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Thread: Republicans gunning for Medicare... again

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    Default Republicans gunning for Medicare... again

    Always find Krugmans analysis, short, pithy, and on the mark.

    Why Republican Politicians Still Hate Medicare
    Jan. 12, 2023








    The Republicans who now control the House will soon try to slash Social Security and Medicare. They plan to achieve this by holding the economy hostage, threatening to create a financial crisis by refusing to raise the federal debt ceiling. The interesting questions are why they want to do this, given that it appears politically suicidal, and how Democrats will respond.
    Before I get into the puzzles, let me start by pointing out that the plot against the social safety net isn’t a conspiracy theory. The general shape of the scheme has been widely reported for months. The arithmetic is also clear: It isn’t possible to achieve huge reductions in the budget deficit, while at the same time depriving the I.R.S. of the resources it needs to go after tax cheats, without deep cuts in popular social programs.
    And beyond all that, we now have it in black and white — well, blue on blue. CNN has obtained a screenshot of a slide presented at a closed-door Republican meeting on Tuesday. The first bullet point calls for balancing the budget within 10 years, which is mathematically impossible without deep cuts to Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid. The second calls for reforms to “mandatory spending” — which is budget-speak for those same programs. And the final point calls for refusing to raise the debt limit unless these demands are met.
    So the plan isn’t a mystery. I would add only that if Republicans try to assure currently retired Americans that their benefits wouldn’t be affected, this promise isn’t feasible — not if they’re serious about balancing the budget within a decade.



    But where is this determination to gut programs that are crucial to well over 100 million Americans coming from? These programs are, after all, extremely popular — even among Republican voters.
    It’s true that self-identified Republicans say that they are vehemently opposed to “socialism.” But when an Economist/YouGov poll asked them which programs they considered socialistic, none of the big-ticket items made the cut. Social Security? Not socialism. Medicare — which is, by the way, a single-payer national health insurance program, which we’re often told Americans would never accept — also isn’t socialism.

    Unfortunately, that poll didn’t ask about Medicaid, a program targeted at lower-income Americans that many Republicans consider a form of “welfare.” Even so, a Kaiser Family Foundation survey found far more Republicans approving of Medicaid than disapproving.
    One reason even Republicans support major social programs may be that G.O.P. support comes disproportionately from older voters — and most of America’s social spending goes to seniors. This is obviously true for Social Security and Medicare, which kick in primarily when you reach a minimum age. But it’s even true for Medicaid: Most of Medicaid’s beneficiaries are relatively young, but almost two-thirds of the spending goes to seniors and the disabled, many in nursing homes.
    The attitude of the Republican rank and file, then, seems to be that big government is bad — but when we get down to specifics, don’t cut you, don’t cut me, cut that fellow behind the tree. Which means that the priorities of the new House majority are wildly out of line with those of its own voters, let alone those of the electorate as a whole.




    And history says that attacks on the safety net come with a heavy political price. George W. Bush’s attempt to privatize Social Security in 2005 surely played a role in the Democratic takeover of Congress in 2006; Donald Trump’s attempt to kill Obamacare helped Nancy Pelosi regain the speakership in 2018.
    So where is the push to gut Social Security and Medicare coming from? Ronald Reagan left the White House 34 years ago. The modern G.O.P. seems much less animated by small-government ideology than by the desire to wage culture war. And there’s no necessary connection between culture war and right-wing economics. For example, France’s anti-immigrant National Rally has, in effect, staked out an economic position somewhat to the left of the Macron government.
    Put it this way: Advocating a welfare state for white people might well be politically effective. But in America, it’s a road not taken.
    Here’s what I think is going on: Even now many, perhaps most Republicans in Congress aren’t culture-war zealots. Instead, they’re careerists who depend, both for campaign contributions and for post-Congress career prospects, on the same billionaires who have supported right-wing economic ideology for decades. They won’t stand up to the crazies and conspiracy theorists, but their own agenda is still tax cuts for the rich and benefit cuts for the poor and middle class.
    And the culture warriors go along because they basically aren’t interested in policy substance.
    I’m not completely sure that this analysis is right. But all indications are that at some point this year the Biden administration will have to deal with a full-scale effort at economic blackmail, a threat to blow up the economy unless the safety net is shredded. And I worry that Democrats still aren’t taking that threat seriously enough.
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    Default Re: Republicans gunning for Medicare... again

