Biden going after semi-automatics?

[McMike]

I'm not sure I could swing a hammer fast enough and feel more comfortable with a length of hardwood that I can use the wrist in a that sort of snapping, whipping motion, whereas the weight of a hammer would require more of a (slower) arm swing. As you might imagine I am not a very big strong guy. As for the bear spray, for sure one would want to use it very judiciously indoors. I certainly wouldn't empty the can in my living room or bedroom. Edited to add: My wife just has to sprinkle a little cayenne into a hot dish on the stove and I'm coughing and gasping. So I hear ya.

It won't hurt for you to try in your garage, just one quick squirt, stand there and try to breath normally . . . for as long as you can. It's not stuff to be messed with.

[David W Pratt]

I'd love to see universal health care. Health care, not insurance industry help. Since the Affordable Care Act was passed, health care costs have risen, and US life expectancy has declined.

[McMike]

I'd love to see universal health care. Health care, not insurance industry help. Since the Affordable Care Act was passed, health care costs have risen, and US life expectancy has declined.

I'm paying $900/month for the "silver" plan.... With an $8000 max deductible and then co-insurance. . .

[Paul Pless]

I'm paying $900/month for the "silver" plan.... With an $8000 max deductible and then co-insurance. . .

how much would you consider a fair amount to personally pay in taxes each month for universal health care for yourself plus your fellow citizens?

[McMike]

how much would you consider a fair amount to personally pay in taxes each month for universal health care for yourself plus your fellow citizens?

Considering the rest of the developed world pays about a third to half that with little deductible . . . That.

[sonofswen]

Australia confiscated 650,000 guns. Murders and suicides plummeted.


In the wake of the killing in Uvalde, here’s what America can learn from Australia’s response to tragedy.
Tuesday’s shooting in Uvalde, Texas, has already kicked off another national debate about gun control. It is worth considering, as one piece of evidence about what policies do and do not work, the experience of Australia in the late 1990s.
Between October 1996 and September 1997, Australia responded to its own gun violence problem with a solution that was both straightforward and severe: It collected roughly 650,000 privately held guns. It was one of the largest mandatory gun buyback programs in recent history.
And there’s decent reason to think it worked. That does not mean that something even remotely similar would work in the US — they are, needless to say, different countries — but it is worth at least looking at Australia’s experience.

[McMike]

Roughly 400 million guns are in civilian hands in the USA. Roughly 20 million are "AR" type guns. 650,000 is peanuts. If you were gong to give an average of $500 per gun for buybacks, that would be $200 billion. And it's written into our constitution for which it'll take 38 states to vote to ratify a change. It'll never happen.

[Paul Pless]

Australia confiscated 650,000 guns. Murders and suicides plummeted.

plummeted?

8B2A01F5-ABA9-4DB1-8EA3-A9B46FE1E693.png

F87823A7-5812-4CEF-A655-B3D79EC39E76.png

[JimD]

It won't hurt for you to try in your garage, just one quick squirt, stand there and try to breath normally . . . for as long as you can. It's not stuff to be messed with.

I survived Nuke/Bio/Chem warfare training so I think I know enough to be careful with bear spray, even without a gas mask. But thanks for the advice. It's always welcome.

[CWSmith]

My brother-in-law sat down in his driveway about 6 months ago and blew his brains out.

He had issues, but he might be alive today if suicide had been just a little bit more difficult.

[Paul Pless]

damn cw

[Gordon Bartlett]

My brother-in-law sat down in his driveway about 6 months ago and blew his brains out.

He had issues, but he might be alive today if suicide had been just a little bit more difficult.

Uggh. That's rough. Sorry to hear it CW.

[CWSmith]

My wife is still in mourning. I think he was the only one in the family she liked.

My point is that guns make it too easy. Depression is real, but depressed people tend to hide it and don't let you in. Getting better mental health treatment is a good thing, but it shouldn't be done instead of reducing the easy of getting guns. It should be done in addition to getting the most dangerous guns off the streets.

