You can lay the blame at the feet of the Baby Boomers.

[ron ll]

Haven’t seen a thread with so many labels and generalizations in a long time. I was born in 1943. Don’t really care what label you want to pin on me, just don’t blame me for Herschel Walker.

[Keith Wilson]

Well, thinking about it a bit more, that's an interesting point. So why do evangelical Christians, or rural folks, or southerners, oppose universal health care? Getting bent out of shape about same-sex marriage, I can understand. But opposing reorganizing how we pay for medical care in the US in a way that would directly benefit them?

[LeeG]

Well, thinking about it a bit more, that's an interesting point. So why do evangelical Christians, or rural folks, or southerners, oppose universal health care? Getting bent out of shape about same-sex marriage, I can understand. But opposing reorganizing US medicine in a way that would directly benefit them?

bike racer opines on cost of injury.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/DmNGFY3Kq2U

I don’t get it Keith.

[Ted Hoppe]

We are getting exactly the government we deserve. Many of the problems we have are self inflicted. Many would rather not open doors.

[Keith Wilson]

Many of the problems we have are self inflicted.

Yes, sure. (I was going to say 'Well, DUH!", but that seemed unnecessarily rude.) So why? What do we do about it?

[ron ll]

Yes, sure. (I was going to say 'Well, DUH!", but that seemed unnecessarily rude.) So why? What do we do about it?

Overturn Citizens United. But good luck with that.

[Keith Wilson]

It goes back further than that.

[ron ll]

There is so much dark money in politics these days, even the resemblance to democracy is dead.

[Keith Wilson]

There is so much dark money in politics these days, even the resemblance to democracy is dead.

Nah. It's a very big problem, for sure, but money does not equal votes, and votes still count.

[Ted Hoppe]

Yes, sure. (I was going to say 'Well, DUH!", but that seemed unnecessarily rude.) So why? What do we do about it?

I noticed fewer boomers are willing to share the burden, reduce their expectations or pay the way for others. Our own shortsightedness has by extension fueled unrealistic expectations to our own children and expressly shows lack of responsibilities for consequences caused by self indulgence. The me generation has spawned children and grandchildren who are self entitled and hardly have an understanding of hard, physical work. Depending where you are on the boomer spectrum, the later boomers do not usually have a pension, are counting on family inheritance to maintain the semblance of success and are winding back their own expectations for old age. That is a serious change from what our parents have/had.

I have no idea how to turn this back. Few to none of us wants to share what we have with others often including our own families. I also noticed that given a choice those in our community, others will take everything of value we have including our vote in exchange for lip service promises, calls for false economic equality and added fees.

[Too Little Time]

bike racer opines on cost of injury.

I watch many of the Northern California bike race videos. And I had seen his comments about the cost of his injury.

The pricing situation is not as straight forward as the video would like us to believe. If you look at the price the various insurers have negotiated for typical procedures (those are on line for some service providers and a few groups have compared prices within regions), you will see a great difference. That is because the insurers don't care about the cost of any procedure. They care about the total amount that they pay out.

There were probably other insurers who would have paid considerably less for the same procedure at the same service provider. And had the injured had no insurance he could have negotiated a lower price.

[Art Haberland]

A 50 year old was born in 1972, 30 years after the war. Is that still a boomer?

Nope. a 50 year old is firmly in GenerationX. The "feral" generation. The Latchkey Generation. The "meh" generation

[Dave Wright]

I noticed fewer boomers are willing to share the burden, reduce their expectations or pay the way for others..

Are you familiar with any sort of volunteer service organization, Lions, Rotary, etc.? If you were you would get some insight into how much sharing actually takes place.

[Too Little Time]

I noticed fewer boomers are willing to share the burden, reduce their expectations or pay the way for others. Our own shortsightedness has by extension fueled unrealistic expectations to our own children and expressly shows lack of responsibilities for consequences caused by self indulgence. The me generation has spawned children and grandchildren who are self entitled and hardly have an understanding of hard, physical work. Depending where you are on the boomer spectrum, the later boomers do not usually have a pension, are counting on family inheritance to maintain the semblance of success and are winding back their own expectations for old age. That is a serious change from what our parents have/had.

I have no idea how to turn this back. Few to none of us wants to share what we have with others often including our own families. I also noticed that given a choice those in our community, others will take everything of value we have including our vote in exchange for lip service promises, calls for false economic equality and added fees.

