Seabird Yawl cock pit

[Michael_Owen]

Hello, all.
I have the plans for the Seabird Yawl purchased from our hosts and I have commenced building a four foot long model.
This is about one-sixth the size of the actual boat and required me to double the size of the plans, which I have mostly done.

My question is this: is there seating in the cockpit? I can't find any mention of it in the plans, just a wide, shallow cockpit sole with decent sized coamings around.

Here are two photos I found on line which may show both no seating and some type of side bench. Is it just up to the builder to decide?

Thanks for any thoughts.
Mike

x3goh_med.jpg

65707_3314_2753_lg_05.jpg

[wizbang 13]

In the second photo ,the chap is sitting on the built in side bench(s).
I had a Seabird in the 70's and sailed her a few thousand miles in the Caribbean Sea, which is rough goin for a small boat.Mine was bermudian with the full keel , as in pic one. mine had the side seats built in, leaky covers on top.
After a short while, I removed the entire cockpit and flush decked it. Much safer in blue water and a lot more room below.Eliminated two thru hull fittins .
For a model, one will not want to flush deck the cockpit of course.

my bro at the helm...yea we did not wear much in the hippie years in the usvi in the 70's

me in the zode under sheet to tiller.main and steering sail

[Michael_Owen]

Thanks, Bruce. Those are cool photos!

Do you know what year she was built?

Hailed from the Housatonic at some point?

[wizbang 13]

She was built in L.A in 1936
Original mane Kona
Sailed to Hawaii then to the Caribee, which is where I got her in 74
I wrecked her in Antigua in 76
I hail from the Housatonic River, not her .One did not need to register a boat then, I sailed her to a lotta island/countries with no papers, no passport, no fees and best of all no cops.

[Peerie Maa]

Drawings suggest no benches. What is the height from cockpit sole to coaming top? Low enough to sit on?

[coelcanth]

here's Harry Pidgeon in his Islander.. pretty much the same boat just larger, right ?
looks like the cockpit is more of a footwell with coamings ?

[Michael_Owen]

Cockpit sole to deck line is about 12", with the coaming averaging about 6 or 7 inches above that.

The side benches in my Ilur are about 11" from the sole and are very comfy, so it would seem that one could easily put them in if desired.

My butt hurts just thinking about sitting on the coaming!

Any reason not to lower the cockpit sole a tad? Seems like a lot of space below. (All theoretical, of course, unless I hit the lottery.)

Mike

[Peerie Maa]

Cockpit sole to deck line is about 12", with the coaming averaging about 6 or 7 inches above that.

The side benches in my Ilur are about 11" from the sole and are very comfy, so it would seem that one could easily put them in if desired.

My butt hurts just thinking about sitting on the coaming!

Any reason not to lower the cockpit sole a tad? Seems like a lot of space below. (All theoretical, of course, unless I hit the lottery.)

Mike

As drawn the cockpit will self drain. It might not if made lower/deeper.

[Michael_Owen]

That does seem true, Nick.
There is about 11 inches or so from the sole to the W.L. Is there a minimum height above the WL for self-draining? Would water come in when heeled over? Or can the drains be one-way? Hinged flap?

Thanks for your thoughts.

Mike

[wizbang 13]

cockpit drains swap out under the cockpit sole to the other side of the boat

[Peerie Maa]

That does seem true, Nick.
There is about 11 inches or so from the sole to the W.L. Is there a minimum height above the WL for self-draining? Would water come in when heeled over? Or can the drains be one-way? Hinged flap?

Thanks for your thoughts.

Mike

The usual method is to cross the drains. The drain from the starboard side of the cockpit falls and exits to port, and vice versa. You need to ensure that the lower cockpit drain is always above the water when heeled.
I believe that there is a consensus that non-return flaps either don't work or are more trouble than they are worth.

[Michael_Owen]

Ah. That makes a lot of sense!

I'll build my model as drawn, but if one were to build the real thing, would anyone lower the cockpit sole by 2 inches and add some side benches? Or just add benches and not change the sole at all?

Bruce, was the cockpit on your full-keel version self-draining? Seems like the coaming would keep out anything from the side, but one might get pooped and be happy for the drains.

[wizbang 13]

Yes, Mine had crossed drains.Also built in benches with leaky hatch covers on top. 2, 20 gallon tanks under the seats both sides.

[Geftb]

A mate of mine finished building one just last year. He followed the plans with the cockpit and there wasn’t a lot of room underneath once done. Was very close to the waterline so I’m not sure I would go the extra 2”

[Michael_Owen]

10-4. Thanks, all.

Geftb, any photos of your friend's boat?

I'll probably start a build thread of my model in a few days. I'm going to try to make it a much like a real build as is practical. Though I probably won't put stopwaters in these joints!

stem.jpg

Mike

[Geftb]

I can ask him.

[wizbang 13]

if you want realism,
remember the cockpit hatches leaked a lot.
corners of the cabin leaked
planks leaked
sliding hatch leaked
canvas mast boot leaked
i learned quite a lot from that bote

[Michael_Owen]

Yeah, I think I saw in some old thread that if you were to build one, you would strip-plank the hull. Maybe some other bits as well?

