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Thread: Men are pigs, especially boat builders

  1. #71
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    Default Re: Men are pigs, especially boat builders

    Go for it Tommy! You need opponents so badly you create them.

    Many intelligent women have commented on Solnit's "mansplaining." Go after them if you're so keen on fighting. For example:

    Why I Donít Read Rebecca Solnit

    Itís time to stop buying into the author's brand of pop feminism

    BY VIVIANE FAIRBANK

    https://thewalrus.ca/why-i-dont-read-rebecca-solnit/


  2. #72
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    Default Re: Men are pigs, especially boat builders

    Quote Originally Posted by Robbie 2 View Post
    The last "Lady" I opened and held open a door for..................
    Stopped, turned to me and asked "What the f..k do you want"? !!!
    I open doors for people all the time in the US, for both men and women,
    and never once had that experience. Rather, I get tons of smiles and thanks.

    Maybe things are different in Aotearoa, but I doubt it.

    Or are you just trying to make empowered women look bad ??

  3. #73
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    Default Re: Men are pigs, especially boat builders

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Wright View Post
    Go for it Tommy! You need opponents so badly you create them.
    I'm not looking for "opponents" just because I call OR on his BS when he posts lies. To get back to the point:

    Did any of the links OR posted say "Men are pigs" or did OR make that up?

    Did any of them accuse "all men" of being sexist, or did he make that up?

    Did any of them say (or imply) that boat builders are more likely to be sexist than other employers, or did he make that up?

    Now ask yourself this:

    Why is OR making sh!t up? And why are some posters on this thread falling for his BS?

    As for Solnit, opinions vary--she has her detractors and supporters, like anyone does:

    Solnit has received two NEA fellowships for Literature, a Guggenheim Fellowship, a Creative Capital Award, a Lannan literary fellowship, and a 2004 Wired Rave Award for writing on the effects of technology on the arts and humanities.[20] In 2010, Utne Reader magazine named Solnit as one of the "25 Visionaries Who Are Changing Your World".[21] Her The Faraway Nearby (2013) was nominated for a National Book Award,[22] and shortlisted for the 2013 National Book Critics Circle Award.[23][24]New York Times book critic Dwight Garner called Solnit "the kind of rugged, off-road public intellectual America doesn't produce often enough. ... Solnit's writing, at its worst, can be dithering and self-serious, Joan Didion without the concision and laser-guided wit. At her best, however [...] she has a rare gift: the ability to turn the act of cognition, of arriving at a coherent point of view, into compelling moral drama."[25]
    For River of Shadows, Solnit was honored with the 2004 National Book Critics Circle Award in Criticism[26] and the 2004 Sally Hacker Prize from the Society for the History of Technology, which honors exceptional scholarship that reaches beyond the academy toward a broad audience.[27] Solnit was also awarded Harvard's Mark Lynton History Prize in 2004 for River of Shadows.[28] Solnit was awarded the 2015-16 Corlis Benefideo Award for Imaginative Cartography by the North American Cartographic Information Society [29] Solnit's book, Call Them By Their True Names: American Crises, won the 2018 Kirkus Prize for Nonfiction.[30] She won the 2019 Windham–Campbell Literature Prize in Non-Fiction.[31]
    She also writes about other things--environmentalism, climate change, etc.

    I particularly don't like that she has apparently falsified or misrepresented some of the incidents she has written about and passed off as "nonfiction." But she is a serious writer attempting to write about serious issues, not the kind of attention seeker your first comments about her tried to suggest. And more to the point, she is in no way guilty of what OR is accusing her of on this thread.

    Frankly, I don't care what you think of her. But I do care when people post outright lies in an attempt to trivialize the impact of sexism, in a transparently circle-the-wagons-and-attack-anyone-who-dares-criticize-what-us-men-do kind of way, as OR has done on this thread. Even for him, this is sinking pretty low.

    Tom
    Last edited by WI-Tom; 11-18-2022 at 01:01 PM.
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  4. #74
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    Default Re: Men are pigs, especially boat builders

    Quote Originally Posted by WI-Tom View Post


    Frankly, I don't care what you think of her. But I do care when people post outright lies in an attempt to trivialize the impact of sexism, in a transparently circle-the-wagons-and-attack-anyone-who-dares-criticize-what-us-men-do kind of way, as OR has done on this thread.

    Tom
    They call it "fragile masculinity" for a reason.
    Steve

    If you would have a good boat, be a good guy when you build her - honest, careful, patient, strong.
    H.A. Calahan

  5. #75
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    Default Re: Men are pigs, especially boat builders

    Quote Originally Posted by WI-Tom View Post

    Did any of the links OR posted say "Men are pigs" or did OR make that up?