I am sure there are individuals and families like those you describe. And I know some. But I also know those who are just the opposite. They have raised their families to be generous and to share not only within the family but within the community.

Your comment about family inheritance causes me to remember my daughter's comments: When she retires, she is going to live off of her parent's money. On the other hand: She encourages her mother to give to others.

[Keith Wilson]

I noticed fewer boomers are willing to share the burden, reduce their expectations or pay the way for others. Our own shortsightedness has by extension fueled unrealistic expectations to our own children and expressly shows lack of responsibilities for consequences caused by self indulgence. The me generation has spawned children and grandchildren who are self entitled and hardly have an understanding of hard, physical work. Depending where you are on the boomer spectrum, the later boomers do not usually have a pension, are counting on family inheritance to maintain the semblance of success and are winding back their own expectations for old age. That is a serious change from what our parents have/had.

I have no idea how to turn this back. Few to none of us wants to share what we have with others often including our own families. I also noticed that given a choice those in our community, others will take everything of value we have including our vote in exchange for lip service promises, calls for false economic equality and added fees.

The complaint that people are less virtuous than they used to be is one human characteristic that seems to be constant throughout all of recorded history. I think it's almost always wrong.

[David G]

The complaint that people are less virtuous than they used to be is one human characteristic that seems to be constant throughout all of recorded history. I think it's almost always wrong.

It's what happens when the ahistorical make pronouncements about history.

[Ted Hoppe]

Are you familiar with any sort of volunteer service organization, Lions, Rotary, etc.? If you were you would get some insight into how much sharing actually takes place.

The complaint that people are less virtuous than they used to be is one human characteristic that seems to be constant throughout all of recorded history. I think it's almost always wrong.

The attack of social clubs and community organizations designed to build sense of community and purpose are in serious decline. According the Lions club, Rotary and Elks they admit they are in serious decline.

https://lionmagazine.org/articles/al...%20involvement.
Like anything in life, membership ebbs and flows — growing in some areas, while declining in others. Prior to the 1980s, North American membership was strong, with nearly 571,000 members in Constitutional Area (CA) 1 and 54,000-plus in CA 2. Despite the best efforts of many Lion leaders, we’ve seen a steady decline in North American membership over the past 40 years. There are plenty of factors that contribute to this trend, including lifestyle changes and overall levels of community involvement.

I note the attacks on many community organizations like the boy scouts and shattering the way we build citizens. If you bring up scouting here on the forum, what you will find its members attacking it as a large pediphile ring rathe than the important organization it is.. Moreover few here would ever advocate their own children join scouting, in military service or even join the local police force - depicted as killers, goons, buffoons or worse. If we keep devaluing those who chose to serve and will not step up ourselves, our children to make this community better - why would any body else. Many of our fellow boomers are so entitled but do complain while they let others other take responsibility and blame for it's ills. I rare see boomers step up later in life. we do not mentor much and we rarely show others what true community responsibility looks like. Rarer evidenced here still. Then again few people that busy wouldn't have time for a heavy social media site like this.

I am writing this post prepping to cook Thanksgiving dinner in Virginia Beach for 10 navy sailors who could not go home for the holidays due to their service to our country. I also note 3 of them are not citizens but yet serve, they represent a large part of the enlisted service because many of your own children were steered away and now are too busy playing playstation and chasing dollars in social media rather than directly building a better community and world

[Durnik]

Baby Boomers comprised the ridiculous right - sometimes erroneously (humorously/sarcastically/ironically?) called 'religious right', and Baby Boomers comprised the fools who did - & still do - say 'we have to respect their opinions', so yes, in too many ways, Baby Boomers - actively & passively - did this..

and if the two of you (you know who) can't see the increase in greed/selfishness on going (in spite of how wonderfully sparkly pink unicorns things are that any charts proclaim), well, that might be a big part of the problem.. 'cause you can't fix a problem you deny exists.