[gypsie]

how much would you consider a fair amount to personally pay in taxes each month for universal health care for yourself plus your fellow citizens?

As far as i know, the US government already spends as much as other western nations on healthcare. Thats the point, between what your government and your private citizens pay for healthcare you have the most expensive system on earth. It's not about spending more, it's about spending smarter, and legislating smarter. (Which doesn't have to be that smart because every other western country has pretty much ironed out all the kinks).

(Where did you pull those graphs from?)


CW, so sorry to hear that.
You are absolutely right, its a established (and perfectly intuitive) fact, making access to guns more difficult reduces suicide for precisely that reason.

[hawkeye54]

My brother-in-law sat down in his driveway about 6 months ago and blew his brains out.

He had issues, but he might be alive today if suicide had been just a little bit more difficult.

Unfortunately , for one poor soul, it was more difficult. My wife was in the hospital in Houston some years ago, when they brought in a guy who attempted it, but the bullet hit / richoceted off his teeth and severely damaged his cheek and ear. He faced a long recovery. Sorry about the 'drift' , CW . . . a loss like that is never easy to process . . .

Rick

[CWSmith]

Unfortunately , for one poor soul, it was more difficult. My wife was in the hospital in Houston some years ago, when they brought in a guy who attempted it, but the bullet hit / richoceted off his teeth and severely damaged his cheek and ear. He faced a long recovery. Sorry about the 'drift' , CW . . . a loss like that is never easy to process . . .

Rick

You know, I want to say the fellow in your story is better off, but that's just hideous.

I really don't want to fault gun owners and it's true that the vast majority are used legally and responsibly. I think the problem is as much the culture as the potential. Our culture seems fixated on the use of guns and there is an element within our society that thinks it can solve its problems with guns. I honestly believe that we would have fewer gun deaths (suicides are less clear) if as a society we condemn the use of guns against people.

Imagine a society where just one thing changed - the NRA went back to being a company that advocated safe firearm use. They argued for safe storage and supported hunting, and they got out of talking about self-defense and the right to carry anytime anywhere. Imagine nothing else changed including the laws. I honestly think that we would have fewer gun deaths, especially mass shootings.

[Peerie Maa]

My brother-in-law sat down in his driveway about 6 months ago and blew his brains out.

He had issues, but he might be alive today if suicide had been just a little bit more difficult.

Data from nations without easy access to guns bear that out.

Some suicide attempts are a cry for help.
Some suicides find planning and assembling the means gives them time to reconsider and seek help.
Neither is possible when it is as quick as the squeeze of a trigger.

[Paul Pless]

Data from nations without easy access to guns bear that out.

the suicide rate in england and wales is half that of the united states

however, little correlation between gun ownership is found to be the driving reason for the greater rate of suicides in the u.s.

mostly the difference in rates come down to three things

• better access to mental health care
• attitudes about mental health care
• and better socio-economic outcomes primarily due to a better social safety net in england and wales

look, i'd like the data to point to stricter firearms regulations to be a limiting factor in suicides, but the data doesn't really seem to bare that out - not between the usa and england, australia, nor the nordic countries at least

[Peerie Maa]

the suicide rate in england and wales is half that of the united states

however, little correlation between gun ownership is found to be the driving reason for the greater rate of suicides in the u.s.

mostly the difference in rates come down to three things

• better access to mental health care
• attitudes about mental health care
• and better socio-economic outcomes primarily due to a better social safety net in england and wales

look, i'd like the data to point to stricter firearms regulations to be a limiting factor in suicides, but the data doesn't really seem to bare that out - not between the usa and england, australia, nor the nordic countries at least