    The Republicans who now control the House will soon try to slash Social Security and Medicare.
    But where is this determination to gut programs that are crucial to well over 100 million Americans coming from?
    the determination comes from a desire for short term profiteering
    they want the money that goes to social security to be invested in the financial markets, which will inevitably soar with such an influx, then will just as inevitably implode, requiring a govt bailout

    same same with medicare, they want that money funneled into an often fraudulent, poorly serviced, inefficient, profit driven insurance market

    they are truly douchebags
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

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    Default Re: Republicans gunning for Medicare... again

    Ayup.

    And Ayup.
    David G
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    Default Re: Republicans gunning for Medicare... again

    Damn. Didn't think PP would agree!

    So.... how to get voters to pay attention? Done properly, this gambit of theirs should draw/quarter the bastids.

    Personally, I freely share 'these aims' with all of my (republican, mostly) old pts on MC and SS. Ya oughta see the looks on their faces. Priceless.

    And *some* might say - 'that's no way to grow a practice'. And I would agree. Turns out, I'm not trying to. I'm in my 'semi-retirement' phase....
    There's a lot of things they didn't tell me when I signed on with this outfit....

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    Default Re: Republicans gunning for Medicare... again

    The more guns out there, the more Medicare is needed.
    "Banning books in spite of the 1st amendment, but refusing to regulate guns in spite of "well regulated militia' being in the 2nd amendment makes no sense. Can't think of anyone ever shot by a book

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    Default Re: Republicans gunning for Medicare... again

    Quote Originally Posted by George Jung View Post

    So.... how to get voters to pay attention? Done properly, this gambit of theirs should draw/quarter the bastids.
    i think voters have little patience these days for debt ceiling gambits
    and biden is absolutely the right man at the right time to call them on their bull****
    however, the reds will time this well so it coincides with the climax of the joe biden leaked secret documents to the ukrainians via his crackhead son hunter
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

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    Default Re: Republicans gunning for Medicare... again

    The civil war continues……..

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    Default

    More like Krugman gunning for Republicans…. Still.


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    Default Re: Republicans gunning for Medicare... again

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    the determination comes from a desire for short term profiteering... they want the money that goes to social security to be invested in the financial markets, which will inevitably soar with such an influx, then will just as inevitably implode, requiring a govt bailout... same with medicare, they want that money funneled into an often fraudulent, poorly serviced, inefficient, profit driven insurance market....
    Byron Donalds (R) two term member of Congress and brief nominee for the speakership gives the game away by focussing on the S&P's rise as a better performing vehicle for Social Security... although he denies favoring privatization while raising his expertise as a financial manager.

    Which begs the question "Why bring it up then??"

    He backs off the topic swiftly. The segment starts at about 6:30 into the 'interview/debate' here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tm7D6-KUWzY
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    Default Re: Republicans gunning for Medicare... again

    ^
    It would be a better solution but he is not for it. What a weasel.

    The GQP congress is aiming to harm the demographic that votes for them.
    .
    Last edited by Tom Montgomery; 01-13-2023 at 07:10 PM.
    "They have a lot of stupid people that vote in their primaries. They really do. I'm not really supposed to say that but it's an obvious fact. But when stupid people vote, you know who they nominate? Other stupid people." -- James Carville on the plethora of low-quality GQP candidates in the mid-term election.

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    Default Re: Republicans gunning for Medicare... again

    The debt ceiling is a dumb thing. Failing to raise it is a very bad idea that can have very bad consequences.

