Think I need to deal with this?

[Garret]

Yeah OK smartarse I just thought it was better idea than dragging it onto a burn pile or letting the bugs turn it into mulch. I'll keep carving bits of ridiculously hard local hardwood and cursing Americans with their fancy basswood and cottonwood bark JayInOz

Gotta have some part of me that's smart Jay. I apologize - I really was surprised at what it goes for & I appreciate your pointing it out.

[Garret]

Many trees hollow out for different reasons. Check for funal brackets in the autumn and take photos if you find any; post them here. For the sake of not disrupting the natural cycle, supporting wildlife and realising your place in it all, suffer the inconvenience of parking your trailer in a different spot? You could do some great wildlife camera videos with a known feeding spot like that. I often leave standing dead or dying trees for the insects and their predators. God knows we have done enough to decimate their territory with our chemical imperative.

Not sure what funal brackets are? Google returned nothing.

To put the trailer in a different place that would be deemed acceptable (by the powers that be) I'd have to cut at least a half dozen healthy trees. This is why I asked about cutting it above the hollowed out section by a couple of feet. That I could do.

Also note that there are thousands of trees close to this one & I see/hear woodpeckers in many of them.

ETA: By thousands of trees, I mean a stretch roughly 1/2 mile by 1000 ft - 100% 50 year old maple, beech, birch (white & yellow), basswood, and a few hemlock & pines. Some of the white birch in particular have many woodpecker holes in 'em. If this tree were to fall naturally it'd also damage some maples that are 30-36" at the butt.

[John B]

Certainly a dilemma. We border a bird sanctuary but in a geographical sense we're actually part of it since there's no fence ,and I'm sure our kiwi go over there for some ratite action, and theirs over here. So I'm very aware and conscious of what we do and when we do it. In fact the whole clearing out of the noxious tree species here is to get the place back to a reasonable balance and with more food from native trees and shrubs etc for the various birds that are around.
It brings a certain ' must be done ' ruthlessness to our strategy . If its dangerous it has to go sooner than later, if you want the ( in our case) native species to grow and thrive the toxic stuff has to go sooner than later. So we plan and do everything possible within reason to fell while mitigating damage, protecting the really valuable stuff might mean a common but still native type will be lost, but thats the cost the previous owners chose to ignore by letting these things get out of control.
It seems to me( from what the very capable Garret has said) that this particular tree should go.

Its stormy again here, how many times have I looked at my dead' Heron 'tree today because of this thread...

[Garret]

Thanks for your kind words John - but I'd really like to know if the birds might return to a cut off above the hole version of the tree. I have no problem with leaving an 8-9 foot "stump".

I know I could ask the woodpeckers, but it's more fun to ask the peckerheads...

[Canoeyawl]

"Trees come and go. When one dies, the property owner’s first inclination is to cut it down —all the way down to the ground.But chances are a woodpecker in your neighborhood is looking for a dead tree to create a nest to raise its young.Woodpeckers prefer a near-dead or already dead tree because the excavating is easier than on live trees. They and many other bird species rely on dead trees for nesting, storing food, roosting and resting. For a nest, the woodpecker creates an upside down L-shaped chamber with entrance
Sometimes a dead tree near a house might cause a problem or trigger worries about toppling over. Consider removing just part of the tree—for example, lop off the top portion to reduce wind resistance. If all of part a tree has to be cut, place the dead portion at another location where wildlife can take advantage of it. Once the woodpecker has raised its young and left the cavity, songbirds will be more than happy to move in. So leaving dead trees on your property is helpful to all types of birds."

https://travisaudubon.org/uncategori...to-woodpeckers

[Canoeyawl]