I'll do the model carvel, but it's something to think about.

[wizbang 13]

okay, I went through some very old archived photos, two that show some cockpit detail.

this one shows the small bridge deck and the cockpit built in seats. There was a 2 cyl universal in there , I pitched it over the board.

this one shows a young naked lady rolling a joint, but she is sitting at the back of the cockpit steering with the other hand.
I put some modesty paper on her for the sake of a bunch of old farts here . (young girl is prolly 70 by now)
But we can see that the seats drop a bit below the deck inside of the coaming .We see the hatch to the lazarette .We see the mizzen sheet to her left.Her feet are on the bottom of the cockpit, so we can guestimate the depth of the well.The teak seat tops lifted up, hinged in the back
In real life, as I said, i covered the whole thing up.This rig was fine for the protected waters of the Virgin Islands, but beating to sint maarten , it was constantly sponging out a few gallons .I was knocked flat in her several times while in my bunk. The mainsheet was able to be led into the cabin and I laid it across myself when asleep underway. I could flip it from the bunk,out of the cam cleat at the back of the cockpit. So, the drains were still crucial.And, big waves would lap right over the coamings when she got goin.

[Michael_Owen]

Wow. Thanks so much!

Very helpful. Seems like a very nice boat, And the seats are clearly just right.

And a gal who can roll a J and steer at the same time!

[Michael_Owen]

For anyone who is interested in this design, I just received WB #41 from the WB Store and it has a few articles about Sea Bird and T.F. Day.
There's a bit about him sort of an obituary, then there are two pieces by Day excerpted from The Rudder from 1901, and then a brief construction sequence by Maynard Bray that I was very happy to see.

So already, I got my money's worth and the wheels are spinning, then I turn the page and there is a two-page article with a great construction photo entitled "How to build Sea Bird."

Day's pieces are very interesting regarding inside and outside ballast. As you may know he first built the boat with a centerboard and about 1000 lbs. of inside ballast, then took out the trunk and against his better judgement, made a sort of "fin keel" of the day, (ie. not straight along the bottom all the way to the stern post) which he says steered poorly, then built the long-keel version that he then sailed across the Atlantic with two (close) friends.

Mike

[wizbang 13]

How did you get interested in this ol boat Michael ?

[FF]

Michael, I cannot find the articles in WB#41. Can you check it? I am glad with these stories and pictures because they are new to me, I only saw drawings and texts, and the pictures bring them to life and I would like to see some more. Frank

[FF]

Found articles in WB # 43

[Michael_Owen]

Oops! My bad. It is issue # 43.

Wizbang, to tell the truth I was looking in my studio closet for the plans for William Atkin's 23 footer "Little Dipper" and grabbed a rolled up plan set, and it was Sea Bird.
I had forgotten that I had them. When I unrolled them, that hull shape just got me. She is very aptly named. Looks like she'd float like a duck.

I've built two glued-lap dinghies, and a 25 footer would be a reach, especially money-wise. But who wants money when you could have a wooden sailboat?!

Here's Nimbus with my kid at the helm. Built from plans. I loved the process.
great nimbusSM.jpg

Mike

[BillP]

If you can source it the Rudder mag.How To Build 20 Boats #294 has the Sea Bird...offsets plans, pics and descriptions. The narrative has a lot of good info.

Wizbang...sometime around 1973-77 I met a couple on a SeaBird at No Name Hbr in Biscayne Bay. Have a pic somewhere showing them in the cockpit. Was that you? I can't remember which yr but I was cruising in an H28 or Pennant 29.

[Ian McColgin]

I favor the no-cockpit on such a small boat. When I had the fantasy of taking the family Electra to sea, I built a watertight box that filled the footwell, through-bolted in place. I find sitting on a flat surface and even laying back for the boat's heel comfortable. They make sleeping under the stars difficult.

The cockpit has the advantage of feeling safer, protected a bit. It's a very personal choice.

G'luck

[Matt young]

Not sure if this has been mentioned on this thread. An intense account in a Seabird in the backend of this book. I love the whole book as well!

https://www.ebay.com/itm/39191614030...0&epid=2411007

[stromborg]

here's Harry Pidgeon in his Islander.. pretty much the same boat just larger, right ?
looks like the cockpit is more of a footwell with coamings ?

This picture and thread has me re-reading "Around the World Single-Handed". Sure would be nice to see more of the pictures he took along the way. I've poked around the internet a bit, I know they are archived here https://oac.cdlib.org/findaid/ark:/13030/c88k79xb/ but there is no access to them, which seems a shame.

[Michael_Owen]

I'm reading it now as well. Amazing journey!

[coelcanth]

my first edition copy has a section in the middle with around 20 or so photographs,
but 1500 glass plate negatives is way more than i realized existed !

says you can make an appointment with a curator to see particular negatives but you need to request them by number..
is there a print index that exists somewhere ??
how do you know the print number if not, without ever seeing them ???