This is what I am talking about

Attempters’ Longterm Survival

Nine out of ten people who attempt suicide and survive will not go on to die by suicide at a later date. This has been well-established in the suicidology literature. A literature review (Owens 2002) summarized 90 studies that have followed over time people who have made suicide attempts that resulted in medical care. Approximately 7% (range: 5-11%) of attempters eventually died by suicide, approximately 23% reattempted nonfatally, and 70% had no further attempts.
Even studies that focused on medically serious attempts–such as people who jumped in front of a train (O’Donnell 1994)–and studies that followed attempters for many decades found similarly low suicide completion rates. At least one study, published after the 90-study review, found a slightly higher completion rate. This was a 37-year follow-up of self-poisoners in Finland that found an eventual completion rate of 13% (Suominen 2004).

https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/means-m...tter/survival/
and file:///C:/Users/Home/Downloads/suicides_v3_tcm77-168759.pdf

Guns are final.

[John Smith]

I suspect there are a lot more lives to be saved if we pass universal healthcare that includes dental, vision, and mental. If people could get proper intervention in hard times, imagine the amount of stress that can be mitigated, and therefor, less self-medicating and far fewer gun deaths I suspect. And for the record, I'm not advocating mental healthcare as a diversion from good gun control measures.

That's probably true. Still, my question remains; who was supposed to regulate that well regulated militia?

[LeeG]

That's probably true. Still, my question remains; who was supposed to regulate that well regulated militia?

The gov’t the nut jobs want to overthrow.

[John Smith]

I'd love to see universal health care. Health care, not insurance industry help. Since the Affordable Care Act was passed, health care costs have risen, and US life expectancy has declined.

We won't get universal healthcare until someone explains that we, the people, are paying for all healthcare as consumers and/or as taxpayers.

I'm a lone voice when I point out that our employer based system costs jobs. I'm tired of posting that my employer was paying more for my self and family health insurance than paying me in wages.

That nice insurance one gets from one's job is a cost passed to the consumer of the company's product or service. It's a major part of that 'high cost of American labor' we often hear about. It adds to the problem of building something here and being competitive in a global world.

Reagan lied about how universal healthcare would work, and he succeeded in scaring people.

[John Smith]

I'm paying $900/month for the "silver" plan.... With an $8000 max deductible and then co-insurance. . .

I pay $170 a month for Medicare and $276 a month for my Blue Cross. Hospitals and doctors get paid in full; I owe nothing. These figures include standard option dental, which I'm changing to high option for '23, as I expect some major dental work.

[John Smith]

My brother-in-law sat down in his driveway about 6 months ago and blew his brains out.

He had issues, but he might be alive today if suicide had been just a little bit more difficult.

I've come to believe that people who enjoy life have trouble understanding people who don't. It's a bit like men making laws over pregnancy.

[CWSmith]

I've come to believe that people who enjoy life have trouble understanding people who don't. It's a bit like men making laws over pregnancy.

I've lived 3 decades with a depressive and I can tell you that a mentally healthy person really cannot understand it.

[John Smith]

I've lived 3 decades with a depressive and I can tell you that a mentally healthy person really cannot understand it.

But they think they do. We all walk in our own shoes. One size does not fit all.

[Peerie Maa]

That's probably true. Still, my question remains; who was supposed to regulate that well regulated militia?

The gov’t the nut jobs want to overthrow.

The States were responsible for appointing the Orficers, who will have regulated the militias. Or what is a rhetorical question?

[CWSmith]

Speaking of guns and suicide, I just learned that a young woman who has worked for me has left college and is back on suicide watch. She's a sweet kid. It's not fair. Would she even get another chance if there had been a gun available to her? I don't know, but I'm sure it wouldn't have helped.

[Decourcy]

Speaking of guns and suicide, I just learned that a young woman who has worked for me has left college and is back on suicide watch. She's a sweet kid. It's not fair. Would she even get another chance if there had been a gun available to her? I don't know, but I'm sure it wouldn't have helped.

Women rarely choose guns, even when available

[Ralphie Boy]

You know I used to live on a farm and used guns for hunting, varmint control and target practice. It was a part of life.

