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Thread: Fir die off

  1. #1
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    Default Fir die off

    Record numbers in Oregon and Washington

    https://www.oregonlive.com/environme...rmageddon.html

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Fir die off

    I knew we were having a die-back, but didn't realize it was that bad!

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    Default Re: Fir die off

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Gray View Post
    Record numbers in Oregon and Washington

    https://www.oregonlive.com/environme...rmageddon.html
    Before I retired I worked to support these aerial forest surveys with satellite and airborne remote sensing systems. Other important species at risk in the western US include Western White Pine, Bristlecone Pine and Limber Pine, all five needle fascicle pine species.

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  5. #5
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    Default Re: Fir die off

    Quote Originally Posted by johnw View Post
    Should we be planting southern species farther north?
    Good question, but my concern is for these high elevation species which are so valuable to wildlife species.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Fir die off

    Quote Originally Posted by timber_cruiser View Post
    Before I retired I worked to support these aerial forest surveys with satellite and airborne remote sensing systems. Other important species at risk in the western US include Western White Pine, Bristlecone Pine and Limber Pine, all five needle fascicle pine species.
    And Whitebark Pine, another five-needle, high elevation species.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Fir die off

    Quote Originally Posted by johnw View Post
    Should we be planting southern species farther north?
    ,

    Legit question.

    One one hand - nature will infill with the appropriate species.

    OTOH - it makes sense to shift all the effort of required replanting of logged lands to species that will actually survive. My first thought is that the swingers of hoedads should have their tree-bags stocked with a variety of species... and see which ones thrive.

    Heck, who knows... maybe the Pacific NW will turn into deciduous territory. Or maybe the lodgepole pines will take over west of the Cascades?

    Wonder what the pro's think...
    David G
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  8. #8
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    Default Re: Fir die off

    Quote Originally Posted by David G View Post

    Heck, who knows... maybe the Pacific NW will turn into deciduous territory. Or maybe the lodgepole pines will take over west of the Cascades?

    Wonder what the pro's think...
    grassland
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Fir die off

    Chestnut Blight
    Dutch Elm Disease
    Spruce Budworm
    Emerald Ash Borer

    Now this?

    If some other thing comes along these lines (Oak Wilt) we might as well plant corn and beans across the entire continent. And make plywood out of straw.
    Last edited by Dave Hadfield; 11-26-2022 at 09:16 PM.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Fir die off

    We have a pretty serious dieback issue with conifers here too, often shelter belts and the like. The big concern being Kauri dieback.
    My close friends have lost an entire fenceline of Leylandi circling their 5 acres due to disease, I know because I've felled about a third of it to date, amazing bonfires..

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Fir die off

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    grassland
    Paul, unfortunately this means Cheat Grass in expanded ranges.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Fir die off

    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/25/s...eeds-mice.html

    Kind of an interesting NYT's article about how tree species make their way, adapting to warming with some help from the little mammals. I won't live to see it, but the forests will look different in the not too soon future.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Fir die off

    In the southern Appalachians, the Eastern hemlock is rapidly disappearing due to the hemlock woolly adelgid (Adelges tsugae).

    In my lifetime, nearly all of the mature Fraser firs of southern Appalachia were killed off by the balsam woolly adelgid—a parasite introduced from Europe around 1900.

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Fir die off

    A lot of fir dying off here as well.

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Fir die off

    Due to the climate change the lines of equal average temperature creeps to the North in Europe.
    The Dutch forestry service is planting trees that originated in the South of France now to replace the original Dutch native species. Goal is to make the forests more diverse and more resistant to the higher temperatures and dryer conditions.
    The preliminary conclusion is that it seems to work.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Fir die off

    Ash die-back affecting most of the UK.
    My ash tree went, but made good kindling.

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Fir die off

    I my part of southern Australia (c&p) Eucalypts were the predominant trees, and characteristic species include brown stringybark (Eucalyptus baxteri), manna gum (E. viminalis), messmate stringybark (E. obliqua), and mountain grey gum (E. cypellocarpa). ..rown stringybark is found on low-fertility soils, and messmate stringybark becomes common on more fertile soils.
    Most were felled for houses, firewood or just burnt to clear agricultural land. Now it's too warm for many of those species to thrive, and saplingsgs seldom reach maturity. We plant species from 150-200 k further north.

