Last of the New Jersey pound boats.

[nedL]

Might be of some interest?…
A few of you may know what a pound boat is, what the New Jersey pound net fishery was, and how vitally important an industry it was for almost 150 years.
I just acquired this bit of history, a 20 foot, true pound boat that worked off the beaches, attributed to being built in 1913. She was built with an inboard engine (long ago removed.)
She has been in the collections of two museums since 1963 (Mystic Seaport 1963-1986, Philadelphia Independence Seaport Museum 1986- last month) . Just recently deaccessioned, I was able to acquire her at auction.
My intent now is to transition (donate) her to the state of New Jersey for long term preservation, where she will join a hidden collection of about a dozen other historically significant boats.

just thought there might be some here interested in New Jersey’s maritime history.

[nedL]

She was built during the end of the transitional period from oars to engines. Originally built with both, she seems never to have had a rudder, so the engine would have been simply “to make her go”, and steering provided by dragging one oar or the other.
Her interior sole is not at all original, and would have been added for display purposes long ago. Originally she had a low cockpit sole aft, then decked over almost up to the gunwales where the engine was (bulkheads fore & aft of the engine), and completely open forward of the engine up to the foreword bulkhead.

she is built with the classic New Jersey rolled garboard keel and broad sharply raked transom.

[nedL]

She is now waiting on a decision as to if I should replicate her interior layout on maybe just one side, and leave the other side as it stands. This would allow future parties to understand her original layout, but not at all be confused about what is new material and what is original material. Once that is decided upon and completed she will join the eleven other hidden boats.

[Breakaway]

VERY cool, Ned! What " shoulders" she has!

What is a "hidden" collection. Why does the state not allow public to view?


Kevin

[nedL]

I posted this in another place to help explain the situation.
……..The “collection” is sort of an unplanned impromptu collection. The boats were mostly on display publicly 40+ years ago. It was sort of a hodge podge collection that was not very well presented. The state completely reworked (& improved) the whole historical display at the location and removed all the boats. The boats were all put in “storage” and sort of forgotten over the years. It took me quite a few years with chasing down a number of false trails to finally figure out where they went and were being stored. It then took me a good number of years to gain access to them to photograph them.

I was always disappointed that they just disappeared from public access and were forgotten. (My personal take is that the State has basically completely turned its back on, and has completely forgotten its maritime history.) That said, I have also come to realize that this “out of sight – out of mind” situation may well be responsible for the continued preservation of these boats. Where they are currently being stored is not competing with anything else for the space, there is effectively no “maintenance” cost for their location and they are known to a few individuals.

They are also not subject to the whims of a “museum” sort of situation where they may be subject to review, competing for valuable storage resources and subject to the whims of a board of directors that may re-evaluate the contents of a collection (as has already happened twice with this pound boat, and one other I purchased too).

The collection has literally been untouched for about 40 years. Part of what I hope to be getting involved with in donating this boat (and probably others in my collection) is that we are developing a plan to ensure their continued preservation. The plan is to build a rack system to properly hold and support all the boats, then I will (hopefully) work to document each boat individually so their stories and history can be preserved and conveyed to future generations. The intend being that by conveying the history of each boat and the significance of the collection it can additionally insulate them from future poor decisions.

*************

Today, the state has no location, venue or setting in which it would be logical to display the boats.

[nedL]

This is a bit of the life these boats lead….

[Breakaway]

I posted this in another place to help explain the situation.
……..The “collection” is sort of an unplanned impromptu collection. The boats were mostly on display publicly 40+ years ago. It was sort of a hodge podge collection that was not very well presented. The state completely reworked (& improved) the whole historical display at the location and removed all the boats. The boats were all put in “storage” and sort of forgotten over the years. It took me quite a few years with chasing down a number of false trails to finally figure out where they went and were being stored. It then took me a good number of years to gain access to them to photograph them.

I was always disappointed that they just disappeared from public access and were forgotten. (My personal take is that the State has basically completely turned its back on, and has completely forgotten its maritime history.) That said, I have also come to realize that this “out of sight – out of mind” situation may well be responsible for the continued preservation of these boats. Where they are currently being stored is not competing with anything else for the space, there is effectively no “maintenance” cost for their location and they are known to a few individuals.

They are also not subject to the whims of a “museum” sort of situation where they may be subject to review, competing for valuable storage resources and subject to the whims of a board of directors that may re-evaluate the contents of a collection (as has already happened twice with this pound boat, and one other I purchased too).

