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Thread: Germany arrests

  1. #36
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    Default Re: Germany arrests

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Hoppe View Post
    No but we can look historically how they were installed.
    The world has moved on a bit since 823 AD.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: Germany arrests

    Quote Originally Posted by lupussonic View Post
    There are many many people here in Germany that are deeply dissatisfied with the post war Republik, I hear from people who attend seminars on the false constitution and general lack of freedoms. There is also a simmering wish to indulge in being proud of being German, a sentiment that has been denied an entire nation for a very long time; I think these organisations are symptom of that.
    ... people who attend seminars on the false constitution ...
    I try to understand, what does it mean?
    Gruß, Günter

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    Default Re: Germany arrests

    You are better placed to find out Gunter. I am just passing on what I hear from people.

    The point is not wether it is factual, the point is I hear it.

    A lot.

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    Default Re: Germany arrests

    https://www.isdglobal.org/explainers...ent-explainer/

    The Institute for Strategic Dialogue has written a brief introduction to the "Reichsburger movement," prompted exactly by the kinds of questions we've raised here on the thread.
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

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    Default Re: Germany arrests

    Quote Originally Posted by heimfried View Post
    I try to understand, what does it mean?
    From the BeeB report
    An estimated 50 men and women are said to have been part of the group, which allegedly plotted to overthrow the republic and replace it with a new state modelled on the Germany of 1871
    They don't like the current constitution of the German State, and want to replace it, hence claiming the current constitution to be "false"
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: Germany arrests

    Uh, nationalism raising it's ugly head again, and again…………………… Even in Aus. a section of the RW still promote thatmand at one early stage actually proposed it,
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bunyip_aristocracy

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    Default Re: Germany arrests

    Quote Originally Posted by TomF View Post
    Sure. The "weak" monarchical powers of the Westminster Parliamentary version of Constitutional Monarchy date to 1689. Which essentially confirmed that Parliament is supreme, and within it, the elected House of Commons.
    It is quite well established that parliamentary systems are much better able to get stuff done than are presidential systems like the US.

    The US constitution has a number of built-in veto points that were intended to frustrate the will of the majority, and protect our oligarchy.

    That is why, among other things, y'all have Med For All and we do not.

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    Default Re: Germany arrests

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    The world has moved on a bit since 823 AD.
    Ahem...

    Screen Shot 2022-12-07 at 12.22.23 PM.jpg

    Oliver Cromwell was best known for being Lord Protector of the Commonwealth of England Scotland and Ireland after the defeat of King Charles I in the Civil War. He was one of the main signatories on Charles I's death warrant. After the execution of King Charles I, Cromwell led the Commonwealth of England.
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  9. #44
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    Default Re: Germany arrests

    Errm
    EGBERT 827 – 839
    Egbert (Ecgherht) was the first monarch to establish a stable and extensive rule over all of Anglo-Saxon England. After returning from exile at the court of Charlemagne in 802, he regained his kingdom of Wessex. Following his conquest of Mercia in 827, he controlled all of England south of the Humber. After further victories in Northumberland and North Wales, he is recognised by the title Bretwalda (Anglo-Saxon, “ruler of the British”). A year before he died aged almost 70, he defeated a combined force of Danes and Cornish at Hingston Down in Cornwall. He is buried at Winchester in Hampshire.
    Dont start a p!$$!ng contest about British history with a Brit.

    P.S. Cromwell had sod all to do with Constitutional Monarchy, that came with William and Mary, after the country dumped the Stuarts over religion.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_of_Rights_1689
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    Default Re: Germany arrests

    ^ funny how we share the same direct history but not allowed to claim it.

    the outcome of this action and the aftermath is why we sit under 2 government.
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    Default Re: Germany arrests

    I will try to say some things about this. Problem is my poor English. This matter is a difficult one and it often depends on a linguistic nuance if a statement is in a way understood as it was meant.

