Biden going after semi-automatics?

[Paul Pless]

Like a motor vehicle, the other deadly weapon
License to operate, registration and insurance seems simple enough

sure, all for it, i'd add a safe storage requirement to your list

but that 'registration' requirement is the slippery slope we could never get past
once you create a list of firearms owners such a list never goes away
eventually ten years gone by or so the confiscations will begin
just like they have everywhere else such a list has been compiled
or so goes the narrative from the right

[Nicholas Carey]

Pointless discussion as we have been here before. My ruger no1 may be on the block. Hope that makes you feel safer. The end plan is English style laws.

How would a Ruger No. 1 be "on the block"?

That's a falling-block (single-shot) breechloader. One step above a muzzleloader, and a close relative of the Springfield "trapdoor" Model 1873, the Sharps rifle of 1848 (originally designed for paper cartridges), the Remington rolling block rifle of 1864, etc. . . .

A good rifleman could crank out, what, maybe 8-10 rounds/minute with one of those?

They're not coming for your Ruger #1.

[Treeguyus]

Proof on that? No . . . I thought so. I'm not on your side, I like the truth.

https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-...resolution/866

https://www.ppic.org/wp-content/uplo...engagement.pdf

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics...grants/621276/

[David W Pratt]

the clinton era assault weapons ban had zero effect on any forms of gun violence
because the ban was entirely meaningless - this has been well studied
manufacturers simply removed the cosmetic features described in the ban and continued selling the same guns less items like flash suppressors, bayonet lugs, and folding stocks; folding stocks remained available through the aftermarket as did high capacity magazines

there was a decrease in violent crime rates during the clinton administration but that decrease is attributable to better economic conditions

Although I am no fan of Clinton's gun ban, I believe during its lifetime there were no mass killings due to bayonet lugs.

[hawkeye54]

You guys.

Andy, exasperated.

And I, as well, for the following reason :

Back in 1968 - 1979, part of my 'other duties as assigned' was to familiarize literally hundreds of U S Navy sailors with all the small arms they would possibly be using in their careers (at the time, that included M1911A1 pistol, M1 rifle, shotguns, Thompson submachine gun, BAR, and .30 caliber and .50 caliber machine guns ) The training was intended to convey to them the safe handling, storage, and use of each weapon. With the benefit of 50 years of 'hindsight' , one has to wonder if some semblance of that training (as a 'refresher' ) MIGHT have made a difference in how weapons / weapons handling is viewed and approached here in the US . - × × In all those years of instruction, I only encountered one individual who was 'waving around' a loaded weapon - a Thompson submachine gun - he was harshly disciplined. × × ×


Rick

[Paul Pless]

How would a Ruger No. 1 be "on the block"?

there are also bore size and muzzle energy restrictions included in cantada's new firearms restrictions

[McMike]

https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-...resolution/866

https://www.ppic.org/wp-content/uplo...engagement.pdf

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics...grants/621276/

The first two don't have anything to do with ilegal imigrants voting and the last one continues to prohibit them from voting . . .

New York law applies only to people who have legal status in the U.S. and have resided in the city for at least 30 days. It does not confer voting rights to undocumented immigrants.)

Remember, "no taxation without representation", how can a taxpayer be represented if they can't vote? Ohhhhh . . . . I see, you forgot that we are a nation of immigrants and if not for them we'd be facing population shrinkage, even bigger labor shortages, and a deeper recession... I for one know my company could certainly use more skilled labor and are literally stopped from growing because the lack of it over the past few years. I thought you were worried about the illegal immigrants being allowed to vote . . . jeeze, you nearly gave me a heart attack when I thought you might have some proof of that . . .

[Jim Mahan]

It's a good damn thing the US Constitution wasn't ever amended to include the God-given right to automobiles.

The thing that needs to be done, is for someone like the president—not Biden because he's already well on the record for wanting sensible gun legislation—but for a subsequent president or someone else equally highly visible and in an election affecting position, like a Senate majority leader or Speaker of the House, to say out loud, publicly, that wanting to make such legislation is "just too hard because there are too many guns already and too many people like having them whether they use them or need them or just like them, and," and this is the key part—"people should just shut up about it and stop whining about a handful of kids in schools getting wasted on a frequent, almost regular basis. Just quit whining about kids and church-goers dying of gunshots because, after all, they're all going to die eventually anyway, and they're such a small part of the electorate. So let's talk about something important instead, like stopping people from murdering unborn babies."