The collection has literally been untouched for about 40 years. Part of what I hope to be getting involved with in donating this boat (and probably others in my collection) is that we are developing a plan to ensure their continued preservation. The plan is to build a rack system to properly hold and support all the boats, then I will (hopefully) work to document each boat individually so their stories and history can be preserved and conveyed to future generations. The intend being that by conveying the history of each boat and the significance of the collection it can additionally insulate them from future poor decisions.

Very interesting. And, good on you, sir.

Kevin

[timo4352]

Nice save Ned.
And thank you for going to the efforts and expense to save her.

Getting the boats out where they can be viewed and enjoyed would be nice, but probably not top on their list of priorities.
Let us know how it ends up.

[Thad]

Thanks, Ned! History is important.

[Bill Perkins]

Are we seeing beach rollers rotating in a fixed metal cage rather than just rolling along with the boat ?

[nedL]

Are we seeing beach rollers rotating in a fixed metal cage rather than just rolling along with the boat ?

no cages, just big pine rollers. The boats hit the beach, long wooden planks were laid down on the sand in front of the boat, then as the boat was pulled forward another roller was put under the stem, etc.

The pound boats reached 42 feet on some beaches, about 32 feet was average in the later years. The last of the pound boats were working off the beaches in the early 1960’s.

[Bruce Keefauver]

Thanks Ned! Good on you. It would be nice to have your collection scanned and or photographed (for3D modeling) by some knowledgeable person when the tarps are off.

[nedL]

Thanks Ned! Good on you. It would be nice to have your collection scanned and or photographed (for3D modeling) by some knowledgeable person when the tarps are off.

I would love to be able to 3D scan this boat, and the others in the collection too.


This is how the boat was originally set up.

[Bruce Keefauver]

Ned, do you know which beach/area those pound boats were last working in the 60's? And for extra credit were they ever used on Long Island? (Seems like they would have been a good match.)

[nedL]

Ned, do you know which beach/area those pound boats were last working in the 60's? And for extra credit were they ever used on Long Island? (Seems like they would have been a good match.)

The last of the pound boats worked off of Monmouth Beach, almost at the Sea Bright boarder. I believe it was 1963 or ‘64. Our parents took my brother, sister and myself to see them. All I remember is a vague image of an old yellow bulldozer used to pull the boats up the beach.

There were pound nets set from Long Island, but I don’t know their history or workings. Pound nets were introduced into Sandy Hook bay in New Jersey from Long Island in 1855.

[Bruce Keefauver]

Thanks again Ned. I don't remember them at all but was in the area back then. Likely my Grandparents and Mom would have seen them, though likely without much interest or understanding. I do remember seeing the skiffs though at the lifeguard stations including not all that long ago although they didn't seem to be using them much. My last sighting though was one being rowed (with spirit!) off Asbury Park on a brisk but sunny day in late November, maybe 10 years ago, just beyond and parallel to the surf line. A fond memory.

[Woxbox]

Good stuff. I have visited the Tuckerton Seaport Museum in N.J., which has a big interest in preserving the state's maritime history. But it does appear they don't have the funds they need. A good number of boats that should be under cover are left out in the weather. Glad to hear that you're doing something under the radar.

[nedL]

Thanks again Ned. I don't remember them at all but was in the area back then. Likely my Grandparents and Mom would have seen them, though likely without much interest or understanding. I do remember seeing the skiffs though at the lifeguard stations including not all that long ago although they didn't seem to be using them much. My last sighting though was one being rowed (with spirit!) off Asbury Park on a brisk but sunny day in late November, maybe 10 years ago, just beyond and parallel to the surf line. A fond memory.

…. I also have two of the 16 ft surf boats used by lifeguards on the beaches. One spent her life on the beaches of spring lake.

[nedL]

Good stuff. I have visited the Tuckerton Seaport Museum in N.J., which has a big interest in preserving the state's maritime history. But it does appear they don't have the funds they need. A good number of boats that should be under cover are left out in the weather. Glad to hear that you're doing something under the radar.

I had given Tuckerton Seaport some brief consideration (nice place), but I am quite aware of what you observed (tight of funds and some really nice skiffs that need better conditions).
The situation I have selected is very much as you said, “under the radar”. This may well bode best for their long term existence.
I am also looking forward to, and am a bit excited about the idea of helping to document the whole collection.