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Fir die off

    I have read somewhere that the changes in Europe's average equal yearly temperature were creeping North with approximately 15-20 kilometers a year.
    Unfortunately I can't find the source but I'm sure these figures are correct. That's the distance Paris-Amsterdam in 25 years.

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Fir die off

    Vermont maple experts have predicted that, if warming continues at the same rate, we will have conditions like the mid-Atlantic states & won't be producing any maple syrup in ~100 years.

    In the late 60's - early 70's acid rain made many northern NY & VT lakes sterile & acid fog * killed off every red pine above a couple of thousand feet, Many of the mountains around here had bands of gray around them from all the dead trees. The Clean Air Act shutting down coal power plants was largely responsible for ending that.

    * in 1974, the ground fog @ 3,000 ft on a mountain near me was measured as more acid than a dill pickle.
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Fir die off

    Quote Originally Posted by David G View Post
    ,

    Legit question.

    One one hand - nature will infill with the appropriate species.

    OTOH - it makes sense to shift all the effort of required replanting of logged lands to species that will actually survive. My first thought is that the swingers of hoedads should have their tree-bags stocked with a variety of species... and see which ones thrive.

    Heck, who knows... maybe the Pacific NW will turn into deciduous territory. Or maybe the lodgepole pines will take over west of the Cascades?

    Wonder what the pro's think...
    The way Lodgepole grows here, you might not have a choice, it tends to self seed to such an extent that it takes over anywhere it can survive. They're known here as "wilding" pines, and there are millions being spent to kill them rather than have them kill all the indigenous species.

    John Welsforf
    An expert is but a beginner with experience.

  21. #21
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    Default Re: Fir die off

    The NW forests have been stressed for a number of years. The heat wave two years ago where temperatures reached in excess of 110 degrees (116 here for the high mark) sped things along considerably.

    This has huge implications for Oregon which is still very much a timber state despite some diversification into semi-conductors.
    Last edited by Dave Gray; 11-27-2022 at 07:30 PM. Reason: Forgot the word ‘stressed’.

  22. #22
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    Default Re: Fir die off

    Quote Originally Posted by john welsford View Post
    The way Lodgepole grows here, you might not have a choice, it tends to self seed to such an extent that it takes over anywhere it can survive. They're known here as "wilding" pines, and there are millions being spent to kill them rather than have them kill all the indigenous species.

    John Welsforf
    So, are wilding pines not Pinus Radiata?
    There is nothing quite as permanent as a good temporary repair.

  23. #23
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    Default Re: Fir die off

    As an aside Snow Gums have been advancing up our quite small mountains as the snow line retreated since I first got involved in measurements in 1984. With it go a whole community of small mamals, insects and herbs that rely on the grassy tops and small tarns.

  24. #24
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    Default Re: Fir die off

    David said>" My first thought is that the swingers of hoedads should have their tree-bags stocked with a variety of species... and see which ones thrive."

    Does that mean they will go back to the thousands of acres here in Oregon that did Not grow back after the haphazard plantings?

  25. #25
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    Default Re: Fir die off

    From my underrstanding fire has a deleterious effec on fir regrowth if some older 'seed trees' do not survive?

  26. #26
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    Default Re: Fir die off

    Quote Originally Posted by Stiletto View Post
    So, are wilding pines not Pinus Radiata?
    I thought the same as you..
    https://www.nzpcn.org.nz/flora/species/pinus-contorta/
    Leaves me wondering what the monster grand daddy pine on our place is, I assumed its a wilding monterey/ radiata

  27. #27
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    Default Re: Fir die off

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Hadfield View Post
    Chestnut Blight
    Dutch Elm Disease
    Spruce Budworm
    Emerald Ash Borer

    Now this?

    If some other thing comes along these lines (Oak Wilt) we might as well plant corn and beans across the entire continent. And make plywood out of straw.
    https://chestnuthilltreefarm.com/lea...nut-history-2/

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