The point of being publicly so callous would be to cause even more hot outrage from the general public, enough to swell up and overwhelm the real and unspoken limits to gun legislation. To make it so everyone in federal office just can't go to work without encountering seriously angry parents and other concerned citizens hounding them about a genuine effort to make substantial changes.

Whoever led the way in this calculated outrage baiting would be a sort of stalking horse and be willing to leave office in disgrace and sacrifice a reasonable legacy. (But he or she would be a hero.) Thus pointing the way forward for the rest of gun lobby kowtowers and big donor suckups, and leaving them only one option for ending that boiling outrage.

The country, according to polling, is in favor of the kind of legislation that other, more civilized countries enjoy, by a significant majority. If we didn't have such a dysfunctional system of special interest money in government, it would already be done. Even though there are three times [ninety percent of statistics on internet forums are just made up no the spot to make a point] as many guns in private hands in the US than there are citizens, the actual gun owners are in the minority. So fixing the school shooting problem, by in large part vastly reducing the availability of guns—as well as seriously legislating enough social and economic changes to obviate the usual reasons for gun violence—what we really need, is more of those citizens, the ones who would be stirred up to the point of actually going out and voting their conscience, and their righteous outrage.

[CWSmith]

Like a motor vehicle, the other deadly weapon
License to operate, registration and insurance seems simple enough

It's so obvious! Even avid hunters should get behind this and traditionally they have back when the NRA was all about gun safety.

[CWSmith]

eventually ten years gone by or so the confiscations will begin

The confiscations will begin if the killing hasn't stopped. Isn't it the obligation of gun owners to stand up for responsible gun ownership? I believe that society can stop the killing by changing the whole culture of gun ownership.

[Nicholas Scheuer]

Maybe my Underwood 30 cal M1 Carbine will be exempted as an antique", eh?

[Decourcy]

there are also bore size and muzzle energy restrictions included in cantada's new firearms restrictions

Im impressed. An American who actually reads what our coming restrictions are based on.

[Nicholas Scheuer]

So 22cal AR15's will be OK? What fun!

Im impressed. An American who actually reads what our coming restrictions are based on.

[Decourcy]

So 22cal AR15's will be OK? What fun!

Nope. All banned


Most rimfires semis are to be banned, along with all “AR derivatives”, and all centre fire semis


Most semi shotguns too. Most big bores. Etc etc


So yes, some ruger no1’s

[Joe (SoCal)]

Nope. All banned


Most rimfires semis are to be banned, along with all “AR derivatives”, and all centre fire semis


Most semi shotguns too. Most big bores. Etc etc


So yes, some ruger no1’s

Excellent !!!
I'm emailing my representatives to vote YES on this type of ban.

[Nicholas Scheuer]

If the Carbine is exempted I can probably sell it for enough to buy a Fleming World Cruiser.

[Decourcy]

Excellent !!!
I'm emailing my representatives to vote YES on this type of ban.

Welllll…to clarify. The government bit off too much. The AR ban has been tied up in courts for two years now, and will continue to be for at least two more. The handgun ban has multiple court challenges to work through. Because of some of the things like the larger bore hunting rifles getting added in, hunting orgs are now pushing back.

End result will likely be that everything dies at the table.

Lesson to your government? Don’t try to go overboard
Lesson to your gun owners? Government always goes overboard

[McMike]

nothing

we are currently at the point along a thirty year trend line moving steadily towards more relaxed gun rights verus increased regulation; this trend in my estimation, gained its first bit of accelerating momentum with the aforementioned ill conceived clinton era federal assault weapons ban

i've watched, crisis and tragedy, time after time, come and go, and each time a 'national' discussion on the issue occurs, a few months to a year later, gun regulation is further eroded in the law - whether that be through 'shall issue' laws, open carry, reciprocal rights to carry, stand your ground, etc. etc.

in all that time what has the left gained? a ban on bump stocks? ineffective red flag laws in three states? it's entirely ridiculous, dumbest **** ever

it was ever a losing issue politically for democrats, unfortunately too late for the to do anything about it now, they are married to it

where do you rank gun control in importance compared to the following:

• woman's rights to reproductive health choices
• income inequality
• effective and responsible management of the economy
• tax policy
• voting rights
• education policy
• lgtbq rights and marriage equality
• right wing and white supremist radicalization
• the green economy and a move towards clean energy sources
• environmental and sustainability issues

advocating for gun control compromises your ability to address all of the above issues in a progressive manner

and, as the chart in post #21 shows, where it counts, when you put your money where your mouth is, liberals are not committed to truly committed to changing gun control policy

I agree 100%.

[McMike]

Excellent !!!
I'm emailing my representatives to vote YES on this type of ban.

And if they do, the ban will be found unconstitutional before it can take effect and the entire left of center to-do list will be lost with it. Don't be stupid.

[CWSmith]

where do you rank gun control in importance compared to the following:

• woman's rights to reproductive health choices
• income inequality
• effective and responsible management of the economy
• tax policy
• voting rights
• education policy
• lgtbq rights and marriage equality
• right wing and white supremist radicalization
• the green economy and a move towards clean energy sources
• environmental and sustainability issues

advocating for gun control compromises your ability to address all of the above issues in a progressive manner

Paul, while the question is valid, the assumption that we can't do multiple things only demonstrates the level of dysfunction that currently blocks our government. These are all important issues when properly phrased.

[Joe (SoCal)]

And if they do, the ban will be found unconstitutional before it can take effect and the entire left of center to-do list will be lost with it. Don't be stupid.

It’s an “Amendment’ if you can’t change an amendment then why do they call it an amendment. Sounds like some of you need a thesaurus if you don’t know what that is get a dictionary and work your way backwards. We used to have an amendment that banned booze, then someone said I like booze and poof that amendment was gone. Oh and what was that other amendment OH yea SLAVERY and woman can’t vote and and and .

[David W Pratt]

It's so obvious! Even avid hunters should get behind this and traditionally they have back when the NRA was all about gun safety.

Say ten years ago, before the SC struck down a lot of gun restrictions, we could probably have gotten a pretty demanding national standard for training and certification for concealed carry, if it had been coupled with national recognition of the certification.
Gun enthusiasts would have loved it, and the training, following the Drivers' Ed rationale, should have resulted in more responsible gun owners. It would have relieved a lot of the pressure for constitutional carry, although Vermont has had that for centuries without deleterious effect.

[skuthorp]

#113
Jim, such a person would probably get themselves shot before the end of their term……………...

[CWSmith]

Say ten years ago, before the SC struck down a lot of gun restrictions, we could probably have gotten a pretty demanding national standard for training and certification for concealed carry, if it had been coupled with national recognition of the certification.
Gun enthusiasts would have loved it, and the training, following the Drivers' Ed rationale, should have resulted in more responsible gun owners. It would have relieved a lot of the pressure for constitutional carry, although Vermont has had that for centuries without deleterious effect.

Actually, there is one more thing - there is value when society says to its members "Guns are not a solution to your problems!" I honestly believe that part of our problem is the ease of gun ownership, but another is that loud voice in social media proclaiming that guns are the solution.

[McMike]

It’s an “Amendment’ if you can’t change an amendment then why do they call it an amendment. Sounds like some of you need a thesaurus if you don’t know what that is get a dictionary and work your way backwards. We used to have an amendment that banned booze, then someone said I like booze and poof that amendment was gone. Oh and what was that other amendment OH yea SLAVERY and woman can’t vote and and and .

Just as easy as you can change the 1st and the rest; right? What you're talking about is so far out from the realm of possibility that it's ridiculous to say. There is no path for what you want in terms of gun control for the next 25 years . . .at least. 50% of Republicans, 27% of Democrats, and 35% of independents own a firearm or more. Tell me, whats your plan to change their minds?

[L.W. Baxter]

oregon passed a gun control ballot measure this round. the gun rights crowd didn't even bother campaigning against it, it is so bad. and there was basically zero press about it. even supporters know it won't be implemented.

the measure creates multiple unrelated and redundant rules, and was written so poorly, the gun righties just laughed it off. "see ya in court".

i am generally in favor of just about any gun control law, but i voted against this one. it's a stillborn waste of everyone's time.

[Paul Pless]

the most obscene part of this debate is that we lose focus that the progun lobby is largely driven by the firearms industry
that industry sold $51billion worth of products in 2021 making the industry less than two-tenths of one percent of the economy
as a right wing lobby we allow them an outsized influence on the totality of american politics

wedge
wedge
wedge
dse

[Joe (SoCal)]

Just as easy as you can change the 1st and the rest; right? What you're talking about is so far out from the realm of possibility that it's ridiculous to say. There is no path for what you want in terms of gun control for the next 25 years . . .at least. 50% of Republicans, 27% of Democrats, and 35% of independents own a firearm or more. Tell me, whats your plan to change their minds?

