Results 1 to 21 of 21

Thread: Newbie with Lots of Questions

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2022
    Location
    Manahawkin, NJ
    Posts
    2

    Default Newbie with Lots of Questions

    I've been searching the forum and have found a lot of useful information so far when it comes to First Builds. It seems everyone has their own set of questions they are looking to be answered and I find myself in the same situation.

    To start with, I am a carpenter/builder of new homes and large home renovations so I am familiar with reading blueprints. I also have made furniture for quite a while so I am somewhat familiar with woodworking and have a decent (but small) shop to work from, so from that standpoint, I am not a newbie when it comes to woodworking, just in boat building.

    I've lived on Barnegat Bay most of my life and have always had a spot in my heart for sneak boxes and garveys. I do a lot of fly fishing in the back bays and love the stability practicality of a garvey. I've owned a few in the past and kind of know what I am looking for. As such, I have decided to build a Ben Garvey 19'. Not a lot of posts specifically related to this build so I figured I would ask.

    I received the plans a few weeks ago and have spent quite a few hours since pouring over the details. My first comment was that I was kind of surprised there were not more step by step instructions. The more I look at and absorb the details of the drawings the more it comes together, but there are still a lot of holes as to how to proceed.

    My first concern is doing the build outside. My shop is not big enough to accommodate my bench, machinery and tools AND a 19' boat. I guess boats have been built outside for a long long time, so I am assuming this won't be an issue (as long as I pay attention to temperatures regarding epoxy and resins).

    Second question is regarding the construction of the molds. I am guessing that each station mold is constructed using the info on the offset chart. The chart indicates offsets to the outside of planking. Am I to assume that you back off the thickness of the planking from these numbers to get your mold size?

    The instructions also talk about a center string notched into the ladder rungs but it seems that from the drawings it is notched into the spall at the top (bottom?) of the mold which represents the construction baseline. This makes more sense to me as it gives a baseline to measure from down the entire length.

    I guess my last question (at least for this post) is the general progression of the build. Obviously the ladder is constructed, then the molds, then the molds are attached to the ladder. At that point is the planking applied to the sides and hull? Then bow and transom? Are the chines then glassed from the outside to give its shape, then molds removed and the work is then done on the inside? Again, I am confused somewhat about the entire general step by step.

    I did order Boatbuilding Manual by Robert Steward which was recommended in the instructions and I hoping this will clear a lot of things up for me. In the meantime, I figured I could pick your collective brains.

    Thanks in advance for your patience and help.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Mountains of Ocooch
    Posts
    1,382

    Default Re: Newbie with Lots of Questions

    I'd build a model first. I've done that before when I've had need of grasping what would be involved in constructing structures I've found a need for. As a builder yourself you understand how your approach to structures affects how a finish carpenter has to approach his tasks when the time comes, or roofers. I suspect you have some input too with your foundation providers so you can plan ahead for what you'll be doing with what they leave you.

    Building boats isn't quite like building structures though some of the tools & techniques are the same.

    There's a brief thread here from a few years back that didn't seem to get too deeply into the subject.

    WBS offers study plans you may find helpful too, from which you probably can get enough info to do a model.

    As for your questions... yes you can build outside. You need to anticipate weather, how it affects your schedule as well as materials. Likely need a roof at minimum, maybe some kind of temporary skirting (6 mil polyethylene sheet tacked over temporary frames) if windblown rain threatens. Something underneath to keep your feet out of the mud too, and your building frame square & true.

    Yes, if your offsets indicate molds are described to the outside of the hull, you need to deduct your expected planking thickness for the molds' outlines.

    As for strings... I've found a laser level to be a helpful modern equivalent that doesn't get quite as much in the way as a traditional string. That centerline on your ladder serves the same purpose as chalk lines in your framing jobs. It's a baseline guide from which dimensions are measured during construction so that things end up in the right place at the right time. Square, plumb and true has a place in boat-building just as with putting up a building.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Sound Beach, NY
    Posts
    5,151

    Default Re: Newbie with Lots of Questions

    Welcome aboard!
    I think you have a pretty good grasp of it, and Boatbuilding Manual will help. There may be other books too, nothing comes to mind right now. Maybe Glen L's Plywood Boat Building. You can build outside, I did on a couple boats, my dad did on his last three. When you read the books and get started, things will fall into place.
    Good luck, keep us posted.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Walney, near Cumbria UK
    Posts
    59,491

    Default Re: Newbie with Lots of Questions

    Hi, and welcome to the Forum.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bayviewrr View Post

    My first concern is doing the build outside. My shop is not big enough to accommodate my bench, machinery and tools AND a 19' boat. I guess boats have been built outside for a long long time, so I am assuming this won't be an issue (as long as I pay attention to temperatures regarding epoxy and resins).
    When boats were built outside, a bit of damp did not matter. You will need to keep your timber dry during the build, so a temporary roof and side curtains are a must, or build a Bow shed. http://www.microcruising.com/shed.htm

    Second question is regarding the construction of the molds. I am guessing that each station mold is constructed using the info on the offset chart. The chart indicates offsets to the outside of planking. Am I to assume that you back off the thickness of the planking from these numbers to get your mold size?
    If you are working from a table of offsetts, you might be wise to loft the hull as staed on the WB Shop website. That will find and correct any errors. You will then have drawings of the station moulds full size to aid assembling the moulds. That will also give you guidance on how much to take off for the plank, allowing for the bevels.

    The instructions also talk about a center string notched into the ladder rungs but it seems that from the drawings it is notched into the spall at the top (bottom?) of the mold which represents the construction baseline. This makes more sense to me as it gives a baseline to measure from down the entire length.
    Use the string to mark (scribe) the cl down the ladder on the rungs. If the mould stations do not land on the ladder rungs, leave the string in place.

    I guess my last question (at least for this post) is the general progression of the build. Obviously the ladder is constructed, then the molds, then the molds are attached to the ladder. At that point is the planking applied to the sides and hull? Then bow and transom? Are the chines then glassed from the outside to give its shape, then molds removed and the work is then done on the inside? Again, I am confused somewhat about the entire general step by step.

    I did order Boatbuilding Manual by Robert Steward which was recommended in the instructions and I hoping this will clear a lot of things up for me. In the meantime, I figured I could pick your collective brains.

    Thanks in advance for your patience and help.
    I think that the order of build will be:
    • Loft the hull.
    • Build the moulds and make angle brackets to set the transoms in place. If there are bow and stern knees called for, make them from the lines on the lofting.
    • If you have to for space to work, lift the panels that you used for the lofting and put them aside.
    • Build and level your ladder.
    • Erect the moulds and the two transoms.
    • Erect the chine battens and keel/hog, allowing for the bevels.
    • Fair the bevels on the chine battens, moulds and transoms using a long clear grained batten.
    • Hang the side planking, leaving green on at the chines.
    • Fair the bottom round the chines, moulds, transoms and hog/keel.
    • Plank the bottom.
    • Then, you should be able to flip the boat, ensuring that she is chocked up level and without twist.
    • Carry on with the outfit.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

    The power of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web
    The weakness of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Mountain lakes of Vermont
    Posts
    18,047

    Default Re: Newbie with Lots of Questions

    With your background, you'll have no problem building the boat.
    Some plans are sold with instructions, some not. It is assumed that the builder knows
    how to read them.
    What you lack is that knowledge. Reading a book or two on the subject, especially for the type of boat you're building, will be of immense help.
    Don't worry, all things will fall into place.
    Lots of good suggestions in the above posts.
    Most important, enjoy yourself building this boat!
    I was born on a wooden boat that I built myself.
    Skiing is the next best thing to having wings.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    South Puget Sound/summer Eastern carib./winter
    Posts
    22,584

    Default Re: Newbie with Lots of Questions

    A scale model , or 4, that utilizes complete construction.
    "Matt board", a heavy cardboard from art supply store ,in lieu of plywood for the model
    If your plans are old, (I am not familiar with the boat),there may be numerous methods that can be modernized.
    "Aquatek" /"Hydrotek" plywood is your friend .Resist fir ply and ocoume ply.
    Your sanding tools may want an upgrade. There is no place in boatbuilding for a beltsander, for instance.(maybe sharpening a banger chisel).
    We are mostly bored out of our minds with so few boats being built here,and winter is comin, so expect a lotta help and advice.
    get up to speed on "amine blush".
    By the way, do you need any Dreadlock Moisturizer?
    Bruce
    Last edited by wizbang 13; 11-17-2022 at 09:12 AM.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    northeast Ohio
    Posts
    2,849

    Default Re: Newbie with Lots of Questions



    This one of the books in my library that I found very useful.
    There are others....
    Depends on what boat you pick and how you want to build it.

    Buying a pre-cut kit will probably come with some kind of how to, and when to do it, manual.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    northeast Ohio
    Posts
    2,849

    Default Re: Newbie with Lots of Questions



    One more to study.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Branchville, NJ
    Posts
    329

    Default Re: Newbie with Lots of Questions

    If you're not, become a member of Off Center Harbor Boat Videos, Wooden Boat Building | Sailing, Docking & Rowing a Boat (offcenterharbor.com) Search through their building videos. Their's a crazy amount of info there.
    David Satter www.sattersrestoration.com
    "The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten" Ben Franklin

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Central New Jersey
    Posts
    1,233

    Default Re: Newbie with Lots of Questions

    Bayviewrr,

    Great choice of a vessel fit for purpose, the environment and it is a "native" of the area. I will follow your thread with interest. I launch my sailboat out of Tribe's Landing, perhaps we'll meet on the bay.

