liberal over-reach

[robm]

Natural gas is odorless:

Yes, but what about combustion products? The science behind this effort is to remove NOx due to combustion from the air we breathe in our homes. NOx are odourless, but form acids when dissolved in water. It is not beyond the realm of possibility that some people are sensitive to these compounds (asthma?) and can detect them.

Then, there are the mercaptans, which are sulphur compounds. Perhaps some people are more sensitive to the tiny quantities of SO2 produced by their combustion?

[Joe (SoCal)]

Pretty much like you'd flambeé tableside:

https://www.bonappetit.com/story/flambe-guide

BWAAAAHAAAA HAAAA can I take you behind the line in any NYC restaurant while you look for your lighter LOL That would crack me up

[skuthorp]

Ive cooked on a friends induction top, not a fan.

[Jack Loudon]

There was a time (100 yrs ago?) when everybody cooked on wood or coal. I'm sure the cooks of the time scoffed at the newfangled gas stoves. Life moves on, and maybe gas stoves are nearing their end. I'm sure that great cooks will adapt and do fine with induction or whatever else comes along.

I've had gas stoves but currently have electric and am fine with it. Water boils faster and no soot on the pan bottoms. Also with no gas in the house no CO monitors needed.

I did all my cooking on a wood stove for a few years and made some memorable meals. Heat buildup/cooldown is even slower than electric so you get used to moving pans on and off the burner on both wood and electric to control temperature. I imagine the AGA stoves are similar.

[Garret]

You cook things that can stay warm without becoming overcooked, or wich can heat unsupervised. That way all you have to do is fetch them. What you don't do is serve something that has to be done à la minute, unless you actually desire to not participate in the socializing.

Spending family time in the kitchen is absolutely fine, as I said, even with guests if the purpose of the gathering is actually preparing food together. Many people do this, with family and friends, and some even wash the dishes afterwards. Hell, I've even participated to gatherings where the main activity was to slaughter the pig or sheep and completely butcher and prepare it by sunset. It involved a lot of food, drink and socializing, and I had a great time, just like I had at the pizza making parties.

Thank you for the explanation. Probably not my style, but glad it works for you. Vive la differance!

[Sandlapper]

Started with a wood stove in the 1930's with its issues good and bad.

Went to a kerosene stove in WW2 when a wood stove was not practical at the time. A poor stove with few positive attributes.

What followed was a series of electric coil stoves with widely varying attributes for the next 40 years. They were slower to heat and harder to regulate but were generally satisfactory.

Wife wanted a gas stove top with an electric oven about 20 years ago and loves it. I hate the thing which tries to burn me and is often successful. Clean up is needed and often necessary as well as messy and difficult. I'm looking at a countertop induction unit for me as the ones used in holiday rentals have been good for my tastes. They seem to solve the dislikes of all the others.

Slow cookers, pressure and air fryers have been sparingly used.

I cook more than the average old curmudgeon with varying success but hate complicated dishes with hard to get stuff that is not in the cabinet.

I would support getting rid of the gas stove for me but like it when a hurricane turns off the electricity from time to time.

These made up hates attributed to liberals show a lack of research or a lazy attitude.

[LeeG]

I'd argue that even this is an overstatement.
No federal government entity with the power to impose any such ban is discussing one. Some city and state governments have taken steps in this direction but no outright bans even on that scale.
The only thing happening on a national level is that some consumer protection agencies are talking about the growing body of scientific evidence of the role that gas cooking plays in indoor air quality.

The rest is just monkeys flinging feces.

we do have lots of monkeys. Remember the bs about lighting regulations and phasing out of incandescents?

I’d be more concerned about the leaks, flared and unflared gas from wells to end user than interior pollution of gas ranges.

[sonofswen]

How Bad Is It Really to Use a Gas Stove

https://www.livestrong.com/article/1...d6c1cd8497a09d

[David G]

Another article -- https://www.nytimes.com/2023/01/14/u...l_NfdovPt8awRs

[TomF]

I'm surprised nobody's discussing biogas, produced as a renewable from anaerobic digestion of anything organic- including sewage - one wants to flow through the digester. It's been an "appropriate technology" thing for years, and it's even simpler at scale.

One must filter out sulphur dioxide and carbon dioxide, but the rest? Essentially similar mix of burnables as natural gas.

Similarly, folks' concern about nitrous products of combustion from natural gas now could be addressed by running the raw gas through additional scrubbers.

[George Jung]

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/01/14/u...ernatives.html

https://www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/b...oven-or-dryer/

As others have pointed out - lots of such articles 'suddenly' in the news. There's a push going on; I imagine, in concert with moving from combustibles, to electric.

Why switch from gas to electric and induction cooking?

There are many good reasons to ditch your gas cooking appliances for electric models, specifically those that heat with induction. Gas stoves have been shown to be potentially risky even with ventilation, in part because they emit benzene and methane. The Consumer Product Safety Commission reported it is considering new regulations on gas stoves as concerns grow around their health risks, specifically links to childhood asthma.
Induction also outperforms gas when it comes to energy efficiency: A representative from Energy Star, the energy-efficiency certification program run by the Environmental Protection Agency, told us that induction cooktops are the most efficient at transferring heat to your food, running at about 85% efficiency. Traditional radiant electric cooktops are next (75% to 80% efficiency), while gas ranges are only 32% efficient.
Our own research and testing shows that induction cooktops or stoves with an induction cooktop are safer to cook with than gas or electric stoves. It also shows that they are much better and easier to cook on than traditional electric versions, and that they are as flexible to cook on as gas stoves—if not better in some applications. (We plan to test even more induction cooking appliances soon.) For this reason, we’ve concluded that our previous guidance to hang on to your gas stove for as long as it works is no longer the best advice, even if you just bought it. If you qualify for a rebate, which are described in detail below, it makes sense to begin the switch to electric models—especially induction, if possible—as soon as the rebate programs are available and you can afford the additional costs.
One reason induction cooking has taken so long to catch on with those who are accustomed to using gas is that it doesn’t emit heat or flames. Cooking over a smooth glass surface is just not the same as cranking up the gas to char a pepper or to heat a cast-iron pan until it’s smoking hot. There is a learning curve to induction, though it’s less difficult than you might expect. If you’re curious about induction but not ready to commit to a full-size induction cooktop, consider buying a portable induction cooktop, which costs less than $100 and will give you a feel for cooking on such appliances.
Rewiring America’s Matusiak said his own parents recently made the switch from gas to induction and that they were skeptical of how well it would work. “And as soon as they got it, they said, ‘Why didn’t we get this years ago? Because it’s so much better.’”
But you probably shouldn't rush to buy anything right now. Unless your range or oven just broke, wait until the rebates (which are state-run) become available later this year. What should you do to prepare? Follow these four steps, which will help you maximize your savings when it’s time to buy.

[DMillet]

In my experience a lot of the people that insist on gas for cooking tend not to be the same people that have to clean up the stove after dinner every night. I'll take electric or induction anytime over that mess. Yes, cooking on induction involves a learning curve but once you've acquired the necessary skill, there are multiple reasons to prefer it over any other option, not the least of which is efficiency. They're a lot cheaper both to buy and use over the long term.

[George Jung]

And with the rebates coming, potentially even moreso.

Were I replacing, I'd highly consider it. Esp. since I've also read - there's consideration for 'banning' gas, for new installations.

That'd make an easy choice.

[LeeG]

In my experience a lot of the people that insist on gas for cooking tend not to be the same people that have to clean up the stove after dinner every night. I'll take electric or induction anytime over that mess. Yes, cooking on induction involves a learning curve but once you've acquired the necessary skill, there are multiple reasons to prefer it over any other option, not the least of which is efficiency. They're a lot cheaper both to buy and use over the long term.

I have a two burner propane stovetop. It gets cleaned at least twice a year.

[Jim Bow]

[Nicholas Carey]

Why switch from gas to electric and induction cooking?

Our own research and testing . . . shows that [induction cooktops] are . . . as flexible to cook on as gas stoves—if not better in some applications.

I wouldn't say induction is as flexible as gas. It's maybe 90% of what a good gas cooktop can do. The one thing it does better -- much better -- is simmer. Never tried, but I bet I could make a hollandaise sauce in a saucepan directly on the induction burner without turning it into lemony scrambled eggs.

[DMillet]

I have a two burner propane stovetop. It gets cleaned at least twice a year.

That might be the one kind of gas stovetop that's cheaper than an induction cooktop. I've got both in my van. I think I paid around $40 for the propane stove whereas the two burner induction cooktop cost about $120. It took me awhile to figure out how to properly cook eggs on the induction cooktop but now that I've figured it out, I only break out the propane stove when I run low on battery power.

[robm]

Similarly, folks' concern about nitrous products of combustion from natural gas now could be addressed by running the raw gas through additional scrubbers.

The problem is the NOx are produced as a product of combustion, forming from the nitrogen in the air. The fuel is clean, it is the oxidizer that is contaminated.

[Jimmy W]

I'm surprised nobody's discussing biogas, produced as a renewable from anaerobic digestion of anything organic- including sewage - one wants to flow through the digester. It's been an "appropriate technology" thing for years, and it's even simpler at scale.

One must filter out sulphur dioxide and carbon dioxide, but the rest? Essentially similar mix of burnables as natural gas.

Similarly, folks' concern about nitrous products of combustion from natural gas now could be addressed by running the raw gas through additional scrubbers.

Earth's air is about 78% nitrogen, as long as the stove is burning air, you are probably going to get some nitrous products. you could run it from an oxygen bottle for the oxidizer.

edit: I see Robm was quicker.

[stromborg]

That is the single biggest fail with induction. Only the bottom of the pan gets heated. The sides only heat via conduction, and so are significantly cooler than the bottom. That makes things like scrambled eggs, omelette, and the like problematic.

How is that different than gas? I mostly use cast iron (either seasoned or enameled like Le Creuset) on my gas range and it takes quite some time for the whole pan to get hot.

I didn't even think about going electric when i was outfitting our kitchen 3 years ago, the old house had a propane range and fireplace, I just straight across replaced the old stuff. Hindsight being what it is I should have at least gone for the electric oven with gas stovetop, when the new range craps out I'll certainly look at induction. My electrical panel is in the basement/crawlspace with a clean path to run the wiring so i could do it all myself with no demolition required.

[Corvida]

My bet is they set higher standards for ventilation on gas stoves, no internal venting etc. And call it a day. That alone will end most new gas stove installs. The price tag to plumb a duct, and put a hole in the roof, even while building it, will be enough to kill the industry. Which will leave a few boutique brands or models still existing, which will make those last few ever crazier high priced, and that's the end of the industry.

[Rich Jones]

On the plus side for electric stoves, I've never heard of one leaking and causing the house to blow up.
Just sayin'.
It is very rare, but we have a friend whose brother was critically injured when his entire house blew up from a gas leak. Brain damaged and never really recovered.

[Nicholas Carey]

How is that different than gas? I mostly use cast iron (either seasoned or enameled like Le Creuset) on my gas range and it takes quite some time for the whole pan to get hot.

A good gas stove, the flame licks up around the pan and heats the sides. On an induction stove, only the bottom gets heated.

It's not about how long it takes for the entire pan to get hot, it's the fact that the sides of the pot are significantly cooler than the bottom. More a problem for something like an omelette pan than a Dutch oven, but with our induction range, a couple of minutes on high and the bottom will turn butter or anything else into fat in a heartbeat, but the sides of the pan? Well, they'll warm things up.

[TomF]

The problem is the NOx are produced as a product of combustion, forming from the nitrogen in the air. The fuel is clean, it is the oxidizer that is contaminated.

Makes perfect sense, thx. Of course!

[Brian Palmer]

https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acs.est.1c04707

Natural gas stoves in >40 million U.S. residences release methane (CH4)─a potent greenhouse gas─through post-meter leaks and incomplete combustion. We quantified methane released in 53 homes during all phases of stove use: steady-state-off (appliance not in use), steady-state-on (during combustion), and transitory periods of ignition and extinguishment. We estimated that natural gas stoves emit 0.8–1.3% of the gas they use as unburned methane and that total U.S. stove emissions are 28.1 [95% confidence interval: 18.5, 41.2] Gg CH4 year–1. More than three-quarters of methane emissions we measured originated during steady-state-off. Using a 20-year timeframe for methane, annual methane emissions from all gas stoves in U.S. homes have a climate impact comparable to the annual carbon dioxide emissions of 500,000 cars. In addition to methane emissions, co-emitted health-damaging air pollutants such as nitrogen oxides (NOx) are released into home air and can trigger respiratory diseases. In 32 homes, we measured NOx (NO and NO2) emissions and found them to be linearly related to the amount of natural gas burned (r2 = 0.76; p ≪ 0.01). Emissions averaged 21.7 [20.5, 22.9] ng NOx J–1, comprised of 7.8 [7.1, 8.4] ng NO2 J–1 and 14.0 [12.8, 15.1] ng NO J–1. Our data suggest that families who don’t use their range hoods or who have poor ventilation can surpass the 1-hour national standard of NO2 (100 ppb) within a few minutes of stove usage, particularly in smaller kitchens.

[john welsford]

My daughter had Asthma when she lived in her mothers home with an electric stove, now she's been living in places with Gas stoves and no Asthma. Go figure

OH and she takes after her dad and knows how to cook and properly deglaze a pan

Any stove, gas in particular but electric as well, should be properly ventilated. I suspect that a lot of poorer households dont have this feature.
I note too that the gas bottle fueled heaters, the portable ones which are not connected to a flue, have been illegal here for some time, they're a serious health hazard, and again they were popular among the poverty stricken who could not afford to install permanently fitted heating.
Another reason that the less affluent have worse health outcomes.