[joncrane]

There was a pound fishery off of Pt Pleasant in the late 50's and another a mile or so south on the Bay Head/ Point Pleasant off Beacon Beach. There were also a couple of larger motorized pound boats on the hard next to the Clam Plant on Channel Drive up to the mid 60's. When I was a youngster we watched the horses pull the pound boats up on the shore in Ocean Beach north of Lavelette. I remember the boats would come in the inlet lashed two and sometimes three abreast to unload at Carlson's Fishery in Pt Pleasant. The abandoned poles were a mess and punctured a few planks on private boats when they broke off leaving a vertical pole anchored to the bottom a few feet below the waves.
Nice to see a picture of Pappy Seaman's work. Jon Crane
Rochester Mich.
Son of Horace Crane, Boatbuilder, Point Pleasant Beach

[johngsandusky]

Welcome aboard Jon, thanks for adding your first hand account.

[Dan McCosh]

There was a pound fishery off of Pt Pleasant in the late 50's and another a mile or so south on the Bay Head/ Point Pleasant off Beacon Beach. There were also a couple of larger motorized pound boats on the hard next to the Clam Plant on Channel Drive up to the mid 60's. When I was a youngster we watched the horses pull the pound boats up on the shore in Ocean Beach north of Lavelette. I remember the boats would come in the inlet lashed two and sometimes three abreast to unload at Carlson's Fishery in Pt Pleasant. The abandoned poles were a mess and punctured a few planks on private boats when they broke off leaving a vertical pole anchored to the bottom a few feet below the waves.
Nice to see a picture of Pappy Seaman's work. Jon Crane
Rochester Mich.
Son of Horace Crane, Boatbuilder, Point Pleasant Beach

SWMBO also remembers the horses pulling the boats up the beach on the Jersey shore when she was a kid. They also used tractors, she says, but mainly she liked the horses. The early small engines were installed to let the boats use the inlets to unload, and the engines paralleled the early gas engine cars, including the Gray Marine engines, used in both cars and boats. The hull design inspired engine-driven pleasure boats such as the Jersey Sea Skiff.

[nedL]

There was a pound fishery off of Pt Pleasant in the late 50's and another a mile or so south on the Bay Head/ Point Pleasant off Beacon Beach. There were also a couple of larger motorized pound boats on the hard next to the Clam Plant on Channel Drive up to the mid 60's. When I was a youngster we watched the horses pull the pound boats up on the shore in Ocean Beach north of Lavelette. I remember the boats would come in the inlet lashed two and sometimes three abreast to unload at Carlson's Fishery in Pt Pleasant. The abandoned poles were a mess and punctured a few planks on private boats when they broke off leaving a vertical pole anchored to the bottom a few feet below the waves.
Nice to see a picture of Pappy Seaman's work. Jon Crane
Rochester Mich.
Son of Horace Crane, Boatbuilder, Point Pleasant Beach

Yes, ... Thank you for the first hand account!! I think Carlson's had some pound nets of their own that they tended (We packed out of there when I worked scalloping).
It seems the pound net industry vanished in reverse order in which is started. Phasing out in the southern part of the state first, with the last working offshore pound nets being off Monmouth Beach (where they first started offshore). There are still occasional pound nets in Sandy Hook bay, where they first started in 1855.

I have all sorts of historical documentation about the stakes being a problem when not pulled at the end of the season (a requirement). There were boats up into the 50's & 60's that ran up on them. It wouldn't surprise me if there were still some stakes sticking up out of the sea floor in places.

[Peerie Maa]

How die the pound nets work?
Anything like the Scottish Stake nets?

[Bill Perkins]

Ned, do you know which beach/area those pound boats were last working in the 60's? And for extra credit were they ever used on Long Island? (Seems like they would have been a good match.)

I remember seeeing them on the Eastern end of long Island as a kid when my family was cruiseing that area .My last visit was on my brothers boat about 35 years ago .There were nets set off Orient Beach State Park ,I think it was.

[Dan McCosh]

Somewhere around here I have a book on boats of the Jersey shore, which talks about stuff like pound boats, sneakboxes, etc. The story was that the Catholic immigrants in the late 19th century created a big demand for fish on Fridays, which helped make the local fishing industry boom. The nets were relatively easy to tend, but bringing the fish in through the surf could be pretty rough. The inlets are wide spread, and tough for a small boat with oars. The boats had to handle a big load dropped on the sandy bottom, and were stout and clinker-planked. Not a bad start for the design of a seaworthy small boat for any use.

[Bruce Keefauver]

The rail connection to NYC (Bay Head and North) helped the market too.
Ned, it is very likely that I have seen your Spring Lake boat in service. I seem to remember each guard stand had one on the beach or sometimes out beyond the breakers watching for humans or other large swimmers. They must have had at least 4+ not counting the boats owned by the big hotels. Probably built by Hankins. Regret not stopping by his shop back in the day.