That is until my wife and I were shot at and heard that terrifying buzz of a 30.06 bullet flying by.

No longer do I own or use a gun. And I've been right with SoCal Joe for some time now!





Too many innocent lives lost. And we just sit on our hands and send prayers and kind thoughts to families and friends of victims.

Shame on us.

I couldn’t agree more. I grew up shooting - this CA boy is probably a better shot than most people, but I am disgusted by the things. I used to like target shooting, but could use an air rifle for that and still have just as much fun.

I also think All these people who carry a weapon when going out into public are being super selfish. They carry this weapon so they don’t feel as scared, but what is our society going to be like when everyone is carrying? I mean, this is what they want, right? Everyone should have a gun at all times, preferably the bigger the better, and the more bullets it has the better too, right? Then everyone will feel safe, right? Right?

It sounds like a nightmare to me.

[Canoeyawl]

I think they carry because they feel powerful, not scared
(They are cowards)

[Peerie Maa]

Women rarely choose guns, even when available

The data in post#264 indicates that we can hope, then, that most of them will survive. Whereas those that chose a gun won't.

[John Smith]

I think they carry because they feel powerful, not scared
(They are cowards)

Maybe they're compensating for something else?

[LeeG]

semi automatic transmissions?

[Boatbum]

The short paragraph in the middle of the above article is a lie by misdirection.



It gives the impression that there were only those four incidents, so far this year, when the reality is that there are over six hundred mass shootings in the US every year. Mass shootings defined as four or more people shot in an incident. The actual statistics of gun violence are easily found on the web and the numbers are mindbogglingly atrocious.

It is a pandering craven lie, in the same way, that gun proponents say that there are millions of responsible gun owners and users who are law abiding and never shoot anyone. Even if that is actually true, it's a disengenuous argument to obscure the fact that the US has so much gun violence. The other big lie, meant to obscure the facts and deflect a realistic discussion of what should be done to 'finally put an end to the insanity' is to blame some imaginary dearth of mental health care. It isn't a binary issue, guns or not, killing or not, mental health or not. The real answer, the real solution to ending the gun insanity in America is to do many things that will have an impact, and one of the most obvious, and demonstrably the most effective in a quiver of many arrows of the solution is to vastly restrict the ownership of guns. And the best start is to restrict the manufacture sale and possession of assault type weapons. And make violations of gun laws felonies with harsh penalties.

I think one of the very best things America could do, not that it's remotely possible, yet, would be to melt down every single AR. And make three-printing and ghost gun manufacture and ownership punishable by life in prison.

It is factually true. There is no "even if it is actually true" to it.


As for the mental health issue....Are you actually saying that if all guns were confiscated and destroyed, that the US would no longer have a violence problem?

AND you are focusing on the "AR's" and yet if you look at the data, more people are killed by a combination of hands and feet than all rifles (not just AR's). If you are serious about eliminating gun violence you would do more to solve it by focusing on handguns than the AR.

I completely agree with you about the the need to eliminate ghost guns. As for 3D printing of guns....the concern is overblown. It would would be much cheaper to buy a black market gun than to buy an expensive 3D printer, figure out how to use it and then make a bunch of reliable guns - it would still require smithing.

Although it is possible to create fully-plastic guns, such firearms tend to be extremely short-lived.^[2] Instead, it is more practical to print a plastic frame and use metal in the action and the barrel. The metal parts can be self-made or bought in the form of a parts kit.^[3][a]

Lastly, you say that there are a lot more mass shooting than what is stated. You are absolutely correct, but in fairness, I think they are differentiating between the nut job that decides to grab a gun and kill a bunch of people vs a shootout on the 4th of July when there was a lot of drinking and arguing involved. In both instances there were more than 4 "victims" but one is premeditated and the other is not. I think when they talk about the mass shootings at places like Uvalde they are referring to the former. The latter is more likely to involve handguns which, again, kill way more people than AR's.