John Welsford

[David G]

Any stove, gas in particular but electric as well, should be properly ventilated. I suspect that a lot of poorer households dont have this feature.
I note too that the gas bottle fueled heaters, the portable ones which are not connected to a flue, have been illegal here for some time, they're a serious health hazard, and again they were popular among the poverty stricken who could not afford to install permanently fitted heating.
Another reason that the less affluent have worse health outcomes.

John Welsford

Every day, nearly every way, it's mighty expensive to be poor!!

[Joe (SoCal)]

I'm still never gonna cook on induction, nor is any restaurant. Hell I don't even like sous vide cooking. I'm a flame chef.

[Breakaway]

Never is a very long time.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Joe (SoCal)]

Never is a very long time.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

At 58 never gets shorter and shorter

[David G]

I'm still never gonna cook on induction, nor is any restaurant. Hell I don't even like sous vide cooking. I'm a flame chef.

You can cook as you wish. I love to see how much you enjoy it.

But do quit lying about restaurants. Plenty of them already use induction cooktops, and likely that % will increase as time goes on. I've seen them in food carts, popup restaurants, and remote cookeries. People here have already pointed out some Big Name chefs who have switched.

You're not gonna convince anyone thru being loud and bombastic. Try facts & data, eh?

Here's another example: Neil Perry, and award-winning Aussie chef who has started a string of top restaurants -- https://cookeryspace.com/do-professi...tion-cooktops/

Leave the bs to the RWW's

[Joe (SoCal)]

Heh. Who resembles that.

At least I admit it and own it

[Joe (SoCal)]

You can cook as you wish. I love to see how much you enjoy it.

But do quit lying about restaurants. Plenty of them already use induction cooktops, and likely that % will increase as time goes on. I've seen them in food carts, popup restaurants, and remote cookeries. People here have already pointed out some Big Name chefs who have switched.

You're not gonna convince anyone thru being loud and bombastic. Try facts & data, eh?

Here's another example: Neil Perry, and award-winning Aussie chef who has started a string of top restaurants -- https://cookeryspace.com/do-professi...tion-cooktops/

Leave the bs to the RWW's

1 million-plus restaurant locations in the US employing 15.6 million workers. This 2021, the number of chain restaurants in the US is at 101,811. Many of these, including independent restaurants, comprise more than 1 million restaurant locations in the country.

How many do you think have induction ranges ?

[Joe (SoCal)]

FWIW I cooked, reluctantly, on induction ranges in in Italy



I even managed to cook eggs



And I HATED every minute of it. It literally took me almost an hour to figure out how it worked, and to use MUCH MUCH lower setting.

[Jimmy W]

How many do you think have induction ranges ?

Sizzling plates of fajitas travel many times a day from kitchen to dining room at each of the over 1,500 Chili’s restaurants. To accommodate that volume, management at the Dallas-based chain wanted to find a quicker, simpler and safer way for staff to execute this signature item.
They found their solution in a plug-in induction unit that heats a fajita plate and “sizzle sauce” (marinade) to 500 F in 70 seconds. Previously, the pan plates were lined up in the charbroiler where it took 40 minutes to an hour for them to reach 550 F to 600 F, says Homero Ortegon, Chili’s vice president of strategic innovation. Once hot, the kitchen staff assembled the fajita and sauce and passed the burning hot plate to servers for table delivery.

The switch to induction allows the staff to add the sauce to a pan plate that’s at room temperature—before it’s heated. “This is a safer way to execute in our restaurants, and it’s much faster,” Ortegon says, adding that the unit has three additional settings ranging from 20 to 90 seconds. “Later, if we want [to use the method for] sizzling desserts, we have that flexibility in the controls.”

Since no element in the induction cooktop or range gets hot, the equipment doesn’t contribute to overheating the kitchen. With induction cooking, 84 percent or more of the electrical energy generated gets used to cook. In gas cooking, only 40 percent of the energy is transferred to the cooking vessel and the remainder radiates into the kitchen. Plus, the induction unit remains cool to the touch when the prescribed pan is removed, thus avoiding burns. These features can contribute to lower energy and insurance costs and fewer workers’ compensation claims for operators.

The 300-unit, Boston-based Au Bon Pain operates a few locations in hospitals where it uses induction equipment to save on construction costs in the leased spaces. There are drop-in warmers built into self-serve kiosks to keep ingredients warm and countertop induction ranges to prepare hot foods, such as rice bowls, says Roger LaRochelle, director of construction purchasing for Au Bon Pain. “Structurally with induction, we don’t have to do anything,” he says. “We don’t have to modify the HVAC, and we don’t need a fire-suppression system. The heat is created in the cooking vessel, so we don’t have to vent that equipment.”

https://www.restaurantbusinessonline.../way-induction