Sunbrella vs. Weathermax80

[Rod Tait]

Looking for review from actual owners who have used these products. Internet states Sunbrella is longer lasting, but Weathermax appears to be less expensive. Don't mind paying more for Sunbrella if it is truly a better product.

[rgthom]

I made a tent for my boat from Weathermax 65 eight years ago. The tent snaps on and fits tight, so any change would be noticeable. It is still in fine shape, color and dimensions as new. The boat is garaged, and gets much more use in sun than rain.

- Rick

[Todd Bradshaw]

Sunbrella tends to change its feel over time, which most of the polyester cover fabrics don't do as much. A Sunbrella cover that is a few years old will still work and look fine, but it will be much softer than it originally was. Therefore, there are issues to address with Sunbrella. I reinforce any spot where a fastener will go (like snaps) usually with an internal patch of Dacron sailcloth. The same is true of obvious spots where it will be pulled down over a piece of hardware as chafe prevention. Either Dacron sailcloth or one of the vinyl-coated nylon truck tarp fabrics are used for this, because they won't soften over time.

The bow light on my Boston Whaler's cover has such a patch, as do the grommets for the cover's support poles. The Nordica sailboat's cover has a 2" wide band of Dacron along the edges to reinforce all those fasteners along the edges of the cockpit. It's not absolutely critical to do this, but it makes a huge difference in how long the cover lasts. Sunbrella also needle-puckers, so it should be sewn with a long (4-5mm) straight stitch. Once you address those issues it is great stuff and really lasts.

BW3.jpg

nordica3.jpg



The Hobie kayaks have Weathermax covers. It was done mostly for price as they don't spend much time out in the sun between uses. It takes a bit less reinforcement than Sunbrella but the issues still exist, so it's worth doing. I have noticed a little bit of color change (fading) but not much so far and it is doing OK. The Blackstone griddle in the back has a cover made from Top Gun coated polyester. It is heavier and stiff but weatherproof (a bit more weatherproof than I'd like for a boat as breathability is often at least as important as waterproofness, especially on wooden boats).

Hobies.jpg

The big canoe's cover is Odyssey III polyester (6 oz.) I've used it for kayak cockpit covers and other, somewhat lighter covers for many years and it's nice both for price and keeping the stowed weight and bulk down.

DSCF0004.jpg

In a perfect world, I would sew them all using Tenara Thread (GoreTex/Teflon thread). It won't sun rot, but costs about $60 per spool the last time I looked. Instead, I use standard polyester thread that covers have been sewn with for decades. These cover fabrics will generally last about twice as long as the thread holding them together, so down the road you may need to do a bit of touch-up re-sewing.

[Edward Pearson]

There’s a few different weights of Sunbrella. Sunbrella plus, feels alot tougher and is properly waterproof though less breathable. My rowing boat cover is that and its of an order ‘tougher’ to feel than some ‘normal’ Sunbrella end of roll i’ve bought to have a go at making a cover. Just saying to know what you’re buying as its more a collection of fabrics than a specific one. Todd do you use the Plus?

[Toxophilite]

You have a Nordica 16!?? Cool! I had a Danica 16 for quite a while. Nice boats. Kind of miss mine.

Sunbrella tends to change its feel over time, which most of the polyester cover fabrics don't do as much. A Sunbrella cover that is a few years old will still work and look fine, but it will be much softer than it originally was. Therefore, there are issues to address with Sunbrella. I reinforce any spot where a fastener will go (like snaps) usually with an internal patch of Dacron sailcloth. The same is true of obvious spots where it will be pulled down over a piece of hardware as chafe prevention. Either Dacron sailcloth or one of the vinyl-coated nylon truck tarp fabrics are used for this, because they won't soften over time.

The bow light on my Boston Whaler's cover has such a patch, as do the grommets for the cover's support poles. The Nordica sailboat's cover has a 2" wide band of Dacron along the edges to reinforce all those fasteners along the edges of the cockpit. It's not absolutely critical to do this, but it makes a huge difference in how long the cover lasts. Sunbrella also needle-puckers, so it should be sewn with a long (4-5mm) straight stitch. Once you address those issues it is great stuff and really lasts.

BW3.jpg

nordica3.jpg



The Hobie kayaks have Weathermax covers. It was done mostly for price as they don't spend much time out in the sun between uses. It takes a bit less reinforcement than Sunbrella but the issues still exist, so it's worth doing. I have noticed a little bit of color change (fading) but not much so far and it is doing OK. The Blackstone griddle in the back has a cover made from Top Gun coated polyester. It is heavier and stiff but weatherproof (a bit more weatherproof than I'd like for a boat as breathability is often at least as important as waterproofness, especially on wooden boats).

Hobies.jpg

The big canoe's cover is Odyssey III polyester (6 oz.) I've used it for kayak cockpit covers and other, somewhat lighter covers for many years and it's nice both for price and keeping the stowed weight and bulk down.

DSCF0004.jpg

In a perfect world, I would sew them all using Tenara Thread (GoreTex/Teflon thread). It won't sun rot, but costs about $60 per spool the last time I looked. Instead, I use standard polyester thread that covers have been sewn with for decades. These cover fabrics will generally last about twice as long as the thread holding them together, so down the road you may need to do a bit of touch-up re-sewing.

[Todd Bradshaw]

Sunbrella plus is coated, so I don't usually use it and prefer a more breathable option. Yes, we had a Nordica for a while. I bought it cheap. It had been owned by an old couple who let it fill up with rainwater on the trailer until the rear support pads broke through the hull and it also got lots of gelcoat blisters. It took me about six months to dry it out, fix the breaks, sand and barrier coat the hull then paint it. At the time we had our trimaran out on a mooring and I also had my Mini 12 Meter in the garage, so I eventually sold the Nordica to a friend because it wasn't getting used. It was a really neat little boat and of all the boats I've worked on out in the driveway, it was the one that got the most attention from folks wanting to buy it.

nordica-4-copy.jpg

[Breakaway]

Never owned or used WeatherMax

Have gotten many years of service from both manufactured and self-made covers, awnings, enclosures, etc made of Sunbrella.


Kevin

[Bruce Bateau]

Looking for review from actual owners who have used these products. Internet states Sunbrella is longer lasting, but Weathermax appears to be less expensive. Don't mind paying more for Sunbrella if it is truly a better product.

Rod, I agree with things people have said above. I have used Sunbrella, and Odyssey with success for boat covers and cockpit tents- but you didn't tell us what you were planning to cover and how it would be used. I've found that the lower priced materials don't last as long and delaminate. They all work pretty well for a short-term project.

Things to consider:
* the area you need to cover- the costs can add up quickly
* the weight of each fabric- heavier material may be harder to deal with on the boat and sag more.
* breathability- are you trying to keep water from getting in? Is it ok if something is a little wet if most of the water stays out?
* Are you sewing it yourself? How much can your machine handle?

[Todd Bradshaw]

A few other things to be aware of. Your covers will both work better and last longer (including the thread) if you re-treat them every two or three years. The substance you want is a fluorocarbon and the best is 303 Fabric Guard pump-spray. My hand gets tired, so I stick mine in a cheap Harbor Freight spray gun hooked to the compressor. Just don't later try to spray paint or varnish with that gun. Do not use silicone sprays as they are not compatible with the original treatment that came on the fabric. The Fabric Guard will increase and refresh both water and UV resistance.

The best thread weight is going to generally be V-69 or V-92 (heavier but bobbins don't hold as much). Dabond Anti-wick polyester is what I use, and lines of stitching which don't show on the outside where possible don't suffer UV damage. Usually, if a sewn seam or joint is more than three layers thick there might be a better way to engineer that section. Also, a hot knife of some sort is the best way to cut these fabrics while preventing eventual raveling of cut edges.

[ulav8r]

Tenara thread from Amazon, https://www.amazon.com/Gore-Tenara-M...2-63e904010ad0

[Todd Bradshaw]

What a deal and it's only an 8 oz. cone. Yes, it is really good stuff if you can get your tension plates adjusted to grip on something that slippery, but the price is crazy.

[Rod Tait]

Cover will be for Elfyn which is in another thread. Customer has chosen Sunbrella and will advise to coat the cover every few years. Not sure if stored outside or inside. That will be up to owner. Using mast as ridge pole.
ridgebeam.jpg

[Jack Loudon]

I had a 31 ft powerboat that came with a big Sunbrella enclosure that covered half the boat. When the boat was sold 14 years later the original Sunbrella was ready to be replaced but that's a long time with no tears and no leaks. I was impressed.

[Garret]

Possibly won't help you, but my insulated coveralls have 10+ year old Sunbrella knee/leg patches that have stood up just fine!

More useful maybe is my gray Sunbrella mainsail cover which has 3 full Florida years & 8 Maine summers & is still fine.

[Toxophilite]

So people use sunbrella for boom camping tents? I was going to use sunforger canvas but a friend has some surplus sunbrella

Rod, I agree with things people have said above. I have used Sunbrella, and Odyssey with success for boat covers and cockpit tents- but you didn't tell us what you were planning to cover and how it would be used. I've found that the lower priced materials don't last as long and delaminate. They all work pretty well for a short-term project.

Things to consider:
* the area you need to cover- the costs can add up quickly
* the weight of each fabric- heavier material may be harder to deal with on the boat and sag more.
* breathability- are you trying to keep water from getting in? Is it ok if something is a little wet if most of the water stays out?
* Are you sewing it yourself? How much can your machine handle?

[Todd Bradshaw]

Sunforger is the best of the cotton canvas options, but dealing with the shrinkage makes getting a good fit which will stay that way quite difficult. I quit using it for that reason.

[rgthom]

On one of Roger Barnes videos he makes a carefully fitted boom tent using cotton Ventile. Then it gets wet and shrinks :-(
I see everyone is recommending the Sunbrella, but Weathermax is very good also.

[WI-Tom]

I note that no one has mention silnylon as a boat tent option (not sure if the OP is after a storage cover or tent).

If a simple single-walled tent is what you're after, it might work OK. I got factory seconds cheap (cosmetic flaws) but haven't gotten around to making a tent yet. It would be very different, and probably less durable, than a Sunbrella or something similar, but I've used this kind of tarp for ultralight backpacking and it works well to keep you dry.

I tend to be lazy enough to just get by with whatever is easiest, and right now that's a cheap little backpacking tent that (barely) fits onto my boat's sleeping platform:

tent.jpg

A real boat tent would be much better. So much so that I might actually make one someday.

Tom

[Bruce Bateau]

I'm not fond of Sunbrella for camping-cockpit tent. It's too heavy and hard to dry out on the fly, once it gets wet. I prefer the lighter more plastic-ey materials since they repel water and are easier to dry off and stow. For storage cover, its great.

[pez_leon]

I'm not fond of Sunbrella for camping-cockpit tent [...] I prefer the lighter more plastic-ey materials since they repel water and are easier to dry off and stow.

I was just thinking about this. From the perspective of a backpacker these heavy canvas-esque fabrics are the last thing I'd think to build a tent from. Are they preferred over tent nylon because they breathe so much better? Bruce, do you get much condensation on the inside of your light plastic-ey materials?

Thanks!

- James

[WI-Tom]

I was just thinking about this. From the perspective of a backpacker these heavy canvas-esque fabrics are the last thing I'd think to build a tent from. Are they preferred over tent nylon because they breathe so much better? Bruce, do you get much condensation on the inside of your light plastic-ey materials?

Thanks!

- James

I've used polytarp for a temporary improvised tent--there was lots of condensation. On land, I've used a single-walled silnylon tarp for years of backpacking, and condensation has not been a problem. I keep a gap at the bottom, and that--with the open ends--seems to provide enough ventilation to avoid problems in most conditions.

Tom

[rgthom]

For the canvas-esque materials there are a lot of good properties for the lighter Weathermax 65. It is uncoated and breathes. In my fully enclosed boat tent I have not had condensation issues. It is lighter than Sunbrella, but still tough and tear resistant. It is supposed to be rated 1500 hours UV, my 10 year old tent shows no fading. I have not camped in heavy rain, but chose this material because McMullen and other Salish sailors used and recommended it. It is cheaper than Sunbrella, about $22 for a 62 wide yard.
I would not want it for a backpacking tent, but if considering making a boat tent I would at least get a swatch of this and some of the other materials before deciding.

[Bruce Bateau]

I find that the plasticy materials do get damp- depending on the relative humidity. There's not much to be done about it.

In this pic, you can see I've created a two-part tent. The lime material (sorry don't recall the trade name) is some kind of coated double-ripstop nylon. It sheds rain beautifully and is reasonably light and easy to sew. It always has a bit of dew that always dripped on my head. I sewed a smaller liner of Sunrbrella that hangs inside and catches most of the drips. It works great.

Here's what it looks like before the liner is installed:


Here's my friend Dan's all Sunbrella cover. It works fine but he reports it soaks up a lot of water over a few wet days and is heavy to handle.

[Bruce Bateau]

A few other PNW sail & oar guys have tents similar to this:



This one belongs to Andy M and I think it is Sunbrella or similar with wooden battens. He claims his doesn't get drippy or clammy, but I always wonder if that's because he hasn't been out under the right conditions? Some say it is airflow, but I find that damp just comes with dusk around these parts.

[Breakaway]

If the Sunbrella is soaking up water and getting heavier, its water repellent needs to be renewed.Glen Raven Mills, maker of Sunbrella, recommends 303 Fabric Guard. I have use Star Brites fabric waterproofing to the same effect.

I





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Toxophilite]

My understanding was that the heavier fabrics tend to be quieter/stronger in a breeze and also have insulating properties (in cold and warm weather)
More so than the the conventional modern backpacking tent fabrics.

I thought one generally preshrunk canvas. Does it keep shrinking? Perhaps it might not be ideal for the PNW. Probably would take forever to dry in cooler months.

[Todd Bradshaw]

Pre-shrunk canvas will still shrink. If it doesn't have to fit anything specifically, that may not matter, but if it does, it can be a really big problem. Generally you figure about 3% even on Sunforger. When a 100" long seam on your tent of cover (which is not all that rare) shrinks 3" you are screwed if it was actually built to fit precisely. As for the guys with Sunbrella soaking up water, it simply means that it needs re-treatment. Which will also renew UV protection on both the fabric and the thread holding it together at the seams. As expensive as the cloth it as well as skilled labor to make something from it, it doesn't make much sense not to do whatever you can to protect it.

[Bruce Bateau]

Pre-shrunk canvas will still shrink. If it doesn't have to fit anything specifically, that may not matter, but if it does, it can be a really big problem. Generally you figure about 3% even on Sunforger. When a 100" long seam on your tent of cover (which is not all that rare) shrinks 3" you are screwed if it was actually built to fit precisely. As for the guys with Sunbrella soaking up water, it simply means that it needs re-treatment. Which will also renew UV protection on both the fabric and the thread holding it together at the seams. As expensive as the cloth it as well as skilled labor to make something from it, it doesn't make much sense not to do whatever you can to protect it.

Agree that my Sunbrella needs recoating... As for some of my friends, even if it isn't soaking up, it is still kind of damp and dries a bit slow after several days of rain...

-Bruce