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Thread: Oathkeepers trial - verdict being read now

  1. #1
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    Default Oathkeepers trial - verdict being read now

    Stewart Rhodes and Kelly Meggs each found guilty of seditious conspiracy.

    Others declared not guilty of that charge.

    Further verdicts being read out right now.
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Oathkeepers trial - verdict being read now

    All 5 defendants convicted of obstructing an official proceeding. Others still being read.
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

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    Default Re: Oathkeepers trial - verdict being read now

    When is the last time anyone was convicted of seditious conspiricy?

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    Default Re: Oathkeepers trial - verdict being read now

    Wonder if they've realized they got no pardons from TRump?
    "Banning books in spite of the 1st amendment, but refusing to regulate guns in spite of "well regulated militia' being in the 2nd amendment makes no sense. Can't think of anyone ever shot by a book

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    Default Re: Oathkeepers trial - verdict being read now

    Quote Originally Posted by John Smith View Post
    Wonder if they've realized they got no pardons from TRump?
    yet...

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    Default Re: Oathkeepers trial - verdict being read now

    If they decide to deal instead of twenty years in Federal prison, some higher ups might be getting a bit nervous. Hoo- friggin’-Ray!!! About time.

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    Default Re: Oathkeepers trial - verdict being read now

    It be far too late for a "deal" methinks

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    Default Re: Oathkeepers trial - verdict being read now

    They haven’t been sentenced yet. Can’t they deal for shorter time? I think Roger Stone and a few others are on the bubble.

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    Default Re: Oathkeepers trial - verdict being read now

    #3: Civil War era.

    I hope they throw the book at him, and everybody else. Drumpf threatening to pardon all Jan 6 paticipants is just another reason not to vote for any Republican, ever again.
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    Default Re: Oathkeepers trial - verdict being read now

    "Drumpf threatening to pardon all Jan 6 paticipants"

    King Donald again……..It's about time that immunity from criminal prosecution for Presidents was abolished.
    That statement constitutes interference in the justice system, making the whole structure a mockery.

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    Default Re: Oathkeepers trial - verdict being read now

    Still not on fox news as of now...
    In the US this perverted idea of “blood and soil” over “constitutional principles” is the most radical and anti-democratic and anti-Conservative idea I have heard in my lifetime.

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    Default Re: Oathkeepers trial - verdict being read now

    It is a good day.
    My wife and I are very happy campers with this verdict.
    I was born on a wooden boat that I built myself.
    Skiing is the next best thing to having wings.

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    Default Re: Oathkeepers trial - verdict being read now

    Quote Originally Posted by McMike View Post
    Still not on fox news as of now...
    Probably won’t be. They have no time left while investigating Hunter’s laptop.

    This verdict is huge. Our system still works. And as much as I would like to see these people rot in prison forever, I think we now have a chance of convicting some higher up. I won’t hold my breath waiting for Trump to be convicted of sedition, but he was the one bringing this all together and is guilty as f***.

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    Default Re: Oathkeepers trial - verdict being read now

    I never understood the argument "we weren't going to do anything unless Trump told us to." If he did or he didn't, it's a conspiracy.

    Anyway, fat mouth Rhodes made clear that "if Trump doesn't do it, we will", disposing of the contingency of Trump giving the order.
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    Default Re: Oathkeepers trial - verdict being read now

    It's interesting that this has set the precedents that Jan6 was seditious, and that there's enough evidence to convict, and that an organizer of such a conspiracy needn't be on site at the time, personally.

    Remind me who Rhodes and Meggs conspired with, and to what objective? Whose idea was it anyway?
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

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    Default Re: Oathkeepers trial - verdict being read now

    That they conspired with each other qualifies as a conspiracy.

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    Default Re: Oathkeepers trial - verdict being read now

    "Big protest in D.C. on January 6th. Be there, will be wild!"

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    Default Re: Oathkeepers trial - verdict being read now

    Comments on Twitter that the Proud Boys whose trial starts soon must be agitated. As the depth of evidence against them is, apparently, greater.
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

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    Default Re: Oathkeepers trial - verdict being read now

    Good news indeed!

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    Default Re: Oathkeepers trial - verdict being read now

    ITS CHAOS, BE KIND

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    Default Re: Oathkeepers trial - verdict being read now

    It was said on our news that 3 other co-defendants were found not guilty 'on that charge', does that mean they may face further charges on other offences?

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    Default Re: Oathkeepers trial - verdict being read now

    Quote Originally Posted by skuthorp View Post
    It was said on our news that 3 other co-defendants were found not guilty 'on that charge', does that mean they may face further charges on other offences?
    Jurors found all five defendants guilty of obstruction of an official proceeding: Congress’ certification of Biden’s electoral victory.

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    Default Re: Oathkeepers trial - verdict being read now

    Quote Originally Posted by skuthorp View Post
    It was said on our news that 3 other co-defendants were found not guilty 'on that charge', does that mean they may face further charges on other offences?
    As I understand they face several charges, both federal and local.

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    Default Re: Oathkeepers trial - verdict being read now

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Bow View Post
    That's not easy to do really, just look at how many people have guns that haven't shot their eye out.

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    Default Re: Oathkeepers trial - verdict being read now

    I am pleased with the verdicts. The charge of seditious conspiracy has a very high burden of proof. The prosecutors did a great job here. They were probably helped by Stewart's arrogant decision to testify. He thought he could charm the jury, bigger fool he.

    I hope they go to prison for a very long time.
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    Default Re: Oathkeepers trial - verdict being read now

    The charges of seditious conspiracy, conspiracy to obstruct an official proceeding, obstruction of an official proceeding, and tampering with documents or proceedings each carry a statutory maximum penalty of 20 years in prison.

    A head on a pike would be better, but I'll take this.
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  27. #27
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    Default Re: Oathkeepers trial - verdict being read now

    So Elmer Stewart Rhodes, the convicted seditionist, went to Yale Law, as did JD Vance and so many other notorious Reich Wingers.



    Which begs the question, among the academic concentrations at Yale Law, mustn't there be one on "Burning the Bitch Down"???



  28. #28
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    Default Re: Oathkeepers trial - verdict being read now

    Jail a few soldiers and let the generals run for reelection. Typical.
    There is no rational, logical, or physical description of how free will could exist. It therefore makes no sense to praise or condemn anyone on the grounds they are a free willed self that made one choice but could have chosen something else. There is no evidence that such a situation is possible in our Universe. Demonstrate otherwise and I will be thrilled.

  29. #29
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    Default Re: Oathkeepers trial - verdict being read now

    I disagree. This trial was important partly to establish the precedents, respecting this instance of sedition, that it was sedition. In the trials coming shortly of another group of Oathkeepers, and of a group of Proud Boys, it will be easier to get convictions for seditious conspiracy because prosecutors will be able to point out that a cautious jury found that the evidence was sufficient to convict Rhodes and Meggs, and weren't emotionally overwhelmed into not distinguishing degrees of culpability for their fellows. So in cases where the evidence is even more comprehensive and damning, or where there's evidence of conspiring with already convicted seditionists, a jury will be more confident in their impulse to convict.

    I think this may lead to some deal making and plea agreements too, pleading guilty with the promise of reduced sentences for substantial cooperation - but still and fully dependent upon pleading to sedition.

    IMO, these are to establish the playing field for the indictments to follow, of those with whom these seditiinists liaise in Trump's circle, and hence to Trump himself. I think that without these convictions first - convictions mind you, not merely guilty pleas which could be dismissed as coerced - that it would be far more difficult for a jury to be willing to convict a former President, for fear of looking to be only politically motivated.

    In this case I think the foot soldiers need to be convicted first, before the generals would be likely able to be held accountable. One must prime the pump, as it were.

    This differs, e.g., from Nuremberg - where judges rather than juries administered justice.
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

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    Default Re: Oathkeepers trial - verdict being read now

    Did he and Meggs get hauled off to prison or is the judge letting them stay out of jail pending appeal?
    I sure hope they are in the slammer.
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  31. #31
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    Default Re: Oathkeepers trial - verdict being read now

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich Jones View Post
    Did he and Meggs get hauled off to prison or is the judge letting them stay out of jail pending appeal?
    I sure hope they are in the slammer.
    A good question - I dunno.

    I suspect though, that they're still in custody. They'd been kept in 'till now because the court considered that they were serious flight risks. Prompting folks like MTG to opine that they were held unlawfully as political prisoners.
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

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    Default Re: Oathkeepers trial - verdict being read now

    Excellent BBC profile article on Rhodes's son and the horrifying family life:

    Stewart Rhodes' son: ‘How I escaped my father’s militia’

    The son of militia leader Stewart Rhodes spent years plotting to help his family escape from his father's control. Now that the elder Rhodes faces decades in prison, the rest of the family is rebuilding their lives....

    The time had come. It was a dreary February day in 2018. Dakota had it all planned out.




    His mother and five younger siblings were in the truck - some of them crouched out of sight on the floor.


    They'd bundled into it as much as they could and made up an excuse - ostensibly they were heading to the trash dump just off the main highway, slick with black ice and crusted snow.




    But just as they started to pull away, Dakota's father burst out the door of their remote cabin in the mountains of northwest Montana.....

    "Hey," Rhodes growled. "Pick up some steak on your way back."...........

    .......Reflecting on his childhood now, he said he realised that the family had become "accessories to the Stewart Rhodes brand".

    His father had "made his family the centre point of this cult of personality that he wanted to build for himself," Dakota said. "And this reality that he wanted to spin into existence, in which he would be a major saviour figure in American history."




    As Rhodes's eldest son, he said he felt a tremendous pressure to maintain the family facade. He was expected to take up stereotypically manly pursuits that could serve militia purposes. They included a grab bag of survivalist skills, shooting practice, martial arts training and home-school history lessons that focused mostly on the American Revolution and the battle of Thermopylae............

    In the early 2010s, the family moved to a cabin hours to the north, in a small community in the mountains populated by like-minded militia members, preppers, and other people who usually prefer to be left alone.


    As a young man, Dakota spent one summer digging escape tunnels on the property, preparing for what his father believed was an inevitable government assault on the family compound.




    Out in the countryside, miles from the connections he'd made in town, Dakota's favoured hobbies - martial arts and the Boy Scouts - fell by the wayside.......

    .......Dakota had no money, no formal education and a very small social circle. He took some steps in the right direction - he learned how to drive, and worked to pass his GED - the equivalent of a high school diploma. But the real transformation came after a random encounter at a petrol station while driving his father back from an Oath Keepers meeting.


    A clerk there told him about the local volunteer fire department.


    Dakota agreed to come along to the next meeting. It turned into the break that he needed.




    Joining the fire department exposed Dakota to a new set of values that initially seemed to mirror what he heard at home: lessons about civic responsibility and preparedness. But at the fire station, people weren't talking about ancient battles, stockpiling guns and food, and raging against the government. They were getting out and helping people.




    The experience expanded his social connections and led to paid jobs miles away from home, fighting wildfires as far away as California. His controlling father allowed him to leave home to fight fires, he said, because it fit the macho ideals he had for his eldest son.....

    .......Years after escaping his father's home, Dakota's anger is still palpable. So is his relief.

    "I'm going to be able to breathe a little bit easier," he said.




    His political path has diverged from his father's. Prior to the midterm elections he volunteered for local Democratic Party politicians.


    And in 2020, Dakota was back in Kalispell, joining more than 1,000 protesters in support of the Black Lives Matter movement.




    Armed militia members were there too. One of them got in Dakota's face- covered at the time due to Covid restrictions. When he lowered the bandana around his mouth, the man was stunned.




    "He very quickly realised that I was Stewart's son and was completely shocked to see me on the other side of the protest line.".....

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-63709446
    "George Washington as a boy
    was ignorant of the commonest
    accomplishments of youth.
    He could not even lie."

    -- Mark Twain

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    Default Re: Oathkeepers trial - verdict being read now

    ^ They remain in custody pending sentencing.
    There are two kinds of boaters: those who have run aground, and those who lie about it.

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    Default Re: Oathkeepers trial - verdict being read now

    Quote Originally Posted by ron ll View Post
    That they conspired with each other qualifies as a conspiracy.
    Ah, yes, but who else?
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    Default Re: Oathkeepers trial - verdict being read now

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Bow View Post
    He shot his eye out!
    The question is "Does that make him more macho, or just more stupid?"

    I vote stupid. He is a walking, talking advertisement for stricter gun control.
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