I know people who live on the street.. every moment, a challenge.. people - too many old/elderly - who live, and have died - too often alone - in derelict trailers/mobil homes etc, trying to stay warm.. trying to curb hunger.. no access at all to any form of health care.. and more - and all this in 'the wealthiest nation on earth'.

and to cut off at the pass those who would loudly (piously/virtuously) proclaim - 'We Have Programs to Help Them', NO. there aren't programs to help them, there are programs designed to assuage the guilt of those who are lucky in plenty.. programs requiring actions & understanding those who suffer have no idea or understanding of. truthfully we live in a culture that intentionally creates a class of suffering, both to ensure that as much profit is extracted for the benefit of the ATFW as possible, and to serve as a warning to those who might take chances on life - 'beware this doesn't befall you!' - and most ignore this. 'The ones who walk away' was not written in a vacuum.

but those lucky won't see this.. after all - sarcasm alert! - it's entirely their hard work that has created such plenty for them. recently, elsewhere, a member observed they were well aware their good fortune/ease in life came on the backs/suffering of millions. for thanksgiving, I challenge those lucky in birth to make that your mantra..


this has been a u.s. centric post.. not entirely ironically, it were an antipodean who observed knowledge of their fortune coming on the backs of many.

color me the lorax, I speak for the voiceless.

Oh, Happy Thanksgiving.

[L.W. Baxter]

... a 50 year old is firmly in GenerationX. The "feral" generation.

hey! it's nice to finally be understood.

[David G]

Baby Boomers comprised the ridiculous right - sometimes erroneously (humorously/sarcastically/ironically?) called 'religious right', and Baby Boomers comprised the fools who did - & still do - say 'we have to respect their opinions', so yes, in too many ways, Baby Boomers - actively & passively - did this..

and if the two of you (you know who) can't see the increase in greed/selfishness on going (in spite of how wonderfully sparkly pink unicorns things are that any charts proclaim), well, that might be a big part of the problem.. 'cause you can't fix a problem you deny exists.

I know people who live on the street.. every moment, a challenge.. people - too many old/elderly - who live, and have died - too often alone - in derelict trailers/mobil homes etc, trying to stay warm.. trying to curb hunger.. no access at all to any form of health care.. and more - and all this in 'the wealthiest nation on earth'.

and to cut off at the pass those who would loudly (piously/virtuously) proclaim - 'We Have Programs to Help Them', NO. there aren't programs to help them, there are programs designed to assuage the guilt of those who are lucky in plenty.. programs requiring actions & understanding those who suffer have no idea or understanding of. truthfully we live in a culture that intentionally creates a class of suffering, both to ensure that as much profit is extracted for the benefit of the ATFW as possible, and to serve as a warning to those who might take chances on life - 'beware this doesn't befall you!' - and most ignore this. 'The ones who walk away' was not written in a vacuum.

but those lucky won't see this.. after all - sarcasm alert! - it's entirely their hard work that has created such plenty for them. recently, elsewhere, a member observed they were well aware their good fortune/ease in life came on the backs/suffering of millions. for thanksgiving, I challenge those lucky in birth to make that your mantra..


this has been a u.s. centric post.. not entirely ironically, it were an antipodean who observed knowledge of their fortune coming on the backs of many.

color me the lorax, I speak for the voiceless.

Oh, Happy Thanksgiving.

You are on the right track when you say conditions are worsening. So your concerns are not unfounded. But they are poorly calibrated. Due, I suspect, to lack of historical perspective and personal experience in the trenches.

I assume I'm one of the 'two of you' whose efforts to recalibrate your perspective you regard as being 'in denial'. The fact that you would so wildly mischaracterize positions I have articulated repeatedly, and in detail, is further evidence of your being off-target.

[John Smith]

Baby Boomers comprised the ridiculous right - sometimes erroneously (humorously/sarcastically/ironically?) called 'religious right', and Baby Boomers comprised the fools who did - & still do - say 'we have to respect their opinions', so yes, in too many ways, Baby Boomers - actively & passively - did this..

and if the two of you (you know who) can't see the increase in greed/selfishness on going (in spite of how wonderfully sparkly pink unicorns things are that any charts proclaim), well, that might be a big part of the problem.. 'cause you can't fix a problem you deny exists.