    That said, a debt always rising is also eventually going to have dire consequences.

    GOP argues it's a spending problem. I think tax cuts for the rich that GOP has passed over the last 4 decades are a large part of the problem.
    "Banning books in spite of the 1st amendment, but refusing to regulate guns in spite of "well regulated militia' being in the 2nd amendment makes no sense. Can't think of anyone ever shot by a book

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    Default Re: Republicans gunning for Medicare... again

    Quote Originally Posted by skuthorp View Post
    The civil war continues……..
    A current manifestation of the Civil War, and our failure as a nation to finish off the disease that spawned it, is most certainly a large chunk of what ails us today.

    The other is the Acton Dictum.

    The fact is, once again, the wealthy and powerful have managed to gain enough influence in the public policy realm to accelerate & multiply their mindless, traitorous, heedless, greed. And they are using wedge issues, culture wars, and such - most of which are based upon the racial divide - to convince a large cadre to vote against their own interests, and to join them in eroding our grand experiment in self-governance.
    Last edited by David G; 01-13-2023 at 09:22 PM.
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    Default Re: Republicans gunning for Medicare... again

    Fight against Medicare.

    Fight against Medicaid.

    Fight against a minimum wage.

    They don't want to give it away, and they don't want you to be able to pay for it, either.

    The irony is that if they get their way, they will still be reelected by the people who need it most.
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    Default Re: Republicans gunning for Medicare... again

    Quote Originally Posted by rbgarr View Post
    ... the S&P's rise as a better performing vehicle for Social Security... although he denies favoring privatization while raising his expertise as a financial manager.

    Which begs the question "Why bring it up then??"

    He backs off the topic swiftly.
    A large number of people look at Social Security as an example of unintended consequences.

    Few people were intended to live long enough to get benefits. That has not worked out so well. People are living longer and the benefits have moved a large number of the old out of poverty.

    Its investment limitations were intended to fund the government. Now that benefits are outrunning contributions, that will soon change.

    There were much better investment options. The S&P 500 would have been one. A sovereign wealth fund invested in almost anything that the federal government provides research finds for would be a second. But good returns were not the goal.
    Life is complex.

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    Default Re: Republicans gunning for Medicare... again

    Quote Originally Posted by John Smith View Post
    The more guns out there, the more Medicare is needed.
    Not so, John. According to the Department of Justice Bureau of Justice Statistics, people age 65 and over are least likely to be victims of violent crime: https://bjs.ojp.gov/content/pub/pdf/apvsvc.pdf
    Most people qualify for Medicare by reaching age 65, although some people with disabilities under 65 also receive Medicare. An increase in the number of firearms is unlikely to result in more Medicare funded care for gun crime victims.

    I think you mean Medicaid, for which eligibility is based on income. This article https://www.wesh.com/article/poor-pe...report/9143572
    reports on research that found poor people were more likely to be violent crime victims than people with higher incomes.

    So possibly more guns mean more Medicaid funded services will be needed. Relaxing restrictions on firearms while cutting funding for low income medical services could be seen as two facets of a GOP war on the poor.
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    Default Re: Republicans gunning for Medicare... again

    Some possible details of proposed Soc Sec privatization: advantages vs disadvantages

    https://www.google.com/search?q=what...t=gws-wiz-serp
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    Default Re: Republicans gunning for Medicare... again

    Quote Originally Posted by rbgarr View Post
    Some possible details of proposed Soc Sec privatization: advantages vs disadvantages

    https://www.google.com/search?q=what...t=gws-wiz-serp
    Stunning stupidity.
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    Default Re: Republicans gunning for Medicare... again

    https://www.nytimes.com/2023/01/14/h...ug-prices.html

    I can't C/P; used up my allotment of good will. But with this bill, the Govt. is required to negotiate prices on a number of medications, including insulin - and this progresses over several years. The 'problem'? The Republicans have already introduced a bill to rescind this benefit.

