Carbon Footprint of the Wooden Boat

[Bruce Brown]

I'd like to see WB commission a study of wooden boatbuilding's impact on the environment, using fiberglass construction as the control. The following are questions which might be answered:

1. per foot comparison of wooden construction with fiberglass construction e.g total construction costs
2. how worksite construction, emissions, waste disposal, and maintenance compare
3. engine emissions and effectiveness of alternative energy generation in lowering footprint
4. comparison of environmental consequences for longitudinal boat maintenance (anti-fouling, re-painting, rig replacement)
5. wood vs. fiberglass disposal carbon costs
6. carbon footprint estimates for common materials (and alternatives) like epoxies, adhesives and bedding compounds, fasteners
7. how cold molding construction effects traditional wood construction carbon footprint

I'm sure the readership can add to this list...

[wizbang 13]

trouble maker

[Toxophilite]

eek! Next you'll be asking if they're politically correct!

[wizbang 13]

and before we get too deep, a monohulls pronoun is she
a catamarangs pronoun is he

[Skegemog]

trouble maker

Ha!

[sp_clark]

Maybe the Admins can move this thread into The Bilge before the knives come out...

[Bruce Brown]

see, that's why I suggested it!

[Paul Schweiss]

Send this to the Bilge.

However, I would like to announce I identify as Floki

[Clinton B Chase]

It's a fair question! The real problem we have is the throw-a-way society we run. That's not so much a woodenboat thing but there is certainly waste. I would suggest that the composites industry is most to blame. The waste from vacuum infusion and the like is breathtaking.

[Breakaway]

I would think step one would be to define wooden boat. That is, at what point does "composite" become a more accurate description?

Kevin

[Brian Palmer]

Richard Jagels' column has touched on this tangentially but not directly, as far as I can tell from a search of the magazine index.

[Chris-on-the-Boat]

Do the research, write it up, and submit it to the magazine.

But i don't think you'll reach any astonishing new conclusions. I think we already know the answer. God didn't make fiberglass trees.

[Garret]

It would seem to me that traditional construction (carvel or lapstrake) would have little carbon footprint other than the energy used to build & finishes. Paints & epoxy can have significant environmental impacts. The hardware for wood vs, FG would be similar, as well as sails, etc. so I'd think the main difference would be the hull. Cold molded and epoxy covered strip built would lie somewhere in-between I'd think. However, a FG boat at the end of its life goes to the landfill - possibly leaching all sorts of fun stuff into the soil.

The above is more environmental than carbon footprint. Trees remove carbon, but the sawmill uses it - maybe that balances out? Dunno, but it still has to be way less than making fiberglass & epoxy I'd think.

[Brian Palmer]

There are people who specialize in conducting Life Cycle Analyses (LCAs). One group at the company I work for does them. Completing one for an object as complicated as a boat hull and deck in different materials (wood, solid fiberglass, wood-cored fiberglass, aluminum) would be a significant undertaking. You could have to start with cutting and milling trees and transporting that lumber to where it is used. Extracting oil and converting it into resin, mining silica for glass and bauxite for aluminum, etc.

[AJZimm]

This is the purview of a whole professional field called Life Cycle Assessment (LCA), which I was tangentially involved with at one point. It can get horribly complicated, but that doesn’t prevent people from having a go at it.

One study on just this topic was done in France in 2016, based on an 18 metre passenger transport boat.

From the abstract of the study: "Our results demonstrate the benefits of using a wood-based hull compared to other materials."

You can, of course, download the PDF of the whole study if you wish

[shortboot]

Woodenboat magazine as it began is a drying publication. The content of its articles as a majority doesn't relate to the skill of woodenboat building. Will not renew my subscription.

[wizbang 13]

It ain’t called wood boat building , there is a sister publication for that, it’s called wooden boat.

[dutchpp]

................Trees remove carbon, but the sawmill uses it - maybe that balances out? Dunno, but it still has to be way less than making fiberglass & epoxy I'd think.

