Page 1 of 3 12 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 35 of 92

Thread: Men are pigs, especially boat builders

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Entry Level
    Posts
    26,012

    Default Men are pigs, especially boat builders

    ‘We are outsiders’: the female boatbuilders of Instagram
    Building, fixing, de-rusting and refitting – women are making waves in the traditionally male-dominated boatbuilding industry and supporting each other on social media


    Even where there is gender parity, she says, it can still be more of a struggle for women – tools and workwear are often designed for men: “We need modifications but it doesn’t make us useless or weak.”

    https://www.theguardian.com/environm...s-of-instagram
    But remember, don't you dare offer unsolicited help!

    Which woman hasn’t been bombarded by unsolicited help from men?
    Rebecca Solnit


    . . . what it brings to mind is the time when, as a young grad student, I had a flat tire outside my apartment. I dug out the car manual, read the instructions on changing a flat, pulled out the spare and the jack, and began working through the steps, feeling capable and proud of myself for doing it. Just as I was tightening the last lug nuts – in the proper cross pattern, just like the manual said – my middle-aged-dude neighbor came out and gestured for me to hand him the wrench. I kick myself for it now, but at the time I automatically responded to the gesture by handing him the wrench, and he proceeded to go through the motions as if tightening the bolts himself, though they were already fully tightened. He said, ‘Good job’ and handed me back the damned wrench as if he were a priest conferring some kind of patriarchal benediction I never asked for. Decades later it still rankles, because it was the first time I’d ever changed a flat and I was enjoying the feeling of accomplishment before he inserted himself.”

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...solicited-help
    Poor thing changed her first tire in grad school. Some guy checked and said good job. What a swine. Can't you see how you hurt her so?
    If Russia wins, there will be no Ukraine; if Ukraine wins, there will be a new Russia.

    -- Dmytro Kuleba, Foreign Minister of Ukraine

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    northern Georgia, or Mississippi Delta USA
    Posts
    26,929

    Default Re: Men are pigs, especially boat builders

    My father had each of my sisters change a tire by herself before they started driving alone to make sure they wouldn't get stuck out somewhere with a flat.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Gulgong. Central west N.S.W. Australia
    Posts
    6,674

    Default Re: Men are pigs, especially boat builders

    My youngest daughter- then quite an inexperienced driver- pulled over to the side of a country road just on dark to look for something in the glovebox and as she did she drove against a big rock and pushed the tubeless tyre off the rim. No spare, and no phone reception. Eventually someone stopped and offered to call help for her as soon as they could get mobile reception. An hour later a tow truck showed up and took her and her car to the nearest small town, where everything was closed. He then refused to unload her car off his tow truck until she paid him seven hundred dollars. And then she had to sleep in her car and wait for the shop to open at 8.30 the next morning. I wish she'd just got someone to call me. It would have taken me a couple of hours to get there but it wouldn't have cost her a cent and she would have a bed here at home and a feed. Next time she'll do better. And I'd still like to have a little chat with that tow truck driver. JayInOz

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Location
    Gulf Islands B.C.
    Posts
    4,553

    Default Re: Men are pigs, especially boat builders

    Quote Originally Posted by JayInOz View Post
    My youngest daughter- then quite an inexperienced driver- pulled over to the side of a country road just on dark to look for something in the glovebox and as she did she drove against a big rock and pushed the tubeless tyre off the rim. No spare, and no phone reception. Eventually someone stopped and offered to call help for her as soon as they could get mobile reception. An hour later a tow truck showed up and took her and her car to the nearest small town, where everything was closed. He then refused to unload her car off his tow truck until she paid him seven hundred dollars. And then she had to sleep in her car and wait for the shop to open at 8.30 the next morning. I wish she'd just got someone to call me. It would have taken me a couple of hours to get there but it wouldn't have cost her a cent and she would have a bed here at home and a feed. Next time she'll do better. And I'd still like to have a little chat with that tow truck driver. JayInOz
    If I was there, I’d join you in your chat with the driver.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    South Puget Sound/summer Eastern carib./winter
    Posts
    22,593

    Default Re: Men are pigs, especially boat builders

    I never asked for. Decades later it still rankles, because it was the first time I’d ever changed a flat and I was enjoying the feeling of accomplishment before he inserted himself.”
    he inserted himself ?

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Wrocław, Poland
    Posts
    13,859

    Default Re: Men are pigs, especially boat builders

    Quote Originally Posted by wizbang 13 View Post
    I never asked for. Decades later it still rankles, because it was the first time I’d ever changed a flat and I was enjoying the feeling of accomplishment before he inserted himself.”
    he inserted himself ?
    Rebecca Solnit is a good writer, quite well known. Her word choice there was quite intentional.

    Tom
    Ponoszenie konsekwencji!

    www.tompamperin.com

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Wrocław, Poland
    Posts
    13,859

    Default Re: Men are pigs, especially boat builders

    Quote Originally Posted by Osborne Russell View Post
    Poor thing changed her first tire in grad school. Some guy checked and said good job. What a swine. Can't you see how you hurt her so?
    I must have missed the part where she wrote that it "hurt her so." (Probably because it's not there, eh?)

    Can you really not see why it "rankles" for her? (Look that word up if you think it has anything to do with being hurt). I"d suggest that if you can't see what she means, you are almost certainly part of the problem, OR.

    Tom
    Ponoszenie konsekwencji!

    www.tompamperin.com

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2000
    Location
    Portland, Maine
    Posts
    23,375

    Default Re: Men are pigs, especially boat builders

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy W View Post
    My father had each of my sisters change a tire by herself before they started driving alone to make sure they wouldn't get stuck out somewhere with a flat.
    We did that with our kids, too. And Mary made damn sure they could all drive a stick shift after an unpleasant situation she was in when she was a teenager.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    May 1999
    Location
    north queensland
    Posts
    2,935

    Default Re: Men are pigs, especially boat builders

    there may be sexism but then there's "reverse stupidity" for sure...I was living aboard Decatur in SE Qld. Guy off the boat in the adjoining slip made the comment that I was "too talented" when he was looking over the mast and boom coverings. he knew I had also built the boat. Couldn't he figure out that sewing up awnings and the such like is a pretty simple thing being all straight lines etc.?
    I took him to task over it and he offered me coffee by way of a peace offering. I dented his feelings just that bit more buy telling him I dont drink coffee...meh...the guy was doomed from the moment he opened his mouth.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    in Orygun
    Posts
    3,686

    Default Re: Men are pigs, especially boat builders

    What is the point of this thread?

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Auckland, NZ
    Posts
    303

    Default Re: Men are pigs, especially boat builders

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Gray View Post
    What is the point of this thread?
    Trying to get people to read the excellent article at its head: https://www.theguardian.com/environm...s-of-instagram

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Tacoma, WA
    Posts
    21,198

    Default Re: Men are pigs, especially boat builders

    Perhaps, instead of just taking the wrench, hr might have asked, “Need any help?”
    ITS CHAOS, BE KIND

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    2,293

    Default Re: Men are pigs, especially boat builders

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Gray View Post
    What is the point of this thread?
    misogyny . . . and the OP poster's insufferable arrogance.

    Other than that it's a hoot !!

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Berlin, Germany
    Posts
    507

    Default Re: Men are pigs, especially boat builders

    Quote Originally Posted by WI-Tom View Post
    I must have missed the part where she wrote that it "hurt her so." (Probably because it's not there, eh?)

    Can you really not see why it "rankles" for her? (Look that word up if you think it has anything to do with being hurt). I"d suggest that if you can't see what she means, you are almost certainly part of the problem, OR.