    Shocking, no?
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    Default Re: Republicans gunning for Medicare... again

    For all of you too young to be on Medicare, ask people you know who ARE on Medicare what they think. With luck and time, you'll be their age one day.
    "Banning books in spite of the 1st amendment, but refusing to regulate guns in spite of "well regulated militia' being in the 2nd amendment makes no sense. Can't think of anyone ever shot by a book

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    Default Re: Republicans gunning for Medicare... again

    Quote Originally Posted by John Smith View Post
    For all of you too young to be on Medicare, ask people you know who ARE on Medicare what they think. With luck and time, you'll be their age one day.
    I've mentioned here before - a remarkable percentage of the folks benefiting from MC and SS, seemingly don't 'make the connection'. Esp. when President Obama was in office, I had a lot of old folks - on these programs - spitting mad about 'the govt' being involved in their healthcare. Many, I suspect, for racist reasons.

    My response was 'oh, you don't like SS or MC?'

    Stunned look; 'what're you talking about? You keep your hands off of my MC/SS'.

    'Those are govt programs. That is 'govt'. insurance'.

    At which point, most walked out. No idea how they voted, going forward.
    There's a lot of things they didn't tell me when I signed on with this outfit....

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    Default Re: Republicans gunning for Medicare... again

    Back before I retired, we had a gold plated union organized health insurance. It covered essentially everything with minimal copay, usually around $30 as I recall. But it was expensive-800I think per month, and our employer paid the other half. Now I’m on Medicare, with Medicare advantage. which covers the same but with slightly different copays. The cost to me is 114 per month. Must be socialism cause the insurance company isn’t getting that extra 1900 per month.

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    Default Re: Republicans gunning for Medicare... again

    It would be a lot more straight forward to root out the corruption in our military-industrial-intelligence complex. Tilting at windmills but the right idea.

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    Default Re: Republicans gunning for Medicare... again

    Quote Originally Posted by John Smith View Post
    For all of you too young to be on Medicare, ask people you know who ARE on Medicare what they think. With luck and time, you'll be their age one day.
    My wife and I are old and on Medicare. We see a doctor once a year. More frequently than prior to Medicare.

    We pay more for Medicare. We yearn for our high deductible health insurance policy and our health savings account.

    But I am sure that those who chose their health insurance poorly have regrets.
    Life is complex.

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    Default Re: Republicans gunning for Medicare... again

    I am very happy with my Medicare. Wish everyone could be so lucky.

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    Default Re: Republicans gunning for Medicare... again

    Yup. Me, too. swmbo just (finally!) got hers approved.

    I've yet to meet anyone who would prefer rid of their MC, and back on commercial ins.
    There's a lot of things they didn't tell me when I signed on with this outfit....

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    Default Re: Republicans gunning for Medicare... again

    Quote Originally Posted by Too Little Time View Post
    My wife and I are old and on Medicare. We see a doctor once a year. More frequently than prior to Medicare.

    We pay more for Medicare. We yearn for our high deductible health insurance policy and our health savings account.

    But I am sure that those who chose their health insurance poorly have regrets.
    Eventually, I expect, you'll see doctors more often.
    "Banning books in spite of the 1st amendment, but refusing to regulate guns in spite of "well regulated militia' being in the 2nd amendment makes no sense. Can't think of anyone ever shot by a book

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    Default Re: Republicans gunning for Medicare... again

    Quote Originally Posted by George Jung View Post
    Yup. Me, too. swmbo just (finally!) got hers approved.

    I've yet to meet anyone who would prefer rid of their MC, and back on commercial ins.
    I'm in total agreement with this, George - For various reasons ( financial and otherwise ), I had to wait until I was actually on Medicare before I could have cataract surgery. It has proven to be well worth the wait.