May I introduce sawmill "De Rat" ( yes indeed "The Rat" ) a well known wind driven sawmill in Friesland in the Netherlands. It's frequently used by builders of traditional ships.
This guarantees an almost CO2 neutral, usually carvel, built ship.
de rat.jpg
rat2.jpg
An example in European oak;
fries jacht.jpg

[shortboot]

don't know your point, splain

[rbgarr]

Seeing all those boats driven ashore and totalled by recent hurricane surges makes one wonder how they've been "disposed of".

[Bruce Brown]

As the OP here, I feel justified in wading into what appears to be a crowd of feelings which have been or expect to be hurt. I am sorry to point out, however, that we have met the enemy and he is us. Not only us but we're at the very least standing on the fringes. So how about some constructive suggestions?

An example might be this organization which, unfortunately, is operating only on the other side of the country (https://www.decarbthepassage.net/). The Island Institute here in Maine has declared that they are researching electric propulsion conversions for the lobster industry. Much simpler would be encouraging a supply of R99 and using existing engines. A campaign such as this would build a bit of moral high ground which the industry sorely needs in its fight to delay the implementation of Right Whale-friendly gear. We might even be able to buy renewable diesel for our boats too.

[sp_clark]

Walt Kelly fan are you too, eh?

That bit about R99? Not encountered that before reading your post. Interesting stuff.

Thanks for OP'ing this thread.

[Rumars]

I'd like to see WB commission a study of wooden boatbuilding's impact on the environment, using fiberglass construction as the control. The following are questions which might be answered:

1. per foot comparison of wooden construction with fiberglass construction e.g total construction costs
2. how worksite construction, emissions, waste disposal, and maintenance compare
3. engine emissions and effectiveness of alternative energy generation in lowering footprint
4. comparison of environmental consequences for longitudinal boat maintenance (anti-fouling, re-painting, rig replacement)
5. wood vs. fiberglass disposal carbon costs
6. carbon footprint estimates for common materials (and alternatives) like epoxies, adhesives and bedding compounds, fasteners
7. how cold molding construction effects traditional wood construction carbon footprint

I'm sure the readership can add to this list...

Your asking is to broad, comparing apples to oranges and potatoes. We have the tech to reduce "carbon footprint" but you have to be prepared to pay for it.

1. What are we comparing? Old growth burma teak vs. polyester FG? Or domestic fir vs. carbon epoxy?
2. How do we build? Steam bending? Infusion? Chopper gun? How do you heat and cool the place?
3. The shipping industry bets on two horses, methanol and ammonia.
4. Wood is not better.
5. Both are toxic waste, wood will release its carbon content by default, glass won't unless burned.
6. Very complicated, their origin and tech is to diverse. We can make plant based epoxies and carbon fiber, using renewable energy in their production. Compare with a copper nail mined in Chile, smelted in China and sold in the US.
7. Depends on the glue source. Cut veneers are a more efficient use of wood then anything else.

[AJBTC]

These are good questions, and I don't think all that political. Every builder I know, from large commercial to small wood shop, is concerned about waste. This is just a waste question writ large.

Second, I assume the biggest waste savings would be to find an old boat and restore it, no matter what the hull material.

[AJBTC]

don't know your point, splain

Wooden Boat Magazine is published by Woodenboat Publishing, which also publishes Professional Boatbuilder.

https://www.proboat.com/

The internet is awash with boatbuilding series videos and techniques.

[sp_clark]

... you have to be prepared to pay for it.

Words to live by, 24/7/365 especially these days.

5. ...wood will release its carbon content by default, glass won't unless burned.

Um, glass has carbon innit?

Last I heard it's (mostly) silicon & oxygen, maybe some other trace elements. And it doesn't burn well.

[Breakaway]

Um, glass has carbon innit?

I am almost positive the reference was to fiberglass, another material from which boats are made.

Kevin

[johnw]

I am almost positive the reference was to fiberglass, another material from which boats are made.

Kevin

AKA GRP, or glass reinforced plastic.

[Rumars]

Yes, my meaning was GRP. The most common recycling procedure for GRP is shredding and burning in a cement kiln. Another way is pyrolysis, wich actually recovers hydrocarbons. The biggest problem is contamination from paint and antifouling, wich require special precautions.
Landfilling the GRP keeps the carbon locked in, but of course this creates other problems.