    To start I will talk about "beeing proud". I never ever said "I'm proud to be a German." There are two reasons for not doing this. Firstly - in my thinking - the real good reason for beeing proud is an own personal achievement or accomplishment. Is it my merit to be born as a German? Secondly - the people which are mostly saying this do this for the wrong reasons. They often deny the crimes and horrors of the Nazi regime to feel able to be proud.

    On the contrary it is to me a real achievement to realise the cruel past, the war of annihilation, robbery and murder and accept that this was caused by the own people and deal with it. And in this Germany is better than other counties I know about. That schould be the groundwork to avoid any possibilities doing this again and therefore could be a reason to be proud of.
    Gruß, Günter

  12. #47
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    Default Re: Germany arrests

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Hoppe View Post
    ^ funny how we share the same direct history but not allowed to claim it.

    the outcome of this action and the aftermath is why we sit under 2 government.
    Not really, the action and its aftermath was that the American colonies, like the Indian subcontinent, were commercial enterprises, with investments to be serviced. Now, it is true that the English Parliament, listening to the vested interests, screwed it up. According to one biographer, George was sympathetic, but being a constitutional monarch allowed himself to be overruled by parliament.
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    Default Re: Germany arrests

    Quote Originally Posted by heimfried View Post
    I will try to say some things about this. Problem is my poor English. This matter is a difficult one and it often depends on a linguistic nuance if a statement is in a way understood as it was meant.

    To start I will talk about "beeing proud". I never ever said "I'm proud to be a German." There are two reasons for not doing this. Firstly - in my thinking - the real good reason for beeing proud is an own personal achievement or accomplishment. Is it my merit to be born as a German? Secondly - the people which are mostly saying this do this for the wrong reasons. They often deny the crimes and horrors of the Nazi regime to feel able to be proud.

    On the contrary it is to me a real achievement to realise the cruel past, the war of annihilation, robbery and murder and accept that this was caused by the own people and deal with it. And in this Germany is better than other counties I know about. That schould be the groundwork to avoid any possibilities doing this again and therefore could be a reason to be proud of.
    Thanks Gunter, is having to carry the memory of the war all the time hard - emotionally? Keeping them in focus all the time. I imagine for some this must be difficult.
    It's all fun and games until Darth Vader comes.

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    Default Re: Germany arrests

    Gunter, your English is amazing, hab keine angst.

    I am talking about German National pride. You are 100% correct that modern Germany is a great country in the world of nations. Merkel took in more refugees from Syria and other nations as a national duty, far exceeding other EU nations. This is also true of people coming from Ukraine. Here we find very forward thinking environmental laws, Germany is a leader in renewable energy also. It has strict employment laws that protect the workers and many other good things are found here. That is not in contention.

    What we are talking about (I think) is the right or justification to love Germany if you are a German. This has been verboten for many for a very long time; Germany was not even allowed to grow a reasonable army until February 2022 floowing the invasion of Ukraine. Yes, Oktoberfest and lederhosen are all good.. but what lies beneath? What is the German national identity of 2022, in terms of how it thinks about itself? Is it still verboten to be a German who is proud of their nation?

    My take on the Reichsburger movement was that they refer back to the line of kings, the 'true' line of German rulers who were deposed by the leaders of the UK, France and USA in 1946.

    I am not a historical scholar but I think the constitution imposed on Germany post WWII was highly restrictive and it more or less still stands. I also believe that it only recently finished punitive payments for the war, some 70 years later. What can you say about that?

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    Default Re: Germany arrests

    Quote Originally Posted by heimfried View Post
    I will try to say some things about this. Problem is my poor English. This matter is a difficult one and it often depends on a linguistic nuance if a statement is in a way understood as it was meant.

    To start I will talk about "beeing proud". I never ever said "I'm proud to be a German." There are two reasons for not doing this. Firstly - in my thinking - the real good reason for beeing proud is an own personal achievement or accomplishment. Is it my merit to be born as a German? Secondly - the people which are mostly saying this do this for the wrong reasons. They often deny the crimes and horrors of the Nazi regime to feel able to be proud.

    On the contrary it is to me a real achievement to realise the cruel past, the war of annihilation, robbery and murder and accept that this was caused by the own people and deal with it. And in this Germany is better than other counties I know about. That schould be the groundwork to avoid any possibilities doing this again and therefore could be a reason to be proud of.
    That was well said Günter. I really like Germany the way it is now, I like the people. Although they carry the burden of WWII the seem to succeed in preventing this happening again. That's a result you can be proud of.

    The event of today may be shocking, but with this population of Germans it was doomed to fail
    Last edited by dutchpp; 12-07-2022 at 05:33 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by heimfried View Post
    To start I will talk about "beeing proud". I never ever said "I'm proud to be a German." There are two reasons for not doing this. Firstly - in my thinking - the real good reason for beeing proud is an own personal achievement or accomplishment. Is it my merit to be born as a German?
    Just so. I had no say in where I was born, so why should I take pride in it?

    I cannot respect people who do this:


    Can they not remember what country they live in, but need a daily reminder?

    I can take pride in the UK passing equality laws, making hate speech a crime and so on.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    Not really, the action and its aftermath was that the American colonies, like the Indian subcontinent, were commercial enterprises, with investments to be serviced. Now, it is true that the English Parliament, listening to the vested interests, screwed it up. According to one biographer, George was sympathetic, but being a constitutional monarch allowed himself to be overruled by parliament.
    What historically childish dribble written by an Englishman with British history Stockholm syndrome.

    I'll start your education.

    Last edited by Ted Hoppe; 12-07-2022 at 07:27 PM.
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    Default Re: Germany arrests

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    No more 'Kings'? donald tried his best and may have succeeded.
    He even had a Prince and Princess and not a few Dukes and Lords waiting in the wings.
    Oh he may not have used those terms but………………….

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    Default Re: Germany arrests



    Torn from a world of tyrants beneath this Western sky
    We formed a new dominion, a land of liberty!
    The world shall own we're masters here,
    then hasten on the day!
    Huzzah, huzzah, huzzah, huzzah, for free Americay!
    Last edited by Ted Hoppe; 12-07-2022 at 07:37 PM.
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    Default Re: Germany arrests

    Well you do have a deal of dis-united states on the continent. Freedom of some sort I guess for some people.

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    Default Re: Germany arrests

    Quote Originally Posted by skuthorp View Post
    Well you do have a deal of dis-united states on the continent. Freedom of some sort I guess for some people.
    Perfect, no. Getting rid of royalty and title families are good starts.



    One thing is for certain, I do not have to bow to anyone.
    Last edited by Ted Hoppe; 12-08-2022 at 01:52 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Hoppe View Post
    What historically childish dribble written by an Englishman with British history Stockholm syndrome.
    Not. It's a fairly conscientious and conservative exposition of the historical facts. The colonies were conceived and paid for as commercial endeavors. That paradigm failed to take account of the facts on the ground, but hey. It was the era of mercantilism. The American revolution wasn't aimed at overturning mercantilism. America then and since has made the same errors for the same reasons.

    The doctrines of human rights were developed largely at the time as a reaction to the situation -- developed from "the rights of Englishmen". Many colonists were as resistant as the English (and still are) and still are, for the same reasons.

    Peerie Maa is not over or under-stating anything -- at least in this post!
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    Default Re: Germany arrests

    For what I perceive, in Britain but also in the US, many people will argue "Right or wrong, it's my country" when their country does something which is not ethically correct. Again, perception - there was (and is) a taboo around this attitude in post WWII Germany. This taboo is justified. The taboo went further - the concept of loving the own country was (and is) also under suspicion. This has left people who have a tendency for such emotions isolated by most of the political spectrum. Only the far right has offered them a political home. This may or may not explain to a degree, why the far right has grown politically in the last years.

    Again - my perception - most of the people who found their political home in the far right are probably decent people. With a few nutcases on top who take advantage of their feelings for their home country.

    Then, you have a generation change. Already for my generation, it is difficult to accept that we are personally bad just because the generation of our grandparents started WWII. For the even younger generations, this will likely apply even more.

    There is likely a lot of additional stuff - people with a tendency of being afraid of changes (roughly half of the population are whereas the other half has a tendency of welcoming changes), ...

    Anyway - they caught a group of super-nutcases now which is good. To eliminate the root cause, some cultural changes may be needed to allow younger Germans to like their home without immediately pushing them into the far right political spectrum. One answer has been to replace the concept of the home country by the concept or Europe. To have young people visit other countries in Europe, complete school classes spending a few weeks in another country, going to school there, the children living in local families during this time. It might be time to refresh such initiatives. The most dangerous worldview is the worldview of those have not viewed the world. (Alexander von Humboldt)

    My two cents and I am not an expert on this stuff.
    Last edited by Henning 4148; 12-08-2022 at 06:04 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by heimfried View Post
    To start I will talk about "beeing proud". I never ever said "I'm proud to be a German." .
    Not even that time the German team stomped all over Brazil in the world cup ??

    Come on now .. .

    Humor alert . .

    Actually, I cannot tell you how kind and helpful the German people were to me, even knowing I was part of the occupying forces (1969-1971).

    Germany has produced any number of great humanitarians and great minds.

    You should be proud - and you can do that without being crazy nationalistic.

    Keep up the great work !!
    Last edited by sandtown; 12-08-2022 at 02:14 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Osborne Russell View Post
    Not. It's a fairly conscientious and conservative exposition of the historical facts. The colonies were conceived and paid for as commercial endeavors. That paradigm failed to take account of the facts on the ground, but hey. It was the era of mercantilism. The American revolution wasn't aimed at overturning mercantilism. America then and since has made the same errors for the same reasons.

    The doctrines of human rights were developed largely at the time as a reaction to the situation -- developed from "the rights of Englishmen". Many colonists were as resistant as the English (and still are) and still are, for the same reasons.

    Peerie Maa is not over or under-stating anything -- at least in this post!
    What a bunch of justified blowhard British historical malarky.

    I am not a royalist; yet i think i understand our shared history as well as he does. Every single human meaningful endeavor has been a commercial enterprise; just as i understood how these commercial trading companies which were given parcels of land, how they worked and the monopolies they are meant to deliver to supporters of monarchies. Given some understanding of rights of man were written by Lock, it took a revolutionary turn for the radical British Americans to quit this nonsense of divine right of kings.

    As Orwell wrote - Some animals are more equal than others. It continues to be so were ever there is a commercial enterprise and where status and control is determined.

    Currently England is facing an internal conflict struggling to figure out if Royalty has a place in modern society. From what i read, the Royals and their supporters in Buckingham palace still struggle with their family marrying people of color or lacking titled status.
    Last edited by Ted Hoppe; 12-08-2022 at 02:23 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Hoppe View Post
    Currently England is facing an internal conflict struggling to figure out if Royalty has a place in modern society. From what i read, the Royals and their supporters in Buckingham palace still struggle with their family marrying people of color.
    But wait, there is more !! The royals are descended from a warrior society that used to hunt folks like us for sport.

    They deserve zero high office, honors, estates, salaries, tax bennies, or deference of any sort because of their lineage.

    Quite the contrary

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Hoppe View Post
    What a bunch of justified blowhard British historical malarky.

    Currently England is facing an internal conflict struggling to figure out if Royalty has a place in modern society. From what i read, the Royals and their supporters in Buckingham palace still struggle with their family marrying people of color or lacking titled status.
    If you are talking about the Harry and Megan circus. That is completely generated by her to make her name and a lot of money. Apperently, several of the Palace staff have asked to be released from their NDAs to straighten out some of her 'stories'.
    Plenty of untitled spouses in the RF.

