Making wider plank stock

[Asgeir]

Bob Smalser and Gib Etheridge describe making wider planking stock by edge glueing in two very intersting threads:

http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...3-Plank-Widths

and

http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...rake-questions


This seems a very interesting technique for building dories and faerings…

Bob Smalser favours 8” stock and epoxy

Gib Etheridge uses strips and mentions he uses Titebond 3 on the scarphs but does not mention what adhesive he uses for the edge joints…

My question is whether planks / bottoms can be edge glued off the boat and then bent into shape without the glue joint cracking?

What adhesive would you use to edge glue off the boat:
-“Standard” Epoxy with properties similar to West System 105
- West System G-Flex Epoxy
- 3M™Marine Adhesive Sealant 5200
- Some other kind of Polyurethane adhesive
- Silyl Modified Polymer (like Bosktick Simson Construction adhesive)
- Something else...

[Jim Ledger]

My question is whether planks / bottoms can be edge glued off the boat and then bent into shape without the glue joint cracking?

Yes, they can. I do it all the time using standard 5/1 epoxy.

You can tooth the edges with a rasp if you like, and if appearance is secondary.

Jim

[wizbang 13]

Take it one step further and strip plank the whole freakin boat !

[Asgeir]

Yes, they can. I do it all the time using standard 5/1 epoxy.

You can tooth the edges with a rasp if you like, and if appearance is secondary.

Jim

Thanks Jim,


Using a rasp as a kind of toothing plane is a great tip.
Do you use the epoxy pure or do you add cotton flock?

[Peerie Maa]

I think that I would increase the glue area by tonguing and grooving the edges. Or copy the Egyptian shipwrights by using a biscuit jointer, with real wood biscuits.

[Jim Ledger]

I think that I would increase the glue area by tonguing and grooving the edges. Or copy the Egyptian shipwrights by using a biscuit jointer, with real wood biscuits.

There's no need to complicate things unnecessarily, Nick. It's been proven that a plain edge-to-edge butt joint is the strongest.

Jim

[Peerie Maa]

There's no need to complicate things unnecessarily, Nick. It's been proven that a plain edge-to-edge butt joint is the strongest.

Jim

OK.

Out of curiosity, for how long are they proven to last?
Strip plank uses bead and cove, is that no longer necessary?

[Jim Ledger]

OK.

Out of curiosity, for how long are they proven to last?
Strip plank uses bead and cove, is that no longer necessary?

I dunno, Nick, fifty years that I can attest to, probably more.

Those cove strips are more for alignment than anything else.

Jim

[Peerie Maa]

I dunno, Nick, fifty years that I can attest to, probably more.

Those cove strips are more for alignment than anything else.

Jim

50 years is good, some plywood does not last that long.

[heimlaga]

Ingvald and his son Rainer Vinberg, famous boatbuilders in Österhankmo glued up planking stock at least as early as the 1970-ies. Plain edge to edge glue joints with Resorcinol-Phenolic glue on spruce timber. They did it to save timber as one will need very wide stock to clinker plank very flared bows with little sheer curve as was the best shape for a planing hull. Instead they just glued an extra piece to increase the width of what was to become the forward end of each plank.
After thorough curing the planks were steam bent to shape.

Plenty of boats were built until Rainer lost most of his eyesight and had to retire in the mid 90-ies. Not one of them has come apart to my knowledge.

I don't think any other type of glue would stand up to it. Polurethane doesn't stand up well against boiling water and I have some doubts concerning epoxy.

[Peerie Maa]

I don't think any other type of glue would stand up to it. Polurethane doesn't stand up well against boiling water and I have some doubts concerning epoxy.

Resorcinol-Phenolic glue is the purple stuff in Water Boil Proof plywood.
Epoxy softens at high temperatures, that is how you back out screws that were epoxied in.

[wizbang 13]

The logical conclusion is to strip plank the whole freakin bote .

[Peerie Maa]

The logical conclusion is to strip plank the whole freakin bote .

This one?

[wizbang 13]

This one?

zactly. I’ll build four of them while you are waiting for the plank to dry

[Peerie Maa]

zactly. I’ll build four of them while you are waiting for the plank to dry

Really?
1/2" thick plank, two chines (clenched laps) a side on frames 3' apart?
Really?

[wizbang 13]

Yea but for the clenching laps the hell is that waste o time
I’m jus kidding nick . We’re talking though of using a little bit of epoxy to fake make a plank wider?
who the joke falling on
frames too doan need no stinking frames

[Paul Schweiss]

This one?

The Oselver requires 4 pcs of stock 2-1/2” x 14” x 5’ for the hewn garboard ends. The middle planks require 4 pieces 22”-24” wide x 12’ long. The sheer can be gotten out of 14” wide x 12’.
These were originally peasant craft, meaning Norwegian Pine was readily available in the area, and it still is.
Here in the Pacific Northwest, land of legendary timbers, this would be almost impossible to source today in Doug Fir, Alaska Cedar, Red Cedar, Tamarack, etc.
However, it would be possible to find 6/4 stock wide enough to resaw and glue back together to make that 2nd round of wide planking, it would take some patience and searching. But it would be spectacular to find 12” stock with flatter grain along one edge, resaw and glue the board back together on the edge and replicate the visual beauty of this incredible færing.
Finding a client willing to pay for all this search and work approaches the impossibilities Gandalf the Gray faced trying to put together the Fellowship of the Ring. I don’t have the coin to just build one for myself.
I have memories of the shavings on the shop floor from building 5 and 6 plank versions of many færings and of being in Alfred Søvik’s Oselver shop that fire the desire to shape one more of these exquisite craft.

[pcford]

Paul,
As you probably recall, I owned a three strake Oselver. The sheer planks were rotted; They were approximately 12 inches wide. I made new ones of red cedar which I got
from a backwoods sawmill out near Granite Falls. I doubt if backwoods sawmills exist anymore.
Marty Loken got the Oselver and from him it went to a guy in Port Townsend. It needed a fair amount of work but certainly had life left in it. Soon after the Port Townsend guy got it, he emailed me that he was going to paint it. No mention of repair. I assume that it no longer exists.