From U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service:
"Almost all birds native to the United States, including their nests and eggs, are protected by a federal law that has been in place since 1918. The Migratory Bird Treaty Act protects more than a thousand species of birds, including woodpeckers. Don’t let the name fool you though, protection is not limited to only individual birds or species that migrate.
With this huge group of protected birds, and varying legal methods for handling unwanted bird activity on your property, you may feel overwhelmed. If you have woodpecker activity at your home that you feel needs to be addressed, we can help. Find your local Migratory Birds Program contact to connect with one of our wildlife professionals who will help you assess the situation and find legal solutions."
More :
"Trees come and go. When one dies, the property owner’s first inclination is to cut it down —all the way down to the ground.But chances are a woodpecker in your neighborhood is looking for a dead tree to create a nest to raise its young.Woodpeckers prefer a near-dead or already dead tree because the excavating is easier than on live trees. They and many other bird species rely on dead trees for nesting, storing food, roosting and resting. For a nest, the woodpecker creates an upside down L-shaped chamber with entrance
Sometimes a dead tree near a house might cause a problem or trigger worries about toppling over. Consider removing just part of the tree—for example, lop off the top portion to reduce wind resistance. If all of part a tree has to be cut, place the dead portion at another location where wildlife can take advantage of it. Once the woodpecker has raised its young and left the cavity, songbirds will be more than happy to move in. So leaving dead trees on your property is helpful to all types of birds."

https://travisaudubon.org/uncategori...to-woodpeckers


It is never a good idea to tamper with a woodpecker’s pre-built nest, especially given that woodpeckers are protected in the US, and that – these birds take weeks out of their life to drill into very specific spots! It’s a laborious process, and woodpeckers know best.

https://wildyards.com/woodpecker-nests/

[Canoeyawl]

My opinion:
The decline of bird populations today are significant, and very noticeable to me who came of age during the Silent Spring.
Bird populations are seriously threatened and it is painful to observe this destruction first hand.
The inconvenience of moving a trailer a few feet is not equitable with the destruction of that prime habitat.

53% population loss to eastern forest bird species but I fear the truth is much worse than that.

"The study found that population decline was not limited to a few species but a wide range of species across every biome (a large naturally occurring community of flora and fauna occupying a major habitat). Population loss in each biome ranged from Grassland bird populations suffering the greatest loss at 53 percent to eastern forest birds with the lowest loss at 17 percent. Researchers also found that common birds from just 12 families, such as blackbirds, sparrows and finches, account for over 90 percent—or over 2.5 billion birds—of total population decline. Experts believe that habitat loss due to agricultural development and intensification is most likely the driving factor."
https://emagazine.com/bird-population-declines/

[Ron Williamson]

You could put a semi permanent safety line on it to prevent it from falling in a bad direction(the trailer)
Leaving a stub is a cool idea.
The cutting from a bucket or scaffold ,not so much.

If I needed to,I would probably rig a pull rope to a turning block anchored low on a big tree in a happy direction. Then led to your truck (placed not far from the scaffold and pointed toward the nearest hospital)

Make a shallow wedge(less than a 1/3 dia.) cut
Wedges handy,make a shallowish back cut leaving maybe 3-4" of hinge.
Drive wedges
Climb down
Get in truck and pull tree down with the truck as you are headed out the laneway.
R

[Jimmy W]

I doubt that is a nest hole. I suspect it is just feeding activity. If you worry about cutting it above the hollow, I would just cut it down low and leave the hollow part where they could feed on it on the ground. I do have a number of standing dead snags on this property for the birds in places where they won't hurt anything if they fall.

[skuthorp]

Step One: Move trailer.
Step Two: Hire it done.
Take pictures, since, by following above steps, you will survive the procedure to post them here.

Yes. And cut it above the nest hollow if possible. I have experience, and a close shave with a 60ft hollow eucalyptus. Bottom 40ft was hollow. Only an inch or so of live wood round the drum, and when I cut into it as I expected the whole hollow structure of the tree collapsed but I was well out of the way because I knew that would happen. I should have paid for a professional with a tower, such trees are unpredictable

[lupussonic]

Not sure what funal brackets are? Google returned nothing.

Fungal. My bad.

[Garret]

Fungal. My bad.

Duh - I shoulda figured that out. Yes, there are some on the tree & others.

[lupussonic]

Some photos would help decide if it is sacrophytic (eats live trees) or saprophytic (eats dead wood).

Either way that is a large structural weakness.

[Garret]

Some photos would help decide if it is sacrophytic (eats live trees) or saprophytic (eats dead wood).

Either way that is a large structural weakness.

I just looked at it. Their aren't any on this tree, but some on another basswood ~100 ft. away. The structural weakness is my main concern - hence my posting. Just trying to figure out a safe way to cut the tree (preferably above the hollowed section) - but I haven't yet. I've never hired a tree surgeon before & am a "I can do this person" - but discretion might be the better part here. Even if I only have the tree surgeon drop it, I'm still talking a chunk of money..

[LeeG]

I like the idea of moving the trailer then set up trail cam facing the tree, start a youtube channel with appropriate music and quotations. After a decade your channel is earning income and can pay for further tree work.

[lupussonic]

If you are not an arborist, do not attempt to climb it. That includes ladders.

If you are handy with a rope and saws, you could throw a lightweight messenger line up around a good solid fork or branch, then haul up a heavy NYLON (elastic..no steel cables please) bull rope, tied with a looped bowline so when you pull on the end it slides up and snatches tight. Attach the other end of your truck TOWING HITCH, well out of fell range. Saw an exploratory vertical stab cut at chest height to ascertain its rot extent at the base. Pending that, adjust the ratio of your nice wide angle mouth cut in the fell direction. Make sure you have a clear and predetermined escpape route sans tripping hazards. Have a cant hook, wedges and hammer ready. Put a little tension on it with your truck. Come back and make the back cut.. leave as soon as it is going.. chainbrake before you make a step.

If it does not go.. do NOT cut through the hinge. Ever. Walk around the tree NEVER going in it's fell quadrant to your truck and pull it over.

Rotted trees need a fatter hinge, maybe 30 - 40% of diameter as there is less wood to guide it over.

Also, I am NOT responsible for you damn fool notions, nor that you went ahead and took advice from some dude on the internet.

Sign here.............................................. ........

Best of luck!

Martin.

[lupussonic]

Seriously, if the plees for habitat are falling on deaf ears, fell it at ground level Garret, do not climb it to make the cut above the hollow. There's a tonne of 'do it' kind of guys on youtube that will never live it down.

What you gonna say when they walk in your hospital room? I mean that with respect, but seriously.

Take care.

[Paul Pless]

That includes ladders.

<snort>

[lupussonic]

You know nothing young Luke.

[Paul Pless]

i've climbed a ladder once to cut a tree
and to increase the level of stupid the ladder was in my front end loader
and just to take things up another notch, katherine was driving the tractor!

it's been a long time since i pulled that stunt
i will never do so again

the <snort> was a joke by the way

a good friend of mine was hurt badly and left in the tree after trying to top the tree from a ladder
his sage advice on the subject, "have you ever once seen a pro arborist have a ladder on his truck?"

[lupussonic]

Good story..! Got admire your spirit..

I used to have a 40 foot ladder on my truck.. but was never on it for more than 30 seconds until I clipped in, it was taken away and could breathe again.

[Frost]

Given that the tree has such a large cavity, could you burn it. Good time of year for it, being damp and rainy and it'll snow sometime. I burned a stump in my yard last year. Drilled a bunch of holes in it and each day for a week I'd go pour some kerosene in the holes. Each day the holes were thirsty for more. Put a bagfull of sawdust on it and lots of shop kindling and lit it up. Threw some cord wood on it as needed. Worked pretty well. You could fill the cavity along the same lines. You're just looking to get it weak enough to fall, hopefully winched in the direction you want. I got a burn permit and called the local fire cheif the day I chose to do it. Kind of a Red Green approach, I mean what could possibly go wrong?

[JayInOz]

The trouble with burning a tree down is that you lose control over which way it will go and it might be on the ground and job done in an hour or it might take a day and a half, during which time it is dangerous. I never use ropes to pull a tree. I use long props against the back of them. Put your ladder against the back of the tree and climb up and tie a few laps of rope around the tree to make a collar. Get rid of the ladder. Cut two long props or use lengths of pipe and shove them under the collar and jam the other ends into the dirt. One long prop will stop the tree falling backwards. Two gives you control of direction of fall. Deep undercut on the side where you want it to go. Back cut and wedges and keep thumping the bases of your props forward to keep the pressure on. The biggest single tree cutting job I did was on my own place up north- four and a half kilometres of fenceline, most of it through tall heavy timber. I'm still here JayInOz

[Garret]

Hi Martin -

I will not be doing any climbing. My harness is too old, as am I...

