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Thread: Sailboat search, 10’ bridge clearance@mlw. Hot stove league discussion.

  1. #1
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    Default Sailboat search, 10’ bridge clearance@mlw. Hot stove league discussion.

    it’s now the official hot stove league discussion time of year. What to build next?
    I am the proud builder and owner of a Core SOUND 17. l love the way it sails and ease of rigging. However, I now have moved to a harbor off Nantucket Sound and have a 400lb mooring waiting for the next build. The Vineyard is within my sight, but I can’t get there other than ramp launching and retrieving. Not fun at the end of a summer weekend at cocktail hour. The major issue is the bridge with a 10’ mlw clearance. Other than switching to building a powerboat (great Alaskan anyone?), I would love to build a 24’ sharpie style with the masts in tabernacles. Requirements listed below:
    1. Sails well enough to windward to cover the 4 mile crossing to Oak Bluffs in a reasonable morning’s sail.
    2. Masts must be able to get under the bridge, tabernacles for sure.
    3. Room for 4. 6 in a pinch
    4. ShAllow draft as the salt pond has quite a few skinny spots.


    a temporary solution may be a retrofit of the cs17 with a pair of tabernacles, but the thought of deck work on the skinny foredeck is probably a poor idea for a 66 year old. Not being a naval architect, I would need a solidly designed one.

    have at it.

    i may just ditch this idea and power up with a Tolman Jumbo, or short Great Alaskan.

    5C6D88EE-693A-4BA5-A17E-8A53052897DE.jpg

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Sailboat search, 10’ bridge clearance@mlw. Hot stove league discussion.

    Love the Core Sound series as well as the Lapwing. Came close to building a CS 15. I get my epoxy from B&B. You might not have to look any further than B&B. Graham has designed a couple nice sharpies. I also like the Norwalk Island sharpies. I’m guessing either of these could be built with tabernacles.
    Last edited by dalekidd; 11-23-2022 at 10:10 PM.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Sailboat search, 10’ bridge clearance@mlw. Hot stove league discussion.

    Catamaran with A frame rig?

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Sailboat search, 10’ bridge clearance@mlw. Hot stove league discussion.

    I'm thinking switch to lateen sails and short masts. Lugs or sprits might do too.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Sailboat search, 10’ bridge clearance@mlw. Hot stove league discussion.

    Not sure on the length, but you might check out some of Phil Bolger's books on the Internet Archive. I believe he has one in the length you're looking for that had a provision for pivoting the entire counter weighted mast down in a tabernacle (with one finger!). I don't remember which book it was in, but I'll take a look and see if I can find it again. It was quite a nice looking craft, too.

    Edit; for some ideas on efficient ways to do this sort of thing, check out the canal/river sailing barges from the 1800's in England. They had some great set-ups for lowering their rig quickly to avoid low bridges, then get it back up again the lose no time and maintain steerage-way.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Sailboat search, 10’ bridge clearance@mlw. Hot stove league discussion.

    Would love to see an example of one. What design?

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Sailboat search, 10’ bridge clearance@mlw. Hot stove league discussion.

    Me too.
    To be on the safe side, I would need a 9’6" main mast over which to hang the yards. Some geometry involved to get the square footage needed without hitting the mizzenmast.
    alternatively, build a completely new rig that is centered around using the third mast step, and ditch the mizzen completely. It may even be possible to rig up a lateen, or lug rig at that location, or square rig in a tabernacle.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Sailboat search, 10’ bridge clearance@mlw. Hot stove league discussion.

    whaddabout those bwitish botes that pop the rigs up n down quick like, fer low bridges ?

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Sailboat search, 10’ bridge clearance@mlw. Hot stove league discussion.

    The AS 29 had such an arrangement. Interesting concept.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Sailboat search, 10’ bridge clearance@mlw. Hot stove league discussion.

    One such plan is in Bolger's "Boats With An Open Mind"; Ataraxia, though she isn't the design I was thinking of. It can be read here; https://archive.org/details/boatswithopenmin00bolg_0/
    Page 370-385 detail her. She's much larger than the OP's suggested length and she's a motor-sailer, but I believe the general idea of his counterweighted mast is there. I'll keep looking for his other design with the same feature.

    For the "bwitish botes that pop" look up the Thames Sailing barges. A quick search of the web-way doesn't show any good footage of one lowering her mast, but the process is documented. They usually used a lug rig (one of the largest ever) since it's about the best for this sort of "pop-up" mast arrangement.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Sailboat search, 10’ bridge clearance@mlw. Hot stove league discussion.

    Found it; again, much larger (38ft) than the OP's length, I'm afraid, but I think her mast design would probably be easily adapted to any design found that matched her overall design characteristics.

    It can be found here: https://archive.org/details/30oddboats0000bolg
    "Apogee" is detailed under pages 235-241 and her counterweighted rig is shown in quite good detail (for Bolger, anyway).

    Now, he mentions in one of his books that a certain counter-weighted mast design was based on another boat he designed, but I don't remember what that other boat was, if he gave a specific name at all. It's wickedly hard to get details about Bolger's designs, given how hard they are to find. Most of the information on them is either in his books, which much be found as hard-copy (expensive) or as I've show in the Internet Archive (hard to read) and he references other books often, so you really have to read carefully. Also, much to my sorrow, many of his plans were given in magazines, apparently, such as "Messing About In Boats" of which I've yet to find a ditigization and the hard-copies are devilishly expensive (in the relative world of out-of-date magazines and budget-minded enthusiasts).

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Sailboat search, 10’ bridge clearance@mlw. Hot stove league discussion.

    Quote Originally Posted by wizbang 13 View Post
    whaddabout those bwitish botes that pop the rigs up n down quick like, fer low bridges ?
    A yes, Potter Heigham Bridge on the Three Rivers Race:


  13. #13
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    Default Re: Sailboat search, 10’ bridge clearance@mlw. Hot stove league discussion.

    This sort of thing perhaps? The fellow nearest is standing in front of the tabernacle.

    Broads cruiser.jpg

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Sailboat search, 10’ bridge clearance@mlw. Hot stove league discussion.

    Note the size of the block of lead at the base of the mast.I have major doubts about the geometry of the CS17 bow allowing such an arrangement,but the lighter mast involved might allow a few differences.

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Sailboat search, 10’ bridge clearance@mlw. Hot stove league discussion.

    This is a 6m Vivier Jewell, sail area 22 sq meters (approx 235 ft sq), trailer sailed. Carbon spars with main mast on a tabernacle. Shrouds are 6mm dyneema, a forestay and one shroud per side. Roller furling jib. Carbon mast blank weighed under 18# before hardware. I step and strike the rig solo. Mast needs no counterweighting.
    168A122D-7C61-49A0-B7DC-8330066A3368.jpg
    BBFC54D8-5F95-4407-9B90-782C799E1020.jpg
    Low bridges are a consideration where I sail on Lake Champlain and along the coast of Maine. I considered a tall tabernacle with the mast pivot above the boom, but that would have created clearance problems for the doors of my storage building in the off season. If my storage barn had taller doorways, I might well have gone that route. You may want to look at the tabernacle/rigging systems of the NIS boats, which I believe have unstayed masts in tall tabernacles.
    Kees Prins designed a 23’ pocket cruiser which adopted the NIS rig quite successfully—the Townsend Tern:
    023D30CE-FCE2-4CDB-B220-E4F3ACDF0F17.jpg
    Last edited by John hartmann; 11-24-2022 at 04:56 PM. Reason: Photo added

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Sailboat search, 10’ bridge clearance@mlw. Hot stove league discussion.

    I have always like the NIS boats. However, it looks as if the sets of plans to build from are no longer available. Just the kit from AUS.
    Another interesting boat would have been the Drascombe Lugger. Plans to build do not seem available. Closest would be Ian Oughtred’s Caledonia Yawl. Honestly the CS20 MK3 would fill the bill. I did see photos of one build where both main and mizzen were in tabernacles. I am a bit hesitant about climbing to the foredeck to tighten the nut on the mainmast in any kind of seaway in these cat/yawl boats, there’s not much room on that deck forward of the mast.

    on a sloop rigged boat, the issue would be connecting the forestay. Similar issues. Has anyone used spectra on a block and tackle arrangement in lieu of a fixed pin?

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Sailboat search, 10’ bridge clearance@mlw. Hot stove league discussion.

    Quote Originally Posted by dnjost View Post
    I have always like the NIS boats. However, it looks as if the sets of plans to build from are no longer available. Just the kit from AUS.
    Another interesting boat would have been the Drascombe Lugger. Plans to build do not seem available. Closest would be Ian Oughtred’s Caledonia Yawl. Honestly the CS20 MK3 would fill the bill. I did see photos of one build where both main and mizzen were in tabernacles. I am a bit hesitant about climbing to the foredeck to tighten the nut on the mainmast in any kind of seaway in these cat/yawl boats, there’s not much room on that deck forward of the mast.

    on a sloop rigged boat, the issue would be connecting the forestay. Similar issues. Has anyone used spectra on a block and tackle arrangement in lieu of a fixed pin?
    See this old thread for background info on Drascombe plans. http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...e-Lugger-Plans The Russian plans referred to in the thread can be found as a 22 page pdf here. https://www.nkde.nl/wp-content/uploa...ect-Paltus.pdf In case you're worried about IP, the UK Drascombe Association has Katia https://www.drascombe-association.or...oden/Katia.htm as a member.

    Nick

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Sailboat search, 10’ bridge clearance@mlw. Hot stove league discussion.

    If you're into the Drascombe but can't find plans,...
    Check out Tad Roberts Ratty or Tern at 20 and 24 feet respectively.

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