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    Default Re: Republicans gunning for Medicare... again

    I have a SIL who is in the hospital following her 3rd stroke. Medicare is all she has. She does not have Medicaid and needs it badly.

    I don't like my SIL and I deeply resent the way she has treated her sister all her life. However, there must be some compassion in this country for those in need, who make poor choices, and are less successful than others. Medical care should not be available only to those successful enough to afford it.
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    Default Re: Republicans gunning for Medicare... again

    Didn't have any organized health care until I got to age 65. What a boon now.
    A society predicated on the assumption that everyone in it should want to get rich is not well situated to become either ethical or imaginative.

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    Default Re: Republicans gunning for Medicare... again

    I too am satisfied with Medicare. We both have traditional Medicare plus private "F" supplements. It is a nice feeling to be back to just getting health care and not thinking about paying for it. Yes the combination of the Part B Medicare premium and the F supplement premium comes to around $350 a month, but it is worth it to me. I have a variety of leukemia that has no cure so I need treatment every few years. My last treatment five years ago cost about $300K that was 100% covered. So I figure that if I never receive any medical treatment again I will be ahead. That never needing medical treatment again thing is a bit of a pipe dream since I have four specialist appointments this month and a minimum of five more before June.

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    Default Re: Republicans gunning for Medicare... again

    I'm not sure I know anyone who is not happy with Medicare, yet so many oppose universal healthcare, which would be Medicare for all.
    "Banning books in spite of the 1st amendment, but refusing to regulate guns in spite of "well regulated militia' being in the 2nd amendment makes no sense. Can't think of anyone ever shot by a book

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    Default Re: Republicans gunning for Medicare... again

    I am very pleased with Medicare plus a Plan F supplement. Friends have warned me to stay away from Medicare Advantage, which on its face would seem to save money, but in fact gives all the advantage to the private insurance companies.
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    Default Re: Republicans gunning for Medicare... again

    Quote Originally Posted by John Smith View Post
    Eventually, I expect, you'll see doctors more often.
    Quote Originally Posted by John Smith View Post
    I'm not sure I know anyone who is not happy with Medicare, yet so many oppose universal healthcare, which would be Medicare for all.
    I was expressing my unhappiness with Medicare. I do understand that those who made other choices in their working years might find Medicare a better choice.

    Before you promote Medicare for all, you might examine the deductibles one needs to pay - the out of pocket amounts are unlimited, and you might examine what the premiums for those not yet retired might need to be. The Medicare portion of FICA subsides the "low" premiums of Medicare in retirement.
    Life is complex.

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    Default Re: Republicans gunning for Medicare... again

    Quote Originally Posted by Too Little Time View Post
    I was expressing my unhappiness with Medicare. I do understand that those who made other choices in their working years might find Medicare a better choice.

    Before you promote Medicare for all, you might examine the deductibles one needs to pay - the out of pocket amounts are unlimited, and you might examine what the premiums for those not yet retired might need to be. The Medicare portion of FICA subsides the "low" premiums of Medicare in retirement.
    You might want to examine how healthcare in other countries works. How they pay less, cover everyone, and have better results.
    "Banning books in spite of the 1st amendment, but refusing to regulate guns in spite of "well regulated militia' being in the 2nd amendment makes no sense. Can't think of anyone ever shot by a book

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    Default Re: Republicans gunning for Medicare... again

    Quote Originally Posted by UCanoe_2 View Post
    I am very pleased with Medicare plus a Plan F supplement. Friends have warned me to stay away from Medicare Advantage, which on its face would seem to save money, but in fact gives all the advantage to the private insurance companies.
    one of my pet peeves (yes, I do have others... a veritable menagerie) is that the insurance companies selling the 'advantage' plans, are allowed to call them Medicare Advantage. Most folks do not realize - they are giving up their Medicare to that company, in exchange for private health insurance, generally one with less benefits.
    There's a lot of things they didn't tell me when I signed on with this outfit....

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