boats over the years. I need to make the mast steps (main & mizzen). I'm comfortable that the mizzen mast should not rotate in its step so I will make the step square for the mizzen mast.
But should a lugsail rig mast rotate in its step? I think Iain's plans suggest the mainmast step should be square which suggests that a lugsail rig mast should not rotate - in which case the step should be square and that the mast needs to be securely trapped higher up where it fits into the mast support slot in the foredeck (I will deck fore & aft).

Any comments re. lugsail rigging? it's a new world to me. And should I put a sheave in the mainmast to raise the mainsail?

Thanks Neil

IMG_2810.jpg

[Hugh MacD]

Looking really good, Neal! I'll let others comment on the latest thinking on the mast step.

[Max F]

Hi Neil

A sheave athwartship works well.
I have changed it after some while.
Now I have a block on a short piece of rope tied to the mast top.
Actually I did this since a trip where the hallyard got badly jammed between slot an sheave.
Tied that is loosly hangs 6 inches.
This gives it a bit more freedom in moving arount the mast on different directions.
I liked it and left it that way.

Cheers Max

[Yeadon]

Key your mast step. Mine is a rectangle, fwiw.

[Kunzwerks]

These are the answers I got when asking the same question.

http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...t=#post6665281

[Toxophilite]

No rotation, Keyed in with a square/rectangluar key where it inserts in the step.

[Todd Bradshaw]

Lugsails don't need rotate. What you will find when you start sailing is that a lugsail is kind of like flying a kite. It is attached to a mast, but minimally, compared to a Bermuda sail.

[Peerie Maa]

As above.
A tenon on the heel of the mast, with shoulders to take the downward thrust from the rig. Matching mortise in the step.
Fit a sheave athwartship, unless you can stow an additional foot of mast height, when a block on a long strop can be used.
Don't forget to bore drain holes for the mortises in the steps.

[skuthorp]

Lugsails don't need rotate. What you will find when you start sailing is that a lugsail is kind of like flying a kite. It is attached to a mast, but minimally, compared to a Bermuda sail.

That made me really smile Todd. My balanced lug canoe is rigged the way it is on your advice. You even designed a dual boom 'spinnaker' to fly forward of the mast on a following wind. Being pulled along is far more stable than being pushed by the main.

[Peerie Maa]

That made me really smile Todd. My balanced lug canoe is rigged the way it is on your advice. You even designed a dual boom 'spinnaker' to fly forward of the mast on a following wind. Being pulled along is far more stable than being pushed by the main.

Dipping lugs and goose winged jibs are "lifting" sails, because of the dihedral to the wind. That will make the boat more comfortable.

[WI-Tom]

Not knowing much at all, I built my mast with a round tenon to fit a round hole in the mast step. I've never noticed any tendency for the mast to rotate--and I can't say the fit at the partner is particularly snug, either. In some conditions, if the mast is moving around more than I can tolerate at the moment, I tap a couple of small wedges between mast and mast box, below the partner. That tightens things up nicely. Until the wedges fall out.

As for a sheave, I use just a simple beehole, athwartships. I've not noticed any problems with that--the sail goes up and down nice and smoothly--and it's certainly simpler to build. Nor is there any possibility having the halyard jam between sheave and mast. My sail is 85 sq ft, so a sheave may be more necessary with a larger sail. It's probably a good idea to install a dowel above the beehole to prevent splitting?

Tom

[AJZimm]

Simple beehole/dumb sheave should be adequate for Caledonia foresail's non-rotating mast. If you build a birdsmouth mast, the blocking glued in at the mast tip to accommodate the beehole will obviate the need for a split-prevention dowel above it. Solid mast might be different.

[Autonomous]

My lug rig with a wooden mast has a square step and partner. The one with an aluminum mast is round. On that one I protect the paint in the way of the partner with clear helicopter tape. Other than that chafe at the partner, the round mast handles fine.
With a wooden mast I'd choose square.

[Toxophilite]

My boat when I got it had an over sized hole in the partners, even with the leathering on the mast the mast would wobble freely about. As a temporary measure to get sailing I used this tiny roll(5" long) of dense carpet that was on the mast at the partners likely for that very reason.

However I then went sailing in some lumpy conditions for a few days and the resulting movement transferred to the mast step,(which while fashioned according to the plans wasn't exactly super strong) worked it loose causing the screws fastening one of the little floors to the cedar planking to enlarge their holes allowing water to leak in. If it had really worked loose the mast could've come down on me etc. etc.