I know people who live on the street.. every moment, a challenge.. people - too many old/elderly - who live, and have died - too often alone - in derelict trailers/mobil homes etc, trying to stay warm.. trying to curb hunger.. no access at all to any form of health care.. and more - and all this in 'the wealthiest nation on earth'.

and to cut off at the pass those who would loudly (piously/virtuously) proclaim - 'We Have Programs to Help Them', NO. there aren't programs to help them, there are programs designed to assuage the guilt of those who are lucky in plenty.. programs requiring actions & understanding those who suffer have no idea or understanding of. truthfully we live in a culture that intentionally creates a class of suffering, both to ensure that as much profit is extracted for the benefit of the ATFW as possible, and to serve as a warning to those who might take chances on life - 'beware this doesn't befall you!' - and most ignore this. 'The ones who walk away' was not written in a vacuum.

but those lucky won't see this.. after all - sarcasm alert! - it's entirely their hard work that has created such plenty for them. recently, elsewhere, a member observed they were well aware their good fortune/ease in life came on the backs/suffering of millions. for thanksgiving, I challenge those lucky in birth to make that your mantra..


this has been a u.s. centric post.. not entirely ironically, it were an antipodean who observed knowledge of their fortune coming on the backs of many.

color me the lorax, I speak for the voiceless.

Oh, Happy Thanksgiving.

I'm not sure I agree. Right wing radio, FOX news, and such have created the whackos. If no one told the public lies, none of the public would be able to believe them.

[Bflat]

The complaint that people are less virtuous than they used to be is one human characteristic that seems to be constant throughout all of recorded history. I think it's almost always wrong.

I recall reading that "kids these days" was a fairly common subject of ancient Roman graffiti.

[Garret]

I'm not sure I agree. Right wing radio, FOX news, and such have created the whackos. If no one told the public lies, none of the public would be able to believe them.

Not true IMO. They've always been there, but have been given voice by them. In addition, Trump made it OK to be a self-serving, hate anyone who's different jerk. Actually, he made it something to be proud of.

Look back to the Know Nothings. Same deal, different century. They just didn't have the instant exposure made available by today's "media".

[Too Little Time]

The complaint that people are less virtuous than they used to be is one human characteristic that seems to be constant throughout all of recorded history. I think it's almost always wrong.

It's what happens when the ahistorical make pronouncements about history.

It is hard to know much about history. 99% of history has been lost. Or so some say.

The illiterate and the poor tend to be uninteresting as far as their contributions to history runs. What we know about usually concerns "interesting" people. And most of that is biased.

The millionaire next door is perhaps a good model. You don't know him. You don't know his virtues. And he is happy with that.

[Kevin T]

Well, thinking about it a bit more, that's an interesting point. So why do evangelical Christians, or rural folks, or southerners, oppose universal health care? Getting bent out of shape about same-sex marriage, I can understand. But opposing reorganizing how we pay for medical care in the US in a way that would directly benefit them?

Because within the various cohorts you cite include a portion of their tribe who can't stand it if they believe that someone is getting something without working for it.

Blinded by this angst and having it constantly reinforced by Faux News Corp put them into the quintessential definition of "cutting off one's nose to spite one's face."

[Garret]

Ted -

Lions, Rotary, etc. have kept themselves outdated by remaining old white Christian as the world changes around them. The Boy Scouts were awful for me - starting me on my "never trust anyone in authority" belief. In addition, their militaristic regimentation is anathema to a tolerant understanding world.

Just my opinion of course.

[Nicholas Carey]

This is getting a bit silly. There are a lot of factors that correlate with voting for conservatives in the US, some quote strongly, and age is only one.
- Older people tend to vote for conservatives more.

And there's a pretty linear relationship between age and voter turnout, so older people are disproportionately reflected in the effective electorate.

That's especially true for off-year and special elections.

One of the big reasons it's difficult to pass things like tax levies for schools. Older voters turn out and their kids are already through the public education system: "I got mine, but you're on your own."

The real problem is that the US right wing has gone completely bonkers.

That, too.

Well, thinking about it a bit more, that's an interesting point. So why do evangelical Christians, or rural folks, or southerners, oppose universal health care? Getting bent out of shape about same-sex marriage, I can understand. But opposing reorganizing how we pay for medical care in the US in a way that would directly benefit them?

My take? They've got good/OK health insurance, probably through their employer. And the thought is fundamentally, "I got mine, Why should my taxes go to giving other people a break?"

[Never mind that a single payer system would lower the overall amount that they spend on healthcare, and fail to consider that employer-paid/funded health insurance is money spent by their employer that could/would otherwise go to wages and salary. Analytic skills . . . not a real strong point.]

[LeeG]

Ok and when we’re gone who is to blame?

[Keith Wilson]

And there's a pretty linear relationship between age and voter turnout, so older people are disproportionately reflected in the effective electorate. That's especially true for off-year and special elections.

Historically true, and still true, but decreasing recently. One could say that you can lay the blame at the feet of younger people, because they can't be bothered to vote - and it would be almost as plausible.