    Tom

    Skal Sandy at Trixie's.jpeg
    Steamboat

    I get by with the judicious use of serendipity.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Guerilla Bay, NSW, Australia
    Posts
    614

    Default Re: Newbie with Lots of Questions

    Hi newbie,
    Good idea to land on this forum & ask questions :-)
    1. I build outside under a pergola (not sure if that's what they're called across the pond.............) and that is fine apart from when its gets very cold (not often as I live on the Pacific coast) or when the large pythons decide to visit!
    2. What you are referring to as a ladder may well be what I call a strongback. I have found that I-frame joists for house floors make excellent strongbacks when joined with cross beams and diagonals.
    3. as someone else suggested join OCH - their videos are brill, especially those made by Geoff Kerr - at least for me because I build glued clinker boats.
    4. Avery useful book for me has been that by Iain Oughtred, and the one written by Greg Rossel.
    5. Keep asking questions and join with some local if you have some. I have learnt most of my meagre skills from one guy who lives 5 minutes from my house - he is building his 14th boat - from Huon pine!
    6. Good Luck
    7. This will be your 1st boat - more will follow!

    Regards Neil

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    713

    Default Re: Newbie with Lots of Questions

    The only issue you might have is the lofting, myself I have over the years had problems finding a good place to loft. It is really hard to loft outdoors. one of the reasons to loft a boat is not just to check the the table of offsets but to able to subtract the correct thickness for the planking as the planking rarely intersects the molds or frames at 90 degrees. Many boats have been built without lofting, build everything with a fudge factor and fair it up as you go. I find the the ability to draw it then build it one of the true joys of boatbuilding.
    OCH has a great series on lofting.
    Last edited by ShorelineJohn; 11-17-2022 at 10:14 PM.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Vancouver BC Canada
    Posts
    1,029

    Default Re: Newbie with Lots of Questions

    Quick derail . what is the boat on the cover of this book??!!
    Quote Originally Posted by timo4352 View Post


    One more to study.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Wrocław, Poland
    Posts
    13,848

    Default Re: Newbie with Lots of Questions

    I think that may be Iain in his own Ness Yawl...?

    Tom
    Last edited by WI-Tom; 11-18-2022 at 09:22 AM.
    Ponoszenie konsekwencji!

    www.tompamperin.com

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Apr 1999
    Posts
    365

    Default Re: Newbie with Lots of Questions

    Pamperin wins!

    Front cover image: Ness Yawl, Jeanie II, photograph
    by Kathy Mansfield

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Wrocław, Poland
    Posts
    13,848

    Default Re: Newbie with Lots of Questions

    Woohoo! I'm a winner!

    Tom
    Ponoszenie konsekwencji!

    www.tompamperin.com

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Norwalk CT
    Posts
    2,868

    Default Re: Newbie with Lots of Questions

    Building Small Boats by Greg Rossel is an excellent reference for lofting, strongbacks etc.
    For a deep dive and an excellent treatise on lofting How to Build A Wooden Boat by Bud Mcintosh.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Central New Jersey
    Posts
    1,233

    Default Re: Newbie with Lots of Questions

    Philly seaport museum had a boatbuilding 101 class that spent most of its time on lofting but I don't know if they provide that any more.
    Steamboat

    I get by with the judicious use of serendipity.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Vancouver BC Canada
    Posts
    1,029

    Default Re: Newbie with Lots of Questions

    That is a very handsome boat, so curvaceous and beautiful

    Quote Originally Posted by WI-Tom View Post
    I think that may be Iain in his own Ness Yawl...?

    Tom

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Mountain lakes of Vermont
    Posts
    18,047

    Default Re: Newbie with Lots of Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by willin woodworks View Post
    Building Small Boats by Greg Rossel is an excellent reference for lofting, strongbacks etc.
    For a deep dive and an excellent treatise on lofting How to Build A Wooden Boat by Bud Mcintosh.
    Bud Macintosh's book was my bible when I built my traditionally built 20' gaff rigged sloop. It was even more valuable since it was built before the advent of this Forum. However, I don't recall it having much info on plywood building. It is a good source for lofting information plus it is a joy to read.
    I was born on a wooden boat that I built myself.
    Skiing is the next best thing to having wings.

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Nov 2022
    Location
    Manahawkin, NJ
    Posts
    2

    Default Re: Newbie with Lots of Questions

    I just wanted to express my sincere thanks and gratitude for all of the replies to my questions. Some great information and it just shows me how little I know.

    I will await the arrival of the book I ordered (got a shipping notice yesterday so it should be here soon). I also subscribed to Off Center Harbor and yes, there is a boatload of information there (pun intended).

    I will keep learning and I will return with more questions and guidance.

    Thanks again to all. Have a Happy Thanksgiving.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •