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Thread: Why or why can't we get a 6" rule that works for everybody?

  1. #36
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    Default Re: Why or why can't we get a 6" rule that works for everybody?

    Not sure what is meant by "End Graduations" - graduations which run all the way to the ends, or graduations sideways across the ends.

    I've a slew of these - and they work quite well.
    SixInch.jpg
    I'd much rather lay in my bunk all freakin day lookin at Youtube videos .

  2. #37
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    Default Re: Why or why can't we get a 6" rule that works for everybody?

    That's a nice one, above.
    End grads are graduations on the very end of the rule...so you could lay the straightedge on a table and say measure the height of something off the table without holding the rule on it's end.
    Clinton B. Chase
    Portland, Maine

    http://tinyurl.com/myboats

  3. #38
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Clinton B Chase View Post
    That's a nice one, above.
    End grads are graduations on the very end of the rule...so you could lay the straightedge on a table and say measure the height of something off the table without holding the rule on it's end.

    That's what a 6-inch dial or digital caliper is for. It can do outside measurement, inside measurement and depth/thickness. They run $25 to $50 or so. Or you can go big bucks and get a Starret, Mitutoyo, or Browne+Sharpe.

    But even the cheap ones are good to +/- 0.001 inches or so. Far more than sufficient for woodworking.

    https://www.leevalley.com/en-us/shop...r?item=88N9046



    https://www.leevalley.com/en-us/shop...nation-caliper





    This one's even cheaper ($25):

    https://www.amazon.com/dp/B018D9JPPA/

    https://clockwisetools.com/products/...caliper-6-inch

    You would not enjoy Nietzsche, sir. He is fundamentally unsound. — P.G. Wodehouse (Carry On, Jeeves)

  4. #39
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    Default Re: Why or why can't we get a 6" rule that works for everybody?

    Thanks Nicholas, I do a ton of CNC machining and have a few micrometers.
    But the end grads are sooooo useful when you need them
    Clinton B. Chase
    Portland, Maine

    http://tinyurl.com/myboats

  5. #40
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    Default Re: Why or why can't we get a 6" rule that works for everybody?

    Why aren’t women ever good carpenters?
    cuz they all been taught that “this” is six inches

  6. #41
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    Default Re: Why or why can't we get a 6" rule that works for everybody?

    Quote Originally Posted by gypsie View Post
    hee hee

    Things is, imperial is infact metric.

    Try and find out what an inch actually is, and you'll discover it is based on the milimeter. 25.4mm in the US. Because - we know what a millimeter is;

    I always find it a bit irritating that the wise old ones chose 25.4. Why not 25mm even and so much stuff lines up so easily! No need for two rulers, just decimalise the inch and hey presto! But alas.

    I guess at the time it was decided to define the inch in terms of the meter (1930 I read) the world did know what the length of the inch was ( to the nearest tenth of a millimeter) ,and a part of the industrialized world was heavily invested in the use of that length.
    Last edited by Bill Perkins; 12-11-2022 at 12:03 PM.

  7. #42
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    Default Re: Why or why can't we get a 6" rule that works for everybody?

    Quote Originally Posted by Clinton B Chase View Post
    Hmmm, still not one with:
    -metric on one side
    -fractional/imp on other in 1/8ths, 16ths and 32nds
    -end graduations

    But thank you all for suggestions.
    $3.79 at ace hardware

    6a27dcbf-969f-45b3-8a69-9b029605240f.jpg
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

  8. #43
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    Default Re: Why or why can't we get a 6" rule that works for everybody?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicholas Carey View Post
    That's what a 6-inch dial or digital caliper is for. It can do outside measurement, inside measurement and depth/thickness. They run $25 to $50 or so. Or you can go big bucks and get a Starret, Mitutoyo, or Browne+Sharpe.

    But even the cheap ones are good to +/- 0.001 inches or so. Far more than sufficient for woodworking.
    Agreed! I'm a caliper fan since discovering them when I took up reloading.

    Before that it was 'by eye' with the aid of any convenient ruler, or the 'story stick' previously mentioned, a big plus when doing stuff like door installs or building custom cabinetry.

    Knowledge of useful tools & when to select one over the other for a given task is a well-earned skill IMHO.

  9. #44
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    Default Re: Why or why can't we get a 6" rule that works for everybody?

    My favorite tape measure, given to me by a Stanley salesman. I always kept it in my toolbox at work, lying patiently in wait for someone to ask to borrow a tape measure.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  10. #45
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    Default Re: Why or why can't we get a 6" rule that works for everybody?

    Deviating a little from the topic; the dial caliper seems to be a really popular thing for Americans and yet not one of the several dozen machinists I have known in the UK would ever use one or own one.Traditional verniers were common until the digital variant came along and micrometers were not that common as it has often been necessary to have two,one metric and one imperial since units relating to the king's thumb haven't quite died out yet.

  11. #46
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    Default Re: Why or why can't we get a 6" rule that works for everybody?

    $3.79 at ace hardware
    Instead of metric on one edge and inches on the other, it is better to have inches on one side, both edges, then flip it for metric. Easier to use for setting table saw fences in either system.

  12. #47
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    Default Re: Why or why can't we get a 6" rule that works for everybody?

    Quote Originally Posted by gypsie View Post
    hee hee

    Things is, imperial is infact metric.

    Try and find out what an inch actually is, and you'll discover it is based on the milimeter. 25.4mm in the US. Because - we know what a millimeter is;

    I always find it a bit irritating that the wise old ones chose 25.4. Why not 25mm even and so much stuff lines up so easily! No need for two rulers, just decimalise the inch and hey presto! But alas.
    Since 1959 in the USA, though the discussions were over some years before that. Why not 25mm? Because it was deemed it would be too much of a change. By the time you reach 1 foot, the foot would have to have been made nearly a quarter inch shorter..
    Want a six inch ruler? How about 40..
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/AIEX-Transp...s%2C322&sr=1-4
    Just an amateur bodging away..

  13. #48
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    Default Re: Why or why can't we get a 6" rule that works for everybody?

    Well...I got my new replacement scale and I have to admit I'm a little disappointed. It has the Imperial and Metric, but they're just printed on opposite sides, not one on each edge like my old one (and what's shown on the Amazon ad). I think I'll trade my wife for my old one since she doesn't really care...just wanted a nice scale.
    20221210_092701[1].jpg
    20221210_092716[1].jpg

  14. #49
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    Default Re: Why or why can't we get a 6" rule that works for everybody?

    I haven't read this thread from start to finish, so this may have already been suggested.

    Why not epoxy two rules together, with your favorite imperial scale showing on one side and your favorite metric scale showing on the other? Those end graduations are essential for setting router bit heights.

  15. #50
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    Default Re: Why or why can't we get a 6" rule that works for everybody?

    Quote Originally Posted by John Meachen View Post
    Deviating a little from the topic; the dial caliper seems to be a really popular thing for Americans and yet not one of the several dozen machinists I have known in the UK would ever use one or own one.Traditional verniers were common until the digital variant came along and micrometers were not that common as it has often been necessary to have two,one metric and one imperial since units relating to the king's thumb haven't quite died out yet.
    This post fascinates me.

    Why the objection to dial calipers?

    When I started my die maker apprenticeship in the early '70's, most die makers had a dial caliper, but that was in addition to micrometers, not a substitute for them. For most precision work, a micrometer is the thing to use, even if you have to convert between units.

    Calipers are mighty handy though; one 6" caliper covers the whole range of 6 micrometers, and are plenty accurate enough for a huge part of the work that goes on in a die shop.

    Vernier calipers are dependable, long-lasting, and accurate as long as the user has good vision. They also don't require batteries.
    But, let's face it... they're awkward and slow and require good lighting for most users. I still have a couple of vernier calipers, a couple of vernier height gages, and a vernier protractor. I can't remember the last time I used any of them.
    The only vernier scale I still occasionally use is the one on the thimble of a micrometer that allows me to interpolate tenths-of-thousandths of inches.

    After the introduction of digital calipers and height gages, all the dial-faced instruments fell from favor in all the shops I've been in, but they still work just like they always did.

    I think I was still in my apprenticeship when I bought my "pair" of dial calipers (6 inch and 150mm), so no later than 1977.

    During the years that followed, when they became common and affordable, I bought at least 4 digital calipers that I can think of, ranging from 6" to 24". All have died, and none really lasted long.

    I still have those dial calipers I bought in the '70's.

    I don't work in a shop anymore, other than my home shop, but I still have most of my tools. Those dial calipers are probably the most used of all my "machinist's" tools.

    Your post prompted me to go down and check them out:

    Using a random gage block as a standard, I checked the 6" caliper.
    With the block in the "main" portion of the jaws, it was right on the money.
    With the block held in just the tips of the jaws, where they are beveled down to a thin "knifey" edge, they measured about a half-thou undersize (.0005"). So the thin tips of the jaws have worn down a half thousandth in roughly 45 years.

    The metric one was seldom used, so it is like new.

    I'd say they've served me pretty well.

    Odd that some people would refuse to use them.

  16. #51
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    Default Re: Why or why can't we get a 6" rule that works for everybody?

    This one's interesting Clint: on one side 'Zero' starts in the middle!

    I reckon that it'd balance well on the edge of stock or whenever you want to measure out from something. With one of those Veritas rule stops that give you 90, you'd have a very nicely balanced small square. Students will look on with envy. Has end grads and its 32'ths.

    If it had imperial one side and metric the other, it'd be quite the tool.

    Anyway, this Luthier supplier has them...

    https://www.stewmac.com/luthier-tool...mac-shop-rule/




    The Veritas rule attachment to make a rule a square.



    I use my cheapest smallest square alot more than the bigger heavier ones. Just seems to be. As a basic marking gauge, does depth, proper little 90, if its preset for wither a metric or imperial project with a swap of ends. But yeah standard verniers for exact numbers.


    On the subject of marking out tools, I recently bought a double bevelled Wenge handled riveted marking out knife to upgrade from a pencil or Stanley knife. Flat handle to help keep to a straight cut (the Veritas one is round). Not necessary for epoxy, but standards are standards. Good for the money (£25) when you want a real sharp clean edge to the work.

    Last edited by Edward Pearson; 12-11-2022 at 05:45 AM.

  17. #52
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    Default Re: Why or why can't we get a 6" rule that works for everybody?

    Edward ; I'm sold ;that's exactly what I want.

  18. #53
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    Default Re: Why or why can't we get a 6" rule that works for everybody?

    That ruler posted in #51 is a center-finding ruler. I have an 18" long one that I regularly use. That 6" jobber looks really handy and would earn a place in my apron.

    Jeff

  19. #54
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    Default Re: Why or why can't we get a 6" rule that works for everybody?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon Bartlett View Post
    This post fascinates me.

    Why the objection to dial calipers?

    When I started my die maker apprenticeship in the early '70's, most die makers had a dial caliper, but that was in addition to micrometers, not a substitute for them. For most precision work, a micrometer is the thing to use, even if you have to convert between units.

    Calipers are mighty handy though; one 6" caliper covers the whole range of 6 micrometers, and are plenty accurate enough for a huge part of the work that goes on in a die shop.

    Vernier calipers are dependable, long-lasting, and accurate as long as the user has good vision. They also don't require batteries.
    But, let's face it... they're awkward and slow and require good lighting for most users. I still have a couple of vernier calipers, a couple of vernier height gages, and a vernier protractor. I can't remember the last time I used any of them.
    The only vernier scale I still occasionally use is the one on the thimble of a micrometer that allows me to interpolate tenths-of-thousandths of inches.

    After the introduction of digital calipers and height gages, all the dial-faced instruments fell from favor in all the shops I've been in, but they still work just like they always did.

    I think I was still in my apprenticeship when I bought my "pair" of dial calipers (6 inch and 150mm), so no later than 1977.

    During the years that followed, when they became common and affordable, I bought at least 4 digital calipers that I can think of, ranging from 6" to 24". All have died, and none really lasted long.

    I still have those dial calipers I bought in the '70's.

    I don't work in a shop anymore, other than my home shop, but I still have most of my tools. Those dial calipers are probably the most used of all my "machinist's" tools.

    Your post prompted me to go down and check them out:

    Using a random gage block as a standard, I checked the 6" caliper.
    With the block in the "main" portion of the jaws, it was right on the money.
    With the block held in just the tips of the jaws, where they are beveled down to a thin "knifey" edge, they measured about a half-thou undersize (.0005"). So the thin tips of the jaws have worn down a half thousandth in roughly 45 years.

    The metric one was seldom used, so it is like new.

    I'd say they've served me pretty well.

    Odd that some people would refuse to use them.
    The two driving factors seem to be that there is a lingering feeling that wear in the mechanism will lead to inaccuracy and that we often have to deal with a mixture of metric and imperial units on the same item,A conventional,old fashioned vernier has fewer moving parts and usually has both sets of measurements.It does require a smattering of knowledge to read both and thus eliminates a section of the average workforce from making sense of the reading.This last point has been rendered obsolete by affordable digital verniers and the press of a button switches between systems instantly.For greater accuracy a micrometer is needed and while a digital display can show a higher level of resolution,I didn't enjoy using a height gauge with 0.001mm resolution as it was too fiddly.

  20. #55
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    Default Re: Why or why can't we get a 6" rule that works for everybody?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon Bartlett View Post
    This post fascinates me.

    Why the objection to dial calipers?
    I have my old InterRapid Dial caliper from the '70s and love it, but it seldom goes into the woodshop for fear of getting chips into the rack & pinion drive. I check it regularly with the test gauges for my mikes and after 50 years it's still dead nuts on at 1, 2 and 3" (all the test gauges I have). I picked up a cheap digital for use in the woodshop as I don't have to worry about getting sawdust into the little bits. It's OK, but doesn't have the same feel. I'd love to find a good vernier, but I'm a cheapskate and they've become a bit dear.

  21. #56
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    Default Re: Why or why can't we get a 6" rule that works for everybody?

    For measuring, I like Mitutoyo stuff: I have a (too?) nice vintage combination square, a mechanical 'dial' vernier plus a pair of micrometers. The combination square is on several other levels (weight and quality the moment you pick it up or adjust anything) compared to the usual far east cheap stuff I started out with. I'm not familiar with Rabone or the other classic makers.

    Axminster stuff (their verniers i think are made by Mitutoyo they seem completely identical) and I recently got a couple of their (yellow) Axi combination squares for general use in the tool drawer, are very good for the money. Good quality without having to be too precious. Heavy casting. Feel old school and the yellow is easy to spot. I keep my Mitutoyo combination square 'for best' in their cases inside in a draw, oiled, for like when the King visits, or just to remind me what quality is and how things used to be, when tools were for life, made by experienced accurate craftsmen. I'll get a picture but unfortunately, as I lift it from it's case, you won't hear the Japanese angels choral sing.

    My eyesight is going...I now need bifocals, so I'm looking at those digital calipers with the big fat digits with a renewed appreciation. The digi Miti's are only £35 or so. Going from metric to imperial, and even fractions, at touch of a button is pretty convenient too. Batteries though and not the same involvement of reading manually to a thou or two just for the kick. There's alot of measuring with metalwork, and I think I might have a digital set for that as I'll be able to read it quicker 'in position' at an arms length, now I've got a full on 1940 Southbend 9" resto going on in the kitchen for the winter...
    Last edited by Edward Pearson; 12-12-2022 at 07:08 AM.

  22. #57
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    Default Re: Why or why can't we get a 6" rule that works for everybody?

    Interesting how this post turned out - I think it represents the fact that there are indeed a lot of options, no silver bullet, and we all have different preferences anyway.

    I think what I will do is do what I did with hardware, bring a bunch of it in and see which ones will work the best for me and my customers.

    Thanks all - Ed, I like that 6" center finding rule...may have to pick that up, too.
    Clinton B. Chase
    Portland, Maine

    http://tinyurl.com/myboats

  23. #58
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    Default Re: Why or why can't we get a 6" rule that works for everybody?

    Clint,
    Sometimes one finds solutions in unexpected places.

    Maybe not quite up to your specs...



    20221217_190117.jpg


    Got it in my (early) Christmas "Popper".

    20221217_190112.jpg

    Best of the season to all.

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