[Dave Wright]

Baby Boomers comprised the ridiculous right - sometimes erroneously (humorously/sarcastically/ironically?) called 'religious right', and Baby Boomers comprised the fools who did - & still do - say 'we have to respect their opinions', so yes, in too many ways, Baby Boomers - actively & passively - did this..

and if the two of you (you know who) can't see the increase in greed/selfishness on going (in spite of how wonderfully sparkly pink unicorns things are that any charts proclaim), well, that might be a big part of the problem.. 'cause you can't fix a problem you deny exists.

I know people who live on the street.. every moment, a challenge.. people - too many old/elderly - who live, and have died - too often alone - in derelict trailers/mobil homes etc, trying to stay warm.. trying to curb hunger.. no access at all to any form of health care.. and more - and all this in 'the wealthiest nation on earth'.

and to cut off at the pass those who would loudly (piously/virtuously) proclaim - 'We Have Programs to Help Them', NO. there aren't programs to help them, there are programs designed to assuage the guilt of those who are lucky in plenty.. programs requiring actions & understanding those who suffer have no idea or understanding of. truthfully we live in a culture that intentionally creates a class of suffering, both to ensure that as much profit is extracted for the benefit of the ATFW as possible, and to serve as a warning to those who might take chances on life - 'beware this doesn't befall you!' - and most ignore this. 'The ones who walk away' was not written in a vacuum.

but those lucky won't see this.. after all - sarcasm alert! - it's entirely their hard work that has created such plenty for them. recently, elsewhere, a member observed they were well aware their good fortune/ease in life came on the backs/suffering of millions. for thanksgiving, I challenge those lucky in birth to make that your mantra..


this has been a u.s. centric post.. not entirely ironically, it were an antipodean who observed knowledge of their fortune coming on the backs of many.

color me the lorax, I speak for the voiceless.

Oh, Happy Thanksgiving.

I don't agree with a lot of what you say.

I belong to a local club whose membership has doubled in the past five year, a club that has donated thousands of pounds of food, thousands of dollars of scholarships, and completed many civic enhancements. The bulk of the grunt work is done by baby boomers, mainly because they are retired and not tied to long hours at jobs as are the younger members.

Every time I read your gloom I actually think that you enjoy your gloominess. There's work to do if you're interested in doing it.

[Paul Pless]

Ok and when we’re gone who is to blame?

these guys

[Ted Hoppe]

Ted -

Lions, Rotary, etc. have kept themselves outdated by remaining old white Christian as the world changes around them. The Boy Scouts were awful for me - starting me on my "never trust anyone in authority" belief. In addition, their militaristic regimentation is anathema to a tolerant understanding world.

Just my opinion of course.

I can understand the dislike and distrust of these institutions. Hating things because of historical precedent seems to throw the baby out with the bath water. Most of these associations have really good intentions. Not advocating for any of them and not facilitating new ones to replace them means there is nothing left. Not having good men teaching younger males their responsibility if detrimental to our society and community. In a way, not having the best of men and women leading and mentoring our next generation for the future of leadership and responsibility is a very foolish way forward. We can only blame ourselves on why we did not do better to help them and help ourselves by that actions.

[McMike]

a tad self centered though

Right, so I'll bit because it's the long weekend and I'm feeling saucy.

Fart.

[Garret]

I can understand the dislike and distrust of these institutions. Hating things because of historical precedent seems to throw the baby out with the bath water. Most of these associations have really good intentions. Not advocating for any of them and not facilitating new ones to replace them means there is nothing left. Not having good men teaching younger males their responsibility if detrimental to our society and community. In a way, not having the best of men and women leading and mentoring our next generation for the future of leadership and responsibility is a very foolish way forward. We can only blame ourselves on why we did not do better to help them and help ourselves by that actions.

I do not hate any of them - particularly Lions, Rotary, etc. What I was trying to say about them is that they have made themselves less & less relevant.

Scouts are a different story. I know many gained a lot from Boy Scouts - but I gained nothing but cynicism. Having caring adults work with kids is huge & for sure needs to be encouraged - but it has to be the right adults. I went to a summer camp that not only encouraged kids to learn, but gave them real opportunities to do so. I learned & grew more from one month at the camp than I did from 2 years in Scouts. It's all about the people.

[LeeG]

these guys

damn I missed that one.