    Tom

    I second that Tom.
    Gruß, Günter

  15. #15
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Waikato. NewZealand
    Posts
    3,598

    Default Re: Men are pigs, especially boat builders

    I taught both of our boys to drive.
    BUT, before they ever got behind the wheel I pointed to a wheel and said..............
    "Take it off the car, then put it back on again".
    I don't think either one has had to change a tyre since, but at least they know how to.
    I once thought I was wrong, but I was wrong, I wasn't wrong.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    new zealand
    Posts
    6,082

    Default Re: Men are pigs, especially boat builders

    Quote Originally Posted by Bernadette View Post
    there may be sexism but then there's "reverse stupidity" for sure...I was living aboard Decatur in SE Qld. Guy off the boat in the adjoining slip made the comment that I was "too talented" when he was looking over the mast and boom coverings. he knew I had also built the boat. Couldn't he figure out that sewing up awnings and the such like is a pretty simple thing being all straight lines etc.?
    I took him to task over it and he offered me coffee by way of a peace offering. I dented his feelings just that bit more buy telling him I dont drink coffee...meh...the guy was doomed from the moment he opened his mouth.
    I have used that exact phrase (most definitely intended) as a compliment to people who have shown ridiculous amounts of skill and craftsmanship across a range of disciplines - as you've done with your builds. If I got taken to task for that, I'd be having a serious WTF moment! What am I missing?

    I have committed the cardinal sin of checking a young lady's wheel nuts after she'd done the business, and rather chauvinistically found that the wheel probably would have fallen off a short distance down the road - inadequately torqued, and not properly seated on the hub. I've done the same for a guy who looked like he was struggling with a wheel change. Should I just walk past something like that in the future - and hope nobody gets killed?

    Pete
    The Ignore feature, lowering blood pressure since 1862. Ahhhhhhh.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Rockford, IL
    Posts
    13,217

    Default Re: Men are pigs, especially boat builders

    My Oregon daughter can slap a set of tire chains on quicker than I can.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Hills of Vermont, USA
    Posts
    45,360

    Default Re: Men are pigs, especially boat builders

    The OP is precisely the attitude (condescending, patronizing, & arrogant) that's pissing these women off & I don't blame 'em a bit for that reaction.

    Who cares what the gender of a person doing a job is? Skill is skill & if anyone here will be honest, we've seen plenty of skilled women working alongside unskilled men - and getting paid less for the better work.

    On the tire - all you have to do is say "Hey - bummer on the tire - need a hand?"
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Connecticut, of the newer England.
    Posts
    12,989

    Default Re: Men are pigs, especially boat builders

    Quote Originally Posted by Robbie 2 View Post
    I taught both of our boys to drive.
    BUT, before they ever got behind the wheel I pointed to a wheel and said..............
    "Take it off the car, then put it back on again".
    I don't think either one has had to change a tyre since, but at least they know how to.
    I did same with the boy. When he finished I gave him a AAA card (common roadside assistance here in USA) and told him not to ever change a tire on the side of the road, call for help. Parking lot or flat level driveway ok but not on the roadside.
    Of course flats in modern tires are increasingly rare, but its a rite of passage sort of thing.
    "Visionary" is he who in every egg sees a carbonara.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Location
    Barrie, Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    7,043

    Default Re: Men are pigs, especially boat builders

    Yeah, women are so touchy touchy touchy, but they still generally expect the man to take the garbage out.

  21. #21
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    the hills
    Posts
    68,205

    Default Re: Men are pigs, especially boat builders

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Gray View Post
    What is the point of this thread?
    Osborne is feeling social.

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Wrocław, Poland
    Posts
    13,859

    Default Re: Men are pigs, especially boat builders

    Quote Originally Posted by Garret View Post
    The OP is precisely the attitude (condescending, patronizing, & arrogant) that's pissing these women off & I don't blame 'em a bit for that reaction.

    Who cares what the gender of a person doing a job is? Skill is skill & if anyone here will be honest, we've seen plenty of skilled women working alongside unskilled men - and getting paid less for the better work.

    On the tire - all you have to do is say "Hey - bummer on the tire - need a hand?"
    Yep--that's it exactly. Offering help is probably going to be appreciated even if not needed. "Offering" help in a way that indicates "because you're a female and you know it takes a Man to do that" is probably going to piss some people off.

    Tom
    Ponoszenie konsekwencji!

    www.tompamperin.com

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Nebraska
    Posts
    30,234

    Default Re: Men are pigs, especially boat builders

    Yeah, suspect we're all guilty... of something. Maybe too full of ourselves; maybe insecure, eh?

    Of course - this is just self-analysis.
    There's a lot of things they didn't tell me when I signed on with this outfit....

  24. #24
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    the hills
    Posts
    68,205

    Default Re: Men are pigs, especially boat builders

    Quote Originally Posted by George Jung View Post
    Yeah, suspect we're all guilty... of something. Maybe too full of ourselves; maybe insecure, eh?

    Of course - this is just self-analysis.
    I remember when I was a young guy living in a house with other young folks one female housemate said “men are such pigs” after a stretch of dificult situations. I was so offended. Then proceeded to do many of the things that would validate that view in the decade to come. I’m not a work in progress anymore.

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Nebraska
    Posts
    30,234

    Default Re: Men are pigs, especially boat builders

    Four daughters (the beatings will continue until morale improves) have proven.... therapeutic.
    There's a lot of things they didn't tell me when I signed on with this outfit....

  26. #26
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Entry Level
    Posts
    26,012

    Default Re: Men are pigs, especially boat builders

    Quote Originally Posted by epoxyboy View Post
    I have committed the cardinal sin of checking a young lady's wheel nuts after she'd done the business, and rather chauvinistically found that the wheel probably would have fallen off a short distance down the road - inadequately torqued, and not properly seated on the hub. I've done the same for a guy who looked like he was struggling with a wheel change. Should I just walk past something like that in the future - and hope nobody gets killed?
    It's good to check but not if it comes at the cost of someone's feelings.

    This guy didn't know he was dealing with a grad student with a fine sense for torque, who just read the owner's manual prior to changing her first tire.
    If Russia wins, there will be no Ukraine; if Ukraine wins, there will be a new Russia.

    -- Dmytro Kuleba, Foreign Minister of Ukraine

  27. #27
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Nebraska
    Posts
    30,234

    Default Re: Men are pigs, especially boat builders

    Come on, OR - the guy made an assumption, was condescending. He didn't ask; he told.

    HOw would you respond?
    There's a lot of things they didn't tell me when I signed on with this outfit....

  28. #28
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Entry Level
    Posts
    26,012

    Default Re: Men are pigs, especially boat builders

    Quote Originally Posted by George Jung View Post
    Come on, OR - the guy made an assumption, was condescending. He didn't ask; he told.

    HOw would you respond?
    "Gee, thanks! Never hurts to check again!"

    Was the guy's assumption warranted is issue 1; was her response warranted is issue 2.
    If Russia wins, there will be no Ukraine; if Ukraine wins, there will be a new Russia.

    -- Dmytro Kuleba, Foreign Minister of Ukraine

  29. #29
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Nebraska
    Posts
    30,234

    Default Re: Men are pigs, especially boat builders

    #1 no

    #2 maybe

    How'm I doing? Is this graded on a curve?
    There's a lot of things they didn't tell me when I signed on with this outfit....

  30. #30
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Wrocław, Poland
    Posts
    13,859

    Default Re: Men are pigs, especially boat builders

    Quote Originally Posted by Osborne Russell View Post
    "Gee, thanks! Never hurts to check again!"

    Was the guy's assumption warranted is issue 1; was her response warranted is issue 2.
    1. No.
    2. Yes.

    Do you get it now?

    One more:

    Is posting a thread-opener that mischaracterizes one of the best essayists of her generation as a whiny snowflake warranted? And then pretending that arrogant sexist behavior from men ISN'T cause for criticism?

    No.

    Tom
    Ponoszenie konsekwencji!

    www.tompamperin.com

  31. #31
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Wrocław, Poland
    Posts
    13,859

    Default Re: Men are pigs, especially boat builders

    Quote Originally Posted by George Jung View Post
    #1 no

    #2 maybe

    How'm I doing? Is this graded on a curve?
    I'd say you're at 50% correct there, George. Doing better than OR, at least!

    Tom
    Ponoszenie konsekwencji!

    www.tompamperin.com

  32. #32
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Nebraska
    Posts
    30,234

    Default Re: Men are pigs, especially boat builders

    Thanks. I think.
    There's a lot of things they didn't tell me when I signed on with this outfit....

  33. #33
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    n.c. tn
    Posts
    10,204

    Default Re: Men are pigs, especially boat builders

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Bow View Post
    Perhaps, instead of just taking the wrench, he might have asked, “Need any help?”
    seems so easy, too.. 20 whatever years after the concept of mansplainin', and some men still need it 'splained to them (that _was_ what 'mansplain' meant, riiight? 0-: ). I got lucky, 45 years ago in the military I had the "women can't.." attitude kicked out of me - it opened up my world.

    and in this case, she was done.. imma thinking commiseration over the problem - like we'd do with a guy (-: - is better.

    Quote Originally Posted by heimfried View Post
    I second that Tom.
    and carried!

    Quote Originally Posted by PatrickXavier View Post
    Trying to get people to read the excellent article at its head: https://www.theguardian.com/environm...s-of-instagram
    indeed.. and for some (-:, the following article - 'www.theguardian.com/world/2022/oct/20/rebecca-solnit-unwanted-approval-men-unsolicited-help'

  34. #34
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Bainbridge Island WA
    Posts
    5,320

    Default Re: Men are pigs, especially boat builders

    It's worth reading all of Rebecca Solnit's article. The bit OR pulled out is actually a story related to her by another woman and is used to illustrate a larger problem. The preceding paragraphs:

    Professor Sarah Detweiler told me, “I’m an artist. I often need to use hardware stores. I’ll ask, where are the caulk guns or some other such item. I didn’t ask how to use them, wasn’t running my project by anyone, and inevitably I’ll get ‘whatcha gonna do with that’ or ‘what you need that for’ and I’ll smile and say ‘what aisle?’ Male workers have gone so far as to walk me to them, stand in front of them blocking my way asking again what I’m working on as I couldn’t possibly know. I’ve had it happen nearly everywhere and hear it happening to other women all the time.”

    They discussed the defensiveness belittlement generates, the sense that you need to brandish your credentials and qualifications in the face of this, which happens when you’re treated over and over as incompetent, and of how a lifetime of it can breed undeserved self-doubt. One wondered if other women get, “an additional sense of demoralised deflation afterwards, even though the intellect tells you to ignore the subtle put down?,” adding that “sometimes it just wipes me out even though I know I’m capable and accomplished”.


    Male ego wants to step in a "help out the lil' lady" whether that help is solicited or not. A death by a thousand cuts situation, they all add up but the fragile male ego goes into butt-hurt mode as soon as it is pointed out.
    Steve

    If you would have a good boat, be a good guy when you build her - honest, careful, patient, strong.
    H.A. Calahan

  35. #35
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Western Washington
    Posts
    3,872

    Default Re: Men are pigs, especially boat builders

    Quote Originally Posted by stromborg View Post
    It's worth reading all of Rebecca Solnit's article. The bit OR pulled out is actually a story related to her by another woman and is used to illustrate a larger problem. The preceding paragraphs:

    Professor Sarah Detweiler told me, “I’m an artist. I often need to use hardware stores. I’ll ask, where are the caulk guns or some other such item. I didn’t ask how to use them, wasn’t running my project by anyone, and inevitably I’ll get ‘whatcha gonna do with that’ or ‘what you need that for’ and I’ll smile and say ‘what aisle?’ Male workers have gone so far as to walk me to them, stand in front of them blocking my way asking again what I’m working on as I couldn’t possibly know. I’ve had it happen nearly everywhere and hear it happening to other women all the time.”

    They discussed the defensiveness belittlement generates, the sense that you need to brandish your credentials and qualifications in the face of this, which happens when you’re treated over and over as incompetent, and of how a lifetime of it can breed undeserved self-doubt. One wondered if other women get, “an additional sense of demoralised deflation afterwards, even though the intellect tells you to ignore the subtle put down?,” adding that “sometimes it just wipes me out even though I know I’m capable and accomplished”.


    Male ego wants to step in a "help out the lil' lady" whether that help is solicited or not. A death by a thousand cuts situation, they all add up but the fragile male ego goes into butt-hurt mode as soon as it is pointed out.

    There's a simple solution for Detweiler, she can simply tell the interfering man to f*ck off, and go about her business.

    True competence gets on with job at hand and is not at all bothered by the momentary interference. Based upon her reaction, I almost think she might really doubt her competence, and that's too bad.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •