What's the fascination with trucks?

[Breakaway]

Rarely. Walk through any lot and every Crew Cab you see will have front buckets. Seldom you’ll find a bench with drop-down armrest.

Do you have sales figures? You may be correct, but that is an anecdote or guess.

At any rate, someone seeking the ability to seat six can have it. This is relative to the OP comparison vehicle, which cannot seat six.

Kevin


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[Garret]

Not sure how it is at your place, but here a tractor-trailer is electronically limited to 50-55 mph.
The load distribution differences, the drag distribution, the effect it has on trailer stability make a world of difference.
I've learned while writing that pickups can too have a semi-independent control over trailer brakes, good to know



This is including, probably, both of us. I have a need for a car with three rows of seats, but I moved to the city centre specifically to have my family save time and be car-independent. And then I commute by car anyway, driving my kid around to do the round trip in 35-40 minutes instead of 70-80 a tram would take. Given it's just one trip a day, it's hard to justify the time savings.

Some places here have limits like that on big trucks, but not many, On the open limited access highway it's normal to see one doing 70+.

The electric brakes I use on my trailers are 1) adjustable to match the load & 2) able to be activated manually. The latter is a huge help in slippery conditions, where more braking on the truck makes the trailer say "My time to be out in front!" - which is not fun

[LeeG]

Not sure I agree. After all - isn't a tractor-trailer a truck pulling a trailer?

IMO, a properly loaded, balanced, & braked trailer with the hitch in good condition & safety chains should not be an issue. Of course many aren't proper...

My point is that we in the US have been able to afford consuming fuel at such a rate that nearly everyone can fly down the road at speeds that consume a lot of fuel. We don’t need to accomodate 75 hp sedans loaded up that take 20 seconds to get up to speed requiring everyone to observe some minimum in lane discipline. All the fantasic engineering since the 80’s gave peple better efficiency, emissions and power. What sells the Tesla is insane torque and acceleration. The hybrid F150 has 430hp!

[Garret]

My point is that we in the US have been able to afford consuming fuel at such a rate that nearly everyone can fly down the road at speeds that consume a lot of fuel. We don’t need to accomodate 75 hp sedans loaded up that take 20 seconds to get up to speed requiring everyone to observe some minimum in lane discipline. All the fantasic engineering since the 80’s gave peple better efficiency, emissions and power. What sells the Tesla is insane torque and acceleration. The hybrid F150 has 430hp!

I don't disagree. While people here in VT will drive 70+ on the interstate, when I took a trip through southern NH & into MA early last summer, cars & pickups were doing 80-90. Your average 1/2-3/4 ton truck is maybe getting 10MPG (more like 7 or 8 for many) at that speed. I don't get it.

[L.W. Baxter]

Changing out a parking light?

right, and turned out it was a fuse

[L.W. Baxter]

But a plethora of 10mm sockets!

i used to think that if i only had the correct socket, everything would be right with the world.

that was last week.

[LeeG]

i used to think that if i only had the correct socket, everything would be right with the world.

that was last week.

I used to think that about plastic bins, that it would make me neater. I just ended up w lots of bins.

[LeeG]

I don't disagree. While people here in VT will drive 70+ on the interstate, when I took a trip through southern NH & into MA early last summer, cars & pickups were doing 80-90. Your average 1/2-3/4 ton truck is maybe getting 10MPG (more like 7 or 8 for many) at that speed. I don't get it.

we’re a society that kept getting free energy lunches. Sure you have to pay at the pump but compared to homo saps for the previous millenias we’re getting the power of thousands of animal muscle power in a tank. All in the last century. Every hiccup in supply was followed by more, better, faster. No reason to go back to those horrible times when a truck took 20 seconds to get up to 50 mph or a loaded sedan crawled over a mountain pass at 25 mph. We can afford it! And bit by bit fewer will afford it. At some point, maybe 30 yrs down the line we’ll be able to afford the transport of food, fertilizer and essentials for infrastructure but maybe half as many can afford personal auto use like the present.

[L.W. Baxter]

we’re a society that kept getting free energy lunches. Sure you have to pay at the pump but compared to homo saps for the previous millenias we’re getting the power of thousands of animal muscle power in a tank. All in the last century. Every hiccup in supply was followed by more, better, faster. No reason to go back to those horrible times when a truck took 20 seconds to get up to 50 mph or a loaded sedan crawled over a mountain pass at 25 mph. We can afford it! And bit by bit fewer will afford it. At some point, maybe 30 yrs down the line we’ll be able to afford the transport of food, fertilizer and essentials for infrastructure but maybe half as many can afford personal auto use like the present.

and in that future, lack of personal transport will be moot. the next generation will never go outside. the drab and neglected world around them will be no competition for an endlessly tailorable virtual reality.

[LeeG]

and in that future, lack of personal transport will be moot. the next generation will never go outside. the drab and neglected world around them will be no competition for an endlessly tailorable virtual reality.

except for those three kids out having adventures, slaying dragons and riding their bikes through the next county.

[Breakaway]

My point is that we in the US have been able to afford consuming fuel at such a rate that nearly everyone can fly down the road at speeds that consume a lot of fuel. We don’t need to accomodate 75 hp sedans loaded up that take 20 seconds to get up to speed requiring everyone to observe some minimum in lane discipline. All the fantasic engineering since the 80’s gave peple better efficiency, emissions and power. What sells the Tesla is insane torque and acceleration. The hybrid F150 has 430hp!

That is it. Sell the sizzle not the steak! It results in more sales.


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[Osborne Russell]

and in that future, lack of personal transport will be moot. the next generation will never go outside. the drab and neglected world around them will be no competition for an endlessly tailorable virtual reality.

Silver people on the shoreline
leave us be

[Jack Loudon]

except for those three kids out having adventures, slaying dragons and riding their bikes through the next county.

Yes, a polarization. 90% of people inside with their virtual reality and the other 10% outside doing real stuff. It hits me when I'm bicycling on a beautiful day and pass a gym window and see the people inside on their on Peloton exercycles staring at their screens.

The newer giant trucks (not OUR trucks ) are the owner's castle on wheels, elevating, separating, and defending them from the outside world.

[Nicholas Carey]

Yes, a polarization. 90% of people inside with their virtual reality and the other 10% outside doing real stuff. It hits me when I'm bicycling on a beautiful day and pass a gym window and see the people inside on their on Peloton exercycles staring at their screens.

The newer giant trucks (not OUR trucks ) are the owner's castle on wheels, elevating, separating, and defending them from the outside world.

Some years back, Dodge/Chrysler/Plymouth went through a spate of really aggressive-looking cars, tall, with quite small greenhouses. The things looked like some sort of armored personnel carrier.

Apparently, focus-grouping designs told them that the small green houses and tall sheet metal made people feel protected and safe.

I'm pretty that that same sort of thing is behind all these gargantuan pickups and SUVs. I know that that was pretty much the raison d'etre for GM's Hummer.

[LeeG]

maybe 2019 was peak gasoline, one of these days I’ll get it right.

https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/Le...s=WGFUPUS2&f=W

amazing sales history for light trucks

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...es-since-1951/

[Beowolf]

Some years back, Dodge/Chrysler/Plymouth went through a spate of really aggressive-looking cars, tall, with quite small greenhouses. The things looked like some sort of armored personnel carrier.

Apparently, focus-grouping designs told them that the small green houses and tall sheet metal made people feel protected and safe.

I'm pretty that that same sort of thing is behind all these gargantuan pickups and SUVs. I know that that was pretty much the raison d'etre for GM's Hummer.

High door lines make it easier to grab that fifth star in side impact ratings. True, some take it to excess (Chevy Camaro), while others figure out a way to engineer around it. After having test-driven two Subaru Foresters, I don’t know how we escaped purchasing one. From inside, the visibility is unparalleled!

Ok…. So TLC finds them to be unbearably void of personality.

[Nicholas Carey]

maybe 2019 was peak gasoline, one of these days I’ll get it right.

https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/Le...s=WGFUPUS2&f=W

amazing sales history for light trucks

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...es-since-1951/

And that growth curve is for "light trucks" meaning a GVW of 8,500 pounds or less.

Here's a 2009 list of class-3 trucks/vans with GVW between 8,500 and 10,000 pounds:

https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/pdfs...ehicleList.pdf

Ford F-250/F-350 (trucks) and E-250/E-350 vans
Dodge Ram 2500
Lincoln Navigator
Chevy K2500
Ford Excursion
Chevy Suburban
GMC Yukon

among others. So that curve is missing a lot of stuff that people buy as their daily driver so to speak.

[Beowolf]

Do you have sales figures? You may be correct, but that is an anecdote or guess.

At any rate, someone seeking the ability to seat six can have it. This is relative to the OP comparison vehicle, which cannot seat six.

Kevin


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You get to split hairs when comparing 5/6 passenger trucks to a municipal bus, but I’ve got to put up numbers?

Damn Kev, that’s harsh.

[Breakaway]

You get to split hairs when comparing 5/6 passenger trucks to a municipal bus, but I’ve got to put up numbers?

Damn Kev, that’s harsh.

His comparison is to a Renault minivan.

Was not meant to be harsh. We cool as far as I am concerned.

Kevin




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[Dan McCosh]

maybe 2019 was peak gasoline, one of these days I’ll get it right.

https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/Le...s=WGFUPUS2&f=W

amazing sales history for light trucks

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...es-since-1951/

FWIW: Try to define a "truck". It's a catch all term for everything from subcompact cars to 18-wheelers. Pickups are only one subset. Much of this confusion comes from the various federal regulations that use the category to develop two sets of rules. Oddest having two sets of sales standards based on fuel economy. Defining something like a PT Cruiser as a truck offsets the low mileage of a big pickup in the company's truck CAFE standard. Same with the SUV acronym, which is pretty much impossible to define these days. It originally applied only the the CJ-series Jeep, to allow that vehicle to avoid the crash standards which would have outlawed it and bankrupted AMC. Today, it is a fashionable way to refer to what once was a station wagon. Of course, station wagons rarely were used to go to a station, and so on. If one wants to know how a pickup became fashionable, you just to have to ask the same question about Levis.

[Art Haberland]

good point. My Landy is considered a "station wagon" by NJ's DMV.

[LeeG]

FWIW: Try to define a "truck". It's a catch all term for everything from subcompact cars to 18-wheelers. Pickups are only one subset. Much of this confusion comes from the various federal regulations that use the category to develop two sets of rules. Oddest having two sets of sales standards based on fuel economy. Defining something like a PT Cruiser as a truck offsets the low mileage of a big pickup in the company's truck CAFE standard. Same with the SUV acronym, which is pretty much impossible to define these days. It originally applied only the the CJ-series Jeep, to allow that vehicle to avoid the crash standards which would have outlawed it and bankrupted AMC. Today, it is a fashionable way to refer to what once was a station wagon. Of course, station wagons rarely were used to go to a station, and so on. If one wants to know how a pickup became fashionable, you just to have to ask the same question about Levis.

thx, I should sharpen my google searching to parse out that subset.

[Nicholas Carey]

FWIW: Try to define a "truck". It's a catch all term for everything from subcompact cars to 18-wheelers. Pickups are only one subset. Much of this confusion comes from the various federal regulations that use the category to develop two sets of rules. Oddest having two sets of sales standards based on fuel economy. Defining something like a PT Cruiser as a truck offsets the low mileage of a big pickup in the company's truck CAFE standard. Same with the SUV acronym, which is pretty much impossible to define these days. It originally applied only the the CJ-series Jeep, to allow that vehicle to avoid the crash standards which would have outlawed it and bankrupted AMC. Today, it is a fashionable way to refer to what once was a station wagon. Of course, station wagons rarely were used to go to a station, and so on. If one wants to know how a pickup became fashionable, you just to have to ask the same question about Levis.

The DOT defines "light truck" in 49 CFR 523.2 as

"Light truck means a non-passenger automobile meeting the criteria in § 523.5."

And 49 CFR 523.5 defines "non-passenger vehicle" as

[quote]523.5 Non-passenger automobile.

A non-passenger automobile means an automobile that is not a passenger automobile or a work truck and includes vehicles described in paragraphs (a) and (b) of this section:

(a) An automobile designed to perform at least one of the following functions:

(1) Transport more than 10 persons;

(2) Provide temporary living quarters;

(3) Transport property on an open bed;

(4) Provide, as sold to the first retail purchaser, greater cargo-carrying than passenger-carrying volume, such as in a cargo van; if a vehicle is sold with a second-row seat, its cargo-carrying volume is determined with that seat installed, regardless of whether the manufacturer has described that seat as optional; or

(5) Permit expanded use of the automobile for cargo-carrying purposes or other nonpassenger-carrying purposes through [removal of the seats so as to provide expanded used of the vehicle for cargo-carrying purposes via a flat deck].

(b) An automobile capable of off-highway operation, as indicated by the fact that it:

(1)

(i) Has 4-wheel drive; or

(ii) Is rated at more than 6,000 pounds gross vehicle weight; and

(2) Has at least four of the following characteristics calculated when the automobile is at curb weight, on a level surface, with the front wheels parallel to the automobile's longitudinal centerline, and the tires inflated to the manufacturer's recommended pressure -

(i) Approach angle of not less than 28 degrees.

(ii) Breakover angle of not less than 14 degrees.

(iii) Departure angle of not less than 20 degrees.

(iv) Running clearance of not less than 20 centimeters.

(v) Front and rear axle clearances of not less than 18 centimeters each.[quote]

[George Jung]

I don't 'need' a truck ('cept a few times a year) - but I could use a 200 hp hybrid with good carrying capacity and 57 mpg:

$27,000 starting.

https://www.toyota.com/prius/

[Beowolf]

His comparison is to a Renault minivan.

Was not meant to be harsh. We cool as far as I am concerned.

Kevin




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Sorry.. I thought you quoted the post where he compared it to a bus with similar exterior dimensions.

Cool, we are.

[SaltyD from BC]

How about hand trucks, they kosher any more?

[sonofswen]

[Nicholas Carey]

How about hand trucks, they kosher any more?

Not nearly manly enough -- you call those wheels?

[Beowolf]

Not nearly manly enough -- you call those wheels?

It does have a pretty wicked lift kit though.

[stromborg]

Oh, you were looking for manly trucks?

[WszystekPoTrochu]

This video from Not Just Bikes reminded me of the trucks thread. The video itself comes to similar points and conclusions as our small collective wisdom did, it's also unlikely to change the mind of a single truckophile. It adds a bit in the context of why people wrongly perceive trucks as safer, and some other minor things. And statistics!

But, why I'm half-necroposting is this:

I have a need for a car with three rows of seats, but I moved to the city centre specifically to have my family save time and be car-independent. And then I commute by car anyway, driving my kid around to do the round trip in 35-40 minutes instead of 70-80 a tram would take. Given it's just one trip a day, it's hard to justify the time savings.

I am proud to say that for the last month, I've switched almost exclusively to public transport for the morning commute. And you know what? I was wrong, the car didn't save me time. The round trip of 35-50 minutes now takes me 40-60 minutes, and I get to walk, talk to my kid more, read news or play chess in the other direction and save money - a single morning round trip cost me exactly $1 in fuel with today's rates, or $0.75 using public transit.

Sooo, this thread made a small positive dent somewhere

[Art Haberland]

This video from Not Just Bikes reminded me of the trucks thread. The video itself comes to similar points and conclusions as our small collective wisdom did, it's also unlikely to change the mind of a single truckophile. It adds a bit in the context of why people wrongly perceive trucks as safer, and some other minor things. And statistics!

But, why I'm half-necroposting is this:

I am proud to say that for the last month, I've switched almost exclusively to public transport for the morning commute. And you know what? I was wrong, the car didn't save me time. The round trip of 35-50 minutes now takes me 40-60 minutes, and I get to walk, talk to my kid more, read news or play chess in the other direction and save money - a single morning round trip cost me exactly $1 in fuel with today's rates, or $0.75 using public transit.

Sooo, this thread made a small positive dent somewhere

That was a good video. I personally wish I could ride my bicycle to work, but I would quickly wind up a statistic (and not a good one) due to how badly the roads are patrolled around here. Getting into Atlantic City requires crossing a bridge as it is on Absecon Island. The closest and safest bridge is privately owned and does not allow Bicycles or pedestrians. This means I have to brave one of three state highways. The safest one would turn my 12 mile commute to work into a 24 mile one as I would have to miles out of my way to the far end of the island and then ride to the other. The other two roads, while marked at 50mph, often see drivers doing 70+ mph on them as the town that has jurisdiction does not patrol them often. I know my boss often does 100mph on the way to and from work.

[Figment]

How about hand trucks, they kosher any more?

We had two like that, used for battery handling. One had its own battery and motor and tracks for climbing stairs. The phone company built switching stations with battery banks downstairs, and then OSHA got involved....

[Dan McCosh]

Everybody knows that Studebaker started with horses, then became an electric car company, then switched to IC engines.