Most Americans Republicans, Democrats, Independents, and non voters want MORE rational, reasonable, gun legislation , and most Americans are for an assault weapons ban.

Me, I WANT TO KNOCK ON YOUR DOOR CONFISCATE ALL YOUR F'n FIREARMS AND MELT THEM F'n ALL

[Canoeyawl]

First they came for our guns, then they came for our pencils

[CWSmith]

the most obscene part of this debate is that we lose focus that the progun lobby is largely driven by the firearms industry
that industry sold $51billion worth of products in 2021 making the industry less than two-tenths of one percent of the economy
as a right wing lobby we allow them an outsized influence on the totality of american politics

wedge
wedge
wedge
dse

I don't know what is worse. The oil industry is 8% of our economy and they stand in the way of renewable energy. The health insurance industry is 20% of our economy (that makes my head explode!) and they stand in the way of putting the doctors back in charge of health care.

[Peerie Maa]

the most obscene part of this debate is that we lose focus that the progun lobby is largely driven by the firearms industry
that industry sold $51billion worth of products in 2021 making the industry less than two-tenths of one percent of the economy
as a right wing lobby we allow them an outsized influence on the totality of american politics

wedge
wedge
wedge
dse

I don't know what is worse. The oil industry is 8% of our economy and they stand in the way of renewable energy. The health insurance industry is 20% of our economy (that makes my head explode!) and they stand in the way of putting the doctors back in charge of health care.

The Tobacco industry and their insurance companies employed shills to allow them to continue selling addictive poisons, and avoid the consequences.
Is seems to be a feature, not a bug.

[McMike]

Most Americans Republicans, Democrats, Independents, and non voters want MORE rational, reasonable, gun legislation , and most Americans are for an assault weapons ban.

Me, I WANT TO KNOCK ON YOUR DOOR CONFISCATE ALL YOUR F'n FIREARMS AND MELT THEM F'n ALL

You know I'm immune to that sh17; right? Anyway, Regulations, yes, confiscation, no. Whats an assault rifle?

If you accept that guns are here to stay as any intelligent person would concede,

A fore-grip: Wouldn't you want someone who uses their firearm in self defense to have better control so they don't hit an unintended target?
Flashlight: Same as above, and, if you deploy a firearm for self-defense, a light is a must in terms of identifying ones target.
Red dot: Same as above.
Muzzle Comp; for better control in recoil mitigation, same as above.
Adjustable stock; same as above
Pistol grip: same as above.

All of those contribute to better accuracy that, if you're inclined to employ a firearm, will ensure that you hit your intended target and only your intended target.

I agree that it should be a national law to have to keep all firearms in a locked up.
I agree that no one should be allowed to carry a firearm outside of their property.
I agree in existing laws that make it a greater crime if you have a firearm in your possession.

[Paul Pless]

I don't know what is worse. The oil industry is 8% of our economy and they stand in the way of renewable energy. The health insurance industry is 20% of our economy (that makes my head explode!) and they stand in the way of putting the doctors back in charge of health care.

the oil industry has been and remains a critical part of ours and the world's economy

same same medical industry

guns and ammo, not so much

[Joe (SoCal)]

You know I'm immune to that sh17; right? Anyway, Regulations, yes, confiscation, no. Whats an assault rifle?

If you accept that guns are here to stay as any intelligent person would concede,

A fore-grip: Wouldn't you want someone who uses their firearm in self defense to have better control so they don't hit an unintended target?
Flashlight: Same as above, and, if you deploy a firearm for self-defense, a light is a must in terms of identifying ones target.
Red dot: Same as above.
Muzzle Comp; for better control in recoil mitigation, same as above.
Adjustable stock; same as above
Pistol grip: same as above.

All of those contribute to better accuracy that, if you're inclined to employ a firearm, will ensure that you hit your intended target and only your intended target.

I agree that it should be a national law to have to keep all firearms in a locked up.
I agree that no one should be allowed to carry a firearm outside of their property.
I agree in existing laws that make it a greater crime if you have a firearm in your possession.

Whats an assault rifle? ANYTHING semi auto over 5 round magazine, ANY AND ALL if you can't protect your damn self or Kill bambi with anything more than 5 shots you need to practice more.

I agree that it should be a national law to have to keep all firearms in a locked up. Of course I agree, but then you can't use the home defense argument. If it's locked in a safe and cracky home invades you at 3:00 am and your not laying in your bed with your holster on then it's no use as a defense weapon.

[Paul Pless]

^ why is it always a crackhead?