Any thoughts?

[Ted Hoppe]

Wow. This would be quite a project. I'll be following. I presume you've been following the Tally Ho saga?

Regretfully - Tally Ho is a commercial enterprise disguised as a passion wooden boat project (although it is to many and what we want it to be). This is not good advice to someone who is not set up to do self promotion and kick start cash support. It is a fallacy to promote it to folks who have no idea of scale and effort. I may be incorrect about many things - but holding up Tally ho as a rare example of building a new boat using of skill, timing, kick starter buyins from patrons and youtube and pretending it is a rebuild is quite a leap.

[Woxbox]

Regretfully - Tally Ho is a commercial enterprise disguised as a passion wooden boat project (although it is to many and what we want it to be). This is not good advice to someone who is not set up to do self promotion and kick start cash support. It is a fallacy to promote it to folks who have no idea of scale and effort. I may be incorrect about many things - but holding up Tally ho as a rare example of building a new boat using of skill, timing, kick starter buyins from patrons and youtube and pretending it is a rebuild is quite a leap.

My point in referencing Tally Ho was the massive shift in mission that occurred after the boat was purchased for $1 and then carefully surveyed. And, of course, Leo wasn't the first dreamer to take her on. But your point is well taken - to get the job done, Leo was forced to turn the project into online entertainment. I'm not suggesting that's the route for this boat, only to look at the Tally Ho project as a cautionary tale.

[WoodenJay]

Regretfully - Tally Ho is a commercial enterprise disguised as a passion wooden boat project (although it is to many and what we want it to be). This is not good advice to someone who is not set up to do self promotion and kick start cash support. It is a fallacy to promote it to folks who have no idea of scale and effort. I may be incorrect about many things - but holding up Tally ho as a rare example of building a new boat using of skill, timing, kick starter buyins from patrons and youtube and pretending it is a rebuild is quite a leap.

Oh, to be totally fair. I fully intend to leverage every ability in my arsenal to complete the project. And... Well... I actually work in the entertainment industry and am a digital producer, with crowdfunding and television experience. That being said, I am not doing this as a commercial opportunity, but rather I would love to own this boat and sail her one day. I'm not interested in selling her for profit, but rather to make sure that she comes back to life. I am in a situation where I can save a cool piece of boating history, and just like I do with warbirds, I want to make it count!

Sent from my SM-A536U using Tapatalk

[sp_clark]

Warbirds... can you dance too??

[WoodenJay]

Warbirds... can you dance too??

Dance? No. Lots of instruments though.

[Thad Van Gilder]

So I was able to get some information after posting. It's a 1938 Rhodes 34' Lake-One. Manufactured by the Skaneateles Boat and Canoe Co. I guess this one has a Volvo Penta in it, which would not have been the original, which might explain the dual screws. I did find a previous listing for it that shows some better angles and a better idea how she's been stored.
http://www.antiqueboatamerica.com/Bo...Lake_One_41970

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No way? I used to own a Rhodes Lake Erie one design. 34' 1940. mine had a single centerline engine though. Her name was Tempest.

[WoodenJay]

No way? I used to own a Rhodes Lake Erie one design. 34' 1940. mine had a single centerline engine though. Her name was Tempest.

That's awesome! Do you have any photos, any information at all that might be of use to me? I am going to need to have a mast fabricated so any pictures or anything of your 34' would be super useful as it might help to give me dimensions to base a new design off of.

[Toxophilite]

Tally-ho is a rebuild. There's nothing regretful about it. Nor is anything 'disguised' It's all pretty upfront

To say so is frankly ridiculous.
Just because he was clever enough to turn his passion into something that pays for itself via LOTS AND LOTS of hard work does not make it any less remarkable or worthy.
The only reason he is 'setup' is that he set himself up. BRAVO!

Should he be alone and desperately running out of funds and taking years and years before finally falling into financial ruin to make it more noble and romantic??
Hogwash!
It started simply and gained some momentum. Leo looks like he worked like a dog, was resourceful and was very clever in documenting the process.
Many many many people gain huge amounts of pleasure from his efforts both in restoration and documentation.
His energy , dedication and plain hard work has, as it often does, attracted much interested, financial and otherwise and he has been able to realize this particular dream and have it (now) almost pay for itself.

It is ridiculous to say this is regrettable. It is the result of much hard work and the ability to learn a mass of new skills in person and online.

How could anything be wrong with that???

Making good quality videos is not easy. Good ones look easy but much much work goes into them.

Contrary to a lot of nonsense public opinion, One can have a passion that is also a commercial enterprise...People do it all the time. We call them entrepreneurs.

Regretfully - Tally Ho is a commercial enterprise disguised as a passion wooden boat project (although it is to many and what we want it to be). This is not good advice to someone who is not set up to do self promotion and kick start cash support. It is a fallacy to promote it to folks who have no idea of scale and effort. I may be incorrect about many things - but holding up Tally ho as a rare example of building a new boat using of skill, timing, kick starter buyins from patrons and youtube and pretending it is a rebuild is quite a leap.