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    Default Re: Germany arrests

    The problem we have to face in Europe doesn’t come from these unsignificant stupid neo-nazi groups.
    It comes from our governments who are unable to be credible and efficient in managing the real concerns about energy independance, increazing violence and related uncontroled immigration.
    This lead more and more people to vote for far right representatives.
    See what happened in Italy and France.
    Not to speak about corruption ...
    Last edited by Rapelapente; 12-08-2022 at 03:18 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sandtown View Post
    But wait, there is more !! The royals are descended from a warrior society that used to hunt folks like us for sport.
    This is the second time that I have read this cowflop on here. What sort of person are you to be hunted for sport, Mr Anonymous
    Basic Information

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    Tell us:
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    Justify that statement with linked sources or STFU.
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    Regarding the allegedly false constitution.
    This is pure nonsense. The reason for not calling it "constitution" but "Grundgesetz" (Basic Law) was simply to express the believe that it schould be only a temporary constitution (viewing at a future re-unification of Germany). While (1948 to 1949) under the watch of the three Western Surprime Commanders and also in need of their approvement, the Grundgesetz was worked out and formulated by German politicians of the "Parlamentarischer Rat". Its members were elected by the parliaments of the Länder (States) and the Grundgesetz was then approved by all the West German Länderparlamente exept Bavaria.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parlamentarischer_Rat

    To me the Grundgesetz in its combination with the "Bundesverfassungsgericht" (federal constitutional court) is a very good basis for a functionally state. Our politicians don't have the possibillity to move some goal posts which Trump did and Johnson did. Here is not a politisation of the courts like in the USA (stuff "own" judges in the courts). And the idea that the Bundestag would have a "leader", send from government, and the government is in charge to tell the parlamentarians what points they are allowed to discuss and what is not to discuss, as I saw in the UK commons, is very very strange to me.

    In Germany is only the executive branch called Regierung (government) not the Rechtsprechung (judicative) nor the Gesetzgeber (legislative). As I understand in the US the judges are considered part of the government.
    Last edited by heimfried; 12-08-2022 at 06:52 AM.
    Gruß, Günter

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    Riddled with errors.
    See comments in red.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Hoppe View Post
    What a bunch of justified blowhard British historical malarky.

    I am not a royalist; yet i think i understand our shared history as well as he does. Every single human meaningful endeavor has been a commercial enterprise; just as i understood how these commercial trading companies which were given parcels of land, how they worked and the monopolies they are meant to deliver to supporters of monarchies. Blinkered by your prejudice. The financiers backing the colonies were no more bothered about our form of government than Musk, Bezos or Gates are bothered about yours, they simply worked within the status quo. Given some understanding of rights of man were written by Lock, it took a revolutionary turn for the radical British Americans to quit this nonsense of divine right of kings. I already told you, Divine Right of Kings went out the window in 1689.

    As Orwell wrote - Some animals are more equal than others. It continues to be so were ever there is a commercial enterprise and where status and control is determined.

    Currently England is facing an internal conflict struggling to figure out if Royalty has a place in modern society. Not so much. There are some republicans, but most of us understand that a constitutional monarchy works well, and adds value to the UK. The latest poll shows 67% in favour of retaining the monarchy, more than half of those 30% will be don't knows. From what i read, the Royals and their supporters in Buckingham palace still struggle with their family marrying people of color or lacking titled status. The establishment within the Royal Households are notorious for being reactionary, and a century out of date. Look at the way they screwed up Princess Margarets life. However, Prince Philip was the last "Blue Blood" that married into our Royal Family, and that was a love match. All the current two generations are wedded to "Commoners".
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    Riddled with errors.
    See comments in red.
    Not errors but a different point of view.

    It seems things never change.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Hoppe View Post
    No but we can look historically how they were installed.
    It is said that if there is voting, it's a democracy. There is voting in the UK.
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    Quote Originally Posted by heimfried View Post
    Regarding the allegedly false constitution . . .
    It was the act of the German people through their delegates, right? Seems like a consitution in every sense but the name, as you explain. The name was avoided so as to foreclose any hint that the people were ratifying the splitting of the country; to re-affirm their claim to the nation as they defined it. How does that make the constitution "false"?
    If Russia wins, there will be no Ukraine; if Ukraine wins, there will be a new Russia.

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