I have 150 ft. of 3/4 inch nylon (actually 2 150' sections) that is my "tree guiding" rope & will attach it to my 40HP tractor - it's heavier than the truck. No way would I use cable unless it were in a skidder - which I no longer own. Besides 5/8" cable is a bit of overkill for this!

While I don't have arborist experience, I've cut a lot of trees over the years & understand how the hinge works. This is also a situation that wants wedges.

I appreciate the guidance from some dude on the internet & will hold you (& others on the forum) harmless.

In addition - I've further examined the holes & they are definitely not nests, so I'm most likely to cut below the holes as it's safer. I do appreciate habitat, but 1) there's lots more very nearby & 2) a good friend was crushed by being cocky around a widowmaker (hung up 20" beech) - so that's made me even more careful.

[Garret]

Given that the tree has such a large cavity, could you burn it. Good time of year for it, being damp and rainy and it'll snow sometime. I burned a stump in my yard last year. Drilled a bunch of holes in it and each day for a week I'd go pour some kerosene in the holes. Each day the holes were thirsty for more. Put a bagfull of sawdust on it and lots of shop kindling and lit it up. Threw some cord wood on it as needed. Worked pretty well. You could fill the cavity along the same lines. You're just looking to get it weak enough to fall, hopefully winched in the direction you want. I got a burn permit and called the local fire cheif the day I chose to do it. Kind of a Red Green approach, I mean what could possibly go wrong?

Please see my tagline...

[LeeG]

What you gonna say when they walk in your hospital room? I mean that with respect, but seriously.

Take care.

That internal dialog works. How embarrassed will I be if….

[lupussonic]

It kept me alive for 30 years or so on the trees, and ever since in industrial climbing.

In all that time I only ever pinged one phone line, and that was because I was watching the traffic and forgot it was there.

oh, and several fences, but they don't count really.

[John B]

Its another day and I still see it the same way. It looks like it has to go and there are flags, I wouldn't get elevated to cut this thing at 9 ft when its safe and looking straightforward at the base.
And this is from someone who has taken extreme measures to protect existing tree and wildlife species on our property.
No duck shall be harmed.....

[timber_cruiser]

Garret, If you decide to take this tree down yourself, please be extra careful. This looks dangerous to me, it has such a rotten hollow truck it could slab or barber chair.

A few things to consider...

Use a very sharp and well tuned saw, do not screw around with anything that is not in top mechanical condition. Once you start to cut this, you have to be prepared to finish the last cut and move away quickly.

Have your escape route(s) planned and cleared.

Have a spotter at a safe distance who can watch the top of the tree and alert you to things that you may not be able to see.

Keep a sharp eye out for loose branches or other high debris that may come down on you (this has almost killed me more than once).

take care...

[timber_cruiser]

Garret,

Sorry, one more thing that makes the hair on the back of my neck stand up...

Look at that larger carved hole, does it have a longer extended seam/crack that runs vertically above the hole? I think this will likely slab back to the left of your last photo.

You do not want to be standing anywhere aft of this area if you decide to take this with a chain saw.

[Garret]

I always keep my saw in top shape & touch up the chain every tankful - not to brag, but I can put a better edge on a chain than a shop ground one with a file. I also always plan an easy/clear escape route. Some of my fastest acceleration has been when cutting a tree.

No crack I can see that goes below the bark, but will carefully check it.

[gypsie]

I can see the models in the bottom section.
Just there above the hollow, I'm sure there's guitars there.
And without question, toward the top there, thems violins for sher.

[Paul Pless]

I always keep my saw in top shape & touch up the chain every tankful - not to brag, but I can put a better edge on a chain than a shop ground one with a file. I also always plan an easy/clear escape route. Some of my fastest acceleration has been when cutting a tree.

[Rumars]

Why go near it with a saw at all when there are better alternatives. Buy yourself a can of black powder and some yards of visco fuse, enjoy.

[lupussonic]

One trick that is easy and quick that you might consider... Put three truck straps around the tree really tight up the first ten feet above your mouth cut. Rotten trees can disintegrate and pile drive straight down if the structure is really punky, after the back cut has started. The truck straps help it remain whole and unlikely to barber chair until the back cut is near enough the hinge for it to go over.

Just a thought.. good luck and let us know how it went.