[heimlaga]

It is possible to build wooden boats with a rather low carbon footprints.

If I go into the our wood parcel (1,2 km from home) and cut down a few spruce trees and use my tractor to uproot some stumps for grown crooks and bring the logs to a Woodmizer band sawmill some 5 km from home and bring the timber home and sticker it the only fossil carbon emissions will be those from the chainsaw and the tractor and the sawmill. Very small amounts that is. All pats of the tree that aren't boat timber becomes either construction timber or shuttering boards or firewood. The twigs are left in the woods as fertilizer for the new trees growing up. Hardly anything goes to waste.
With those boards and crooks and some spruce saplings sawn in half for ribs and some birch for thole pins it isn't too hard to build a clinker rowboat. The only store bought materials would be nails (or rivets) and screws and a stainless steel flat bar for a keel shoe and some cotton to put between the lands. Linseed oil and tar could also be home grown but for the sake of efficiency they would be store bought.
That would make an almost entirely renewable boats built using very little natural resources and having a very small carbon footprint.

[wizbang 13]

Renewable boats…. Self fulfilling prophesy
renew that rotten wood every ten years

[heimlaga]

More like every 40 years.
There are quite a few of those tarred clinker built spruce boats that are over 80 years old and afloat with more original timber than replacement timber in the hull. The oldest one I know locally to still be in regular use was built in the 1880-ies.

[Tom Jackson]

See WoodenBoat No. 283, November/December 2021. Richard Jagels in his "Wood Technology" column on page 82 has an evaluation of life-cycle analysis, including the French comparison that someone mentioned above. It compares wood, aluminum, and fiberglass boats. It's an interesting read, and long story short, wood came out very favorably, especially for boats built with locally available species.

[Rumars]

It is possible to build wooden boats with a rather low carbon footprints.

If I go into the our wood parcel (1,2 km from home) and cut down a few spruce trees and use my tractor to uproot some stumps for grown crooks and bring the logs to a Woodmizer band sawmill some 5 km from home and bring the timber home and sticker it the only fossil carbon emissions will be those from the chainsaw and the tractor and the sawmill. Very small amounts that is. All pats of the tree that aren't boat timber becomes either construction timber or shuttering boards or firewood. The twigs are left in the woods as fertilizer for the new trees growing up. Hardly anything goes to waste.
With those boards and crooks and some spruce saplings sawn in half for ribs and some birch for thole pins it isn't too hard to build a clinker rowboat. The only store bought materials would be nails (or rivets) and screws and a stainless steel flat bar for a keel shoe and some cotton to put between the lands. Linseed oil and tar could also be home grown but for the sake of efficiency they would be store bought.
That would make an almost entirely renewable boats built using very little natural resources and having a very small carbon footprint.

You could also borrow the neighbors horse team, float the wood to the water powered sawmill, use only treenails and caulk with moos. In a warmer location you could use an elephant to drag the tree out of the jungle, split it by hand and sew the planks with coconut rope.
I'm not kidding, I can buy wood that was processed like that if I'm prepared to fork over enough money.

As for durability, what's the problem if it's low? After all the trade has to survive somehow, the boatbuilder and boatrepairer have to eat.

[heimlaga]

You could also borrow the neighbors horse team, float the wood to the water powered sawmill, use only treenails and caulk with moos. In a warmer location you could use an elephant to drag the tree out of the jungle, split it by hand and sew the planks with coconut rope.
I'm not kidding, I can buy wood that was processed like that if I'm prepared to fork over enough money.

As for durability, what's the problem if it's low? After all the trade has to survive somehow, the boatbuilder and boatrepairer have to eat.

Or I could bring out the old pit saw............It is sharp and ready to go but I have only needed it once.

I prefere to harvest and process boat timber the same way and at the same time as I harvest timber for other projects. With chainsaw and tractor. The other options are just not feasible in practice. "Shopping" speciality timber in the woods and having it sawn at one of the local sawmills often requires only mariginally more time than one would spend searching for and fetching sawn timber from far away. The cash cost i negible.
I have yet to build an entire boat from it though........
Last friday I found a pair of very nice gunwales inside a very slender spruce tree which had started to lean after a storm. I will put them in storage until needed.