I rebuilt the mast step, making it stronger and leaving out the fastening to the planking (which I repaired) and then had my brother turn a rebated locust collar for the partners to hold the mast more snugly.

In my opinion I think it's important for the partners to fit reasonably snugly. It should be still easy to get the mast in and out but not wobbly. I think it's potentially dangerous. Maybe dependent upon the boat and construction.

Lovely build by the way. very handsome.

I too enjoyed the 'flying a kite' comparison.

Not knowing much at all, I built my mast with a round tenon to fit a round hole in the mast step. I've never noticed any tendency for the mast to rotate--and I can't say the fit at the partner is particularly snug, either. In some conditions, if the mast is moving around more than I can tolerate at the moment, I tap a couple of small wedges between mast and mast box, below the partner. That tightens things up nicely. Until the wedges fall out.

As for a sheave, I use just a simple beehole, athwartships. I've not noticed any problems with that--the sail goes up and down nice and smoothly--and it's certainly simpler to build. Nor is there any possibility having the halyard jam between sheave and mast. My sail is 85 sq ft, so a sheave may be more necessary with a larger sail. It's probably a good idea to install a dowel above the beehole to prevent splitting?

Tom

[Autonomous]

...I tap a couple of small wedges between mast and mast box, below the partner. That tightens things up nicely. Until the wedges fall out.

Maybe longer wedges with a more acute angle? Some sort of grippy paint or coating on them?

[AJZimm]

The mast on a Caledonia Yawl will step much easier if it steps into a tapered mast box. Then the partner can be held in place with a chock shaped to fit the mast and held down with a bungee.

Here's a shot of the box and chock on Fire-Drake, while it was still under construction and the inside hadn't been rounded yet to mate with the mast:
P1090457.jpg

Here is a shot of the setup in action. Apologies that I don't have any pictures that show it in more detail. Note that the mast box aft of the mast makes a handy place to stow the excess downhaul line:
DSCF0080.jpg

[neil.henderson]

The mast on a Caledonia Yawl will step much easier if it steps into a tapered mast box. Then the partner can be held in place with a chock shaped to fit the mast and held down with a bungee.

Here's a shot of the box and chock on Fire-Drake, while it was still under construction and the inside hadn't been rounded yet to mate with the mast:
P1090457.jpg

Here is a shot of the setup in action. Apologies that I don't have any pictures that show it in more detail. Note that the mast box aft of the mast makes a handy place to stow the excess downhaul line:
DSCF0080.jpg

Thanks to all for their comments & to Alex for the photos - that is pretty much what I am planning to do though I hadn't thought about tapering the mast box which sounds like a good idea as it would help capture the mast at the base. I have assumed that the box would be tapered athwartship...........

Regards Neil

[AJZimm]

I have assumed that the box would be tapered athwartship...........
Neil

Think about where you likely will be standing when you hold the mast for hoisting and stepping the mast. You'll likely be standing in the boat aft of the mast step. holding the mast horizontal at first, aligned fore and aft, then raising it to insert the heel. Much easier to do that if you have a fore/aft slot to aim for rather than just a hole or an athwartships slot.

[Peerie Maa]

The mast on a Caledonia Yawl will step much easier if it steps into a tapered mast box. Then the partner can be held in place with a chock shaped to fit the mast and held down with a bungee.

Here's a shot of the box and chock on Fire-Drake, while it was still under construction and the inside hadn't been rounded yet to mate with the mast:
P1090457.jpg

Here is a shot of the setup in action. Apologies that I don't have any pictures that show it in more detail. Note that the mast box aft of the mast makes a handy place to stow the excess downhaul line:
DSCF0080.jpg

I would prefer it if the box were open at the back, like a tabernacle. The box will then guide the heel down into the step before the mast is pushed upright, the mast gate can then be closed.

[WI-Tom]

I would prefer it if the box were open at the back, like a tabernacle. The box will then guide the heel down into the step before the mast is pushed upright, the mast gate can then be closed.

That's how the plans for my boat show it:

mast box.jpg

Then, for various reasons (including wanting an uninterrupted cleat for the forward edge of my sleeping platform), I closed off the back of the mast box instead of installing a gate. So, yes, I have to lift the mast out vertically for about 14" or so, instead of being able to tilt it. But so far, that has not proven to be very difficult.

Tom

[rgthom]

I do very little sailing, but built the bits for when I might get the time to put into really learning how. My 16 lb mast was at first stepped through the deck much like Tom's:



To me this was a disaster waiting to happen. Even when steady at the dock, stepping meant holding the mast very straight while lowering and aiming for the mating step on the sole. Any slip up in the angle stressed the deck, if I were to lose hold of it the deck would be trashed. No chance of lowering the mast on board in any wind or swells.

So, I made a gate in the deck, like this:





This is so much easier. Set the base of the mast in the bottom step while holding at an easy angle, tilt up into the gate and lock it. I can do that in rough conditions.

- Rick

[Peerie Maa]

That's how the plans for my boat show it:

mast box.jpg

Then, for various reasons (including wanting an uninterrupted cleat for the forward edge of my sleeping platform), I closed off the back of the mast box instead of installing a gate. So, yes, I have to lift the mast out vertically for about 14" or so, instead of being able to tilt it. But so far, that has not proven to be very difficult.

Tom

I think that you missed a trick.
A fixed cleat on either side of the mast box. With a hinged mast gate dropping onto a halving joint on one end, with a pin for security fitting into a hole in the halving of the fixed cleat.

[timber_cruiser]

Neil, You have already received great advice above. The only thing I would add is that if you do decide to use a square mast step, make it with a slight taper on the sides, especially the aft face. This will facilitate tilting the mast aft as you lift it out.

I also drilled a drain hole in my mast step. Problem is that I did not do this until after I epoxied it into place, better to do it before you install.

My CY has a square main mast step (balanced lug) and a circular mizzen mast step. I never had an issue with the mizzen mast rotating.

I would also recommend installing a sheave in the main mast. The bee hole in Iain's plans create too much friction in my opinion.

[neil.henderson]

Neil, You have already received great advice above. The only thing I would add is that if you do decide to use a square mast step, make it with a slight taper on the sides, especially the aft face. This will facilitate tilting the mast aft as you lift it out.

I also drilled a drain hole in my mast step. Problem is that I did not do this until after I epoxied it into place, better to do it before you install.

My CY has a square main mast step (balanced lug) and a circular mizzen mast step. I never had an issue with the mizzen mast rotating.

I would also recommend installing a sheave in the main mast. The bee hole in Iain's plans create too much friction in my opinion.

Many thanks for the advice.

Regards Neil

[WI-Tom]

I do very little sailing, but built the bits for when I might get the time to put into really learning how. My 16 lb mast was at first stepped through the deck much like Tom's:



To me this was a disaster waiting to happen. Even when steady at the dock, stepping meant holding the mast very straight while lowering and aiming for the mating step on the sole. Any slip up in the angle stressed the deck...

Always interesting to compare experiences, Rick. The foot of my mast has a significant taper below the partner. I don't have to hold the mast anywhere near vertical to step it, not at first anyway. It's a pretty simple operation. Looks like your mast foot is not tapered much?

My partner has significantly less bury, too (maybe 13"?)--the shorter drop makes it easier to maintain alignment, I suspect.

Then, too, it seems a gate requires you to hold the mast in place with one hand while closing the gate with the other (which might or might not be simple to do one-handed?). No need for any one-handed operations with a fixed partner--once the mast is in, you're done and move on. It works pretty well for me without a gate--no plans to change it after 4 years and 1,000+ miles.

No chance of lowering the mast on board in any wind or swells.

I've been able to unstep my mast pretty comfortably at sea when I need to. It helps that I am able to lift it out of the partner while seated on the forward thwart. I do pay pretty close attention to not letting the foot stress the partner (which is through-bolted but a 13' lever says "So what?" to through-bolting). The photo below shows some pretty severe winds from last summer--I was a mile offshore in lots of winds and medium waves when I unstepped the mast to row back.

7.jpg

All in all, I think the mast gate is probably simpler and easier in operation. The fixed partner is undoubtedly simpler and easier to build. I also like the complete lack of hardware with the fixed partner--nothing to snag a line or bash a knee into.

A very good argument can be made that the mast gate is a better choice. A questionable argument (but one that will appeal to the lazy among us) can be made that "good enough" is acceptable if it involves less work initially.

Tom

[WI-Tom]

I think that you missed a trick.
A fixed cleat on either side of the mast box. With a hinged mast gate dropping onto a halving joint on one end, with a pin for security fitting into a hole in the halving of the fixed cleat.

Didn't miss it--decided against it, for reasons described in my reply to Rick. No doubt your way works very well, though.

Tom

[Peerie Maa]

Didn't miss it--decided against it, for reasons described in my reply to Rick. No doubt your way works very well, though.

Tom

Fairy Nuff.
My suggestion would have been easier to use than Peerie Maas mast gate that has served for half a century.
straps 026.jpg