[Ted Hoppe]

Tally-ho is a rebuild. There's nothing regretful about it. Nor is anything 'disguised' It's all pretty upfront

To say so is frankly ridiculous.
Just because he was clever enough to turn his passion into something that pays for itself via LOTS AND LOTS of hard work does not make it any less remarkable or worthy.
The only reason he is 'setup' is that he set himself up. BRAVO!

Should he be alone and desperately running out of funds and taking years and years before finally falling into financial ruin to make it more noble and romantic??
Hogwash!
It started simply and gained some momentum. Leo looks like he worked like a dog, was resourceful and was very clever in documenting the process.
Many many many people gain huge amounts of pleasure from his efforts both in restoration and documentation.
His energy , dedication and plain hard work has, as it often does, attracted much interested, financial and otherwise and he has been able to realize this particular dream and have it (now) almost pay for itself.

It is ridiculous to say this is regrettable. It is the result of much hard work and the ability to learn a mass of new skills in person and online.

How could anything be wrong with that???

Making good quality videos is not easy. Good ones look easy but much much work goes into them.

Contrary to a lot of nonsense public opinion, One can have a passion that is also a commercial enterprise...People do it all the time. We call them entrepreneurs.

PLEASE. It is you that are making ridiculous assertions about our degree of nativity and work to make it not appear as it is. This is not the Tally Ho you want to us to believe it is. You are quite aware this is not a rebuild but a reconstruction. If you can prove that boat over 20 percent of what it was materially then I will send you or them an additional 100 dollars. We all recognize it as a commercial venture with funding that comes from all over including folks who love wooden boats. As a Brit he has figured out how to work in the United States, make money and build a cool boat while training and entertaining others.

It does not take away what he is doing which is admirable or what he will have after he is done.

Which one of us hasn't taken on huge boat rebuilds, suffered from funding issues, worked like a dog, shared the experience with others and if we are lucky we have a boat we can use when we are done. I sure have. I guess you have too.

[WoodenJay]

So I have retraced a lot more information about this boat so far while I try to figure out the best course of action. She was built in Skaneateles, NY by Herman Lund and the Skaneateles Boat and Canoe Co in 1937 and was christened Nightcap. She is a one of one, Rhodes design #416. The next part is a bit of a mystery as she next turns up as the Windlassie I, but I only know that from the transfer registry. Then she made her residence in Cleveland, OH where she belonged to a lawyer. He named the boat Honorah after his late mother. It came to Buffalo and ended up at the Maritime Center where it underwent extensive work and restoration. From there, it was sold (or given, I can't figure that out yet) to a private party, who basically undid all of the restoration by either running her aground (I don't know why she would've been in the water with no mast), or she was dropped from—or on—her trailer. It appears as though the keel, which was securely attached in videos taken by the BMC, was knocked loose, and that there is a rather noticeable dent in the keel itself. My next step is to try and get into the bottom and see if either a.) bad-case scenario, the keelson was broken resulting in the gap between the hull and the keel, or b.) even worse-case scenario, the massive bolts anchoring the keel have been bent. Either way, it looks like the keel is going to have to come off :/

21366723_10155613305554780_8586283237763518503_o.jpg21457342_10155613305809780_7761206845938875288_o.jpg21457891_10155613305534780_1708304952364577353_o.jpg21368750_10155613305669780_2494049825175093802_o.jpg21427514_10155613305679780_342797738249890213_o.jpg

[WoodenJay]

29177291_10156140398594780_6763590725373263872_n.jpg29217096_10156140399009780_60895768604573696_n.jpg35078420_10156361300849780_7610116538758070272_n.jpg45108672_10156683604204780_8598777169453252608_n.jpg

[WoodenJay]

70426901_10157427314759780_1637752161897021440_n.jpg

After the damage, but before being left outside in Buffalo weather for several years... Someone apparently thought that a 3/4" bead of caulk was the solution to the keel separating from the hull...

[WoodenJay]

Then finally... the unfortunate now photos:

Attachment 126745Attachment 126746Attachment 126747Attachment 126748Attachment 126749

[WoodenJay]

There was a 2004 survey which valued her at $66,254.99, Over $53,000 was put into her between 1985 and 2005.

Here's the stats:
LOA:
34′ 0″
Beam:
7′ 9″
LWL:
23′ 4″
Draft:
5′ 3″
Design or Class:
Keel sloop
Former Name:
WINDLASSIE I
Home Port:
Cleveland, OH
Designer:
Philip L. Rhodes
Boat Type:
Lake One-Design class
Rig:
sloop
Gross Displacement:
9450
Sail Number:
10
Sail Area:
620
Number of Engines:
1
Engine Model:
Gray Sea Scout (I think this is now a Volvo Penta)
Fuel Type:
Gasoline
Builder Name:
Skaneateles Boats
Location Built:
Skaneateles NY
Year Built:
1937

[johngsandusky]

A shame she was damaged like that, still a beauty.
Thanks for the update.

[sp_clark]

Then finally... the unfortunate now photos: Attachment 126749

Those images don't appear for me, I get an error that the links are invalid.

I'm not really sure I want to see what this beautiful boat looks like now, but perhaps others may if only to share your discomfort.

[Ted Hoppe]

@woodenjay

Have you ever sailed boats like this?

I think you should locate some folks who have similar boats like this 1937 Rhode and go for a ride. They will be able to tell you what you are getting into.

there was a reason why theses boats fall into decline. These boats were only meant to last 20 years. It is our love and wallets that keeps them floating. The expenses you shared were in pre2005 dollars - lots of things have changed. Insurance companies and marinas see things differently too.

[heimlaga]

To me the project looks doable. The trailer is a huge perk as it allows you to move the boat on the cheap to and fro as needed during the rebuild process and save the repeated costs of cranes and cradles and professional boat movers.. I have seen way worse boats rebuilt to structurally sound and functional condition and in some cases even to look almost like new.

However this will require a significant amount of work and money. If you are up to it go ahead!
If you aren't up to it don't tell me later that i didn't warn you.

[sp_clark]

Have you ever sailed boats like this?

"In keeping with Herreshoff Manufacturing Company methods, the EP24 will be traditionally constructed upside down over molds with a white oak keel and steam bent frames. The hull will be double planked - as many HMCo. launches were - with a layer mahogany over cedar. The EP24 will feature a glued layup, a method that allows for maximum plank stability and keeps yearly maintenance to a minimum."

Quoted by the OP in another thread here. His question was about a new canoe he'd built, not a 70-year old derelict keelboat.
Much the same emotion applies to this thread's focus: times were different, technology wasn't available that we have now, labor was less costly and more widely available, those that could afford these boats were willing to walk away when the circumstances of their preservation deemed it necessary.

"High maintenance" has more than one application....

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

This looks quite practical. I notice that the decks seem to be GRP covered plywood.
That is extremely good news.

Sort the trailer out, get her covered, go from there.

If the ballast keel is lead, dropping it and replacing the bolts is no big deal (Rhodes
didn’t share LF Herreshoff’s eccentric ideas on lead keels afaik).

If it’s iron, it’s still not too hard.



I had a 1937 built boat with an off-set prop and a Volvo MD2 for 29 years. Ian’s description is accurate.

[Ian McColgin]

I advised two successive dreamers not to get into the Rhodes. They broke their hearts and budgets. It is a powerful and fast rig but, as noted above, after a couple of decades the stresses of the rig are too much for the hull unless you want to strip sheath the whole hull, as was done for Curlew as I recall.

That boat had a very odd worm steering gear. No like an Edson that just turns the rudder shaft. This unit had the whole worm gear assembly rotating.

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

Photo above shows an entirely normal tiller.

If the quoted dimensions are right, she has a rather narrow beam; I’d think the sail area could be a whole lot less than the figure quoted.

Looks like she was dropped.

[sp_clark]

Looks like she was dropped.

Those pics showing her rolled onto her port side, with keel on the shop floor, gave me no little pause.

Is that a usual practice for hull work? Isn't there some risk of distortion causing the kind of separation that would then see a thick gob of caulk run along the keel top where separation had become evident due to uneven leverage?

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

I’ve never seen that done before but a hull certainly ought to be able to stand it since a boat can easily go aground on a hard bottom and replicate that condition.

[Paul Pless]

I’ve never seen that done before but a hull certainly ought to be able to stand it since a boat can easily go aground on a hard bottom and replicate that condition.

would you wish to go to sea in a boat that couldn't take being careened gently on shore?

If the ballast keel is lead, dropping it and replacing the bolts is no big deal (Rhodes
didn’t share LF Herreshoff’s eccentric ideas on lead keels afaik).


If it’s iron, it’s still not too hard.

i doubt a rhodes racer/cruiser of this era was built with an iron keel
however, if she had truly been dropped it would be better for her to have been dropped upon an iron keel than a cast lead ballast keel

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

I agree with Paul.

It looks to me as if this boat has had plenty of work done, but was then dropped and put on one side due perhaps to the likely cost of repairs. The shape looks good - the sheer line runs fair and there’s no sign of transverse distortion. I think it all depends on the state of the keel and the floors.

[Ted Hoppe]

I am reminded of Angela. Sure would be nice to daysailer her; fixing her after knowing she has a history of being dropped is beyond my skill on a rapidly deprecating asset.

[Paul Pless]

I am reminded of Angela. Sure would be nice to daysailer her; fixing her after knowing she has a history of being dropped is beyond my skill on a rapidly deprecating asset.

ah but ted, her flaws are what create the illusion of attainability

[Bruce Brown]

Move to the Bilge.