[joncrane]

The rail connection to NYC (Bay Head and North) helped the market too.
Ned, it is very likely that I have seen your Spring Lake boat in service. I seem to remember each guard stand had one on the beach or sometimes out beyond the breakers watching for humans or other large swimmers. They must have had at least 4+ not counting the boats owned by the big hotels. Probably built by Hankins. Regret not stopping by his shop back in the day.

Hankins built a lot of the lifeguard skiffs. Horace Crane built the lifeguard skiffs for Manasquan and Havens and Bradshaw Beaches in Pt Pleasant. I bucked up a lot of rivets. Dad's boats had distinctive Butt Blocks planed on a bevel on all four sides. Also his skiffs often featured a hepplewhite curve in some visible place, ie seat support, cubby door etc.

Your inquiry about how the pound nets worked was properly depicted in the drawing a few postings back. The fish swim parallel to the shore and when they come to an obstuction (sand bar,jetty, or net) they turn and swim toward deeper water. They then swim parallel to the net , through a couple of boxes and into the final box where they are literally baled out of the water. Many of the nets had wings to guide the fish along the net that was perpendicular to the the shoreline. Very efficient and I always heard that the American Indians developed the pound fishing technique, but I cannot say that is certain.
Jon Crane

[Peerie Maa]

Your inquiry about how the pound nets worked was properly depicted in the drawing a few postings back. The fish swim parallel to the shore and when they come to an obstuction (sand bar,jetty, or net) they turn and swim toward deeper water. They then swim parallel to the net , through a couple of boxes and into the final box where they are literally baled out of the water. Many of the nets had wings to guide the fish along the net that was perpendicular to the the shoreline. Very efficient and I always heard that the American Indians developed the pound fishing technique, but I cannot say that is certain.
Jon Crane

Thanks for that. The diagram is of the Scottish salmon fishery.
There was a more complex fish trap used in Morecambe Bay, called baulks, made of rock walls, woven wattle fences as well as netting. Unlike the Scottish ones pictured, they only fish on the ebb tide.
fig 43.jpg
They date from at least the Middle Ages.

[nedL]

Nick, Yes, the Scottish stake net you posted is very similar to a pound net. Pound nets though are not permitted to run up to the shore, they are completely in open water. They were at times 1/4 to a half mile out in the Atlantic.

Dan, The book you have would be “The Sea Bright Skiff and other Jersey shore boats” by Dr. Peter Guthorne. It is a good book. Of the subject as a whole I consider it a hood primer as there is a lot of information missing. ….. If I decide to actually do it I am planning on putting together a much more comprehensive one.

Bruce, All the beaches up and down the Jersey shore had similar surf boats. My Hankins skiff was built in 1986. I don’t know when it was taken out of survive. (It has been told to me that the Spring Lake guards were not good boat handlers and were pretty brutal on their boats (mine certainly shows it!).

Jon, It sounds like I would love to talk with you and pick your brain for information. Horace Crane is not a name I have come across. I would like to find out more about him and other builders. Certainly I know Van Sant. Hankins, Asay, Van Duyne, Robinson and Nau as builder of surf boats.

For anyone interested in the minutiae of pound nets these current regs for New Jersey covers them (sort of just interesting reading too).
https://casetext.com/regulation/new-...182-pound-nets


on the topic of the surf boats, I purchased this 16 ft surf boat at the same auction. I am quite confident it was built by Warren Nau in Morgan New Jersey. It too had made the rounds of museums. Mystic Seaport 1972-1986, Philadelphia Independence Seaport Museum 1986 to last December.

[Bruce Keefauver]

Thanks Jon for the clear description of the pound net layout. I found my copy of Peter Guthorn's book (The Sea Bright Skiff and other Shore Boats) and his description is a bit vague without a diagram.

[nedL]

this is what a pound net looks like out in the water.

[Peerie Maa]

this is what a pound net looks like out in the water.

Being 1/4 mile off and your need for pound net boats to gather the catch, do they ever ebb off?
I can see how you could drive the stakes and poles from a boat, but rigging the netting?

[Woxbox]

These are found all over the Chesapeake, and are hard to spot in the dark. In shallow water, the big boats can't get to them. I've had a couple of close calls. But I had no idea they used to be set up off the Jersey Shore. How did they withstand the wave action and traffic out there?

[nedL]

Being 1/4 mile off and your need for pound net boats to gather the catch, do they ever ebb off?
I can see how you could drive the stakes and poles from a boat, but rigging the netting?

Out in the ocean the stakes were typically 50-70 feet long and set 15 feet into the sea floor. Chains were hung on the nets to carry them to the bottom.