    Why is OR making sh!t up? And why are some posters on this thread falling for his BS?

    Tom
    One thing is very clear Tom, you simply don't understand "tongue in cheek," (and neither do a few others on this forum). You try to be so serious, all the while missing the point in a most juvenile way.


    41moGCAssqL._SX331_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg

  6. #76
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    Default Re: Men are pigs, especially boat builders

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Wright View Post
    One thing is very clear Tom, you simply don't understand "tongue in cheek," (and neither do a few others on this forum). You try to be so serious, all the while missing the point in a most juvenile way.


    41moGCAssqL._SX331_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg
    Hmm...

    I see. You're now falling back on the "But it's all just a joke! Where's your sense of humor?!?! Why can't you see that sexist comments and attitudes are all just good fun?!?! Boys will be boys!" defense. I don't find that credible, even from 7th graders.

    So, any criticism levelled at sexist behavior is "too serious" because "the boys just want to have fun." Sexism is funny. Got it. Since this has all been "too serious" for your fragile masculinity, here's a few emoticons to lighten things up so you don't feel so threatened.



    Tom
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  7. #77
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    Default Re: Men are pigs, especially boat builders

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Wright View Post
    One thing is very clear Tom, you simply don't understand "tongue in cheek,"
    Bull pucky . . . how do you know it is/was tongue in cheek ?? On the contrary, the OP was totally in character for OR.

    Thanks to Tom for calling him and you out.

  8. #78
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    Default Re: Men are pigs, especially boat builders

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Wright View Post
    Wi-Tom, come back after you've read a few critiques of Solnit's work by female authors. I happily note that one of them used my very words: "wallowing in victimhood."
    Does that mean, that the rightwing reps can not be racist, because they put someone like Herschel Walker to stand for Senator?
    GruŖ, GŁnter

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    Default Re: Men are pigs, especially boat builders

    Quote Originally Posted by Osborne Russell View Post
    OK, so in the male-dominated boatbuilding world, if a female enrolls at the school, is it patriarchal to ask her if she knows how to sharpen a plane blade?
    Wouldn't asking/claiming that your method of sharpening a plane iron was best, constitute a troll?
    To keep it wooden boat, they used to say "different ships, different long splices."

  10. #80
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    Default Re: Men are pigs, especially boat builders

    Quote Originally Posted by sandtown View Post
    Bull pucky . . . how do you know it is/was tongue in cheek ?? On the contrary, the OP was totally in character for OR.
    You're wrong, it was tongue in cheek. How do I know? Wisdom and experience.

  11. #81
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    Default Re: Men are pigs, especially boat builders

    Quote Originally Posted by heimfried View Post
    Does that mean, that the rightwing reps can not be racist, because they put someone like Herschel Walker to stand for Senator?
    See my comments on the Herschel thread.

  12. #82
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    Default Re: Men are pigs, especially boat builders

    I agree that this woman had a right to feel "rankled" by this (un)gentlemanly behavior.

    In the past whenever I saw a woman (or a man) standing by their flat tire looking frustrated/confused with jack and wrench on the ground or in hand, I'd pull over and ask if they needed/wanted any help.

    IF they wanted help but doubted they had the strength or knowledge, I would then tell them, " Well, I COULD do this for you, BUT I'd much rather talk you through doing it yourself (with help if needed) so that YOU can do this forever afterwards. It's pretty easy, no rocket science, etc. I insisted that they give it a go before I would do anymore and EVERY one of them took me up on this.

    It was always accepted with good grace and gratitude because I didn't talk down to them, grab a tool without asking if they minded, etc. etc.
    They were always ecstatic about knowing that they never had to fear a flat tire again.

    I was a school teacher and knew the power of positive reinforcement rather than negative and how to approach people with tact and empathy.
    I agree on the surface that the gentleman in the article (if accurate) had neither.

    I offered the same for my wife who didn't drive until her 30's because she biked everywhere in the city. It was well received because it was well delivered/offered.
    (Not always the case forever after ;-)

    It's too bad that so much of this well meaning approach and delivery is still met with the cry of "mansplaining" although I agree that the article seemed to show exactly that attitude. Man 'splaining (or woman 'splaining) is not in the act itself but its' delivery.

    Not rocket science.
    Last edited by Dinghy Pipedreams; 11-18-2022 at 03:46 PM.

  13. #83
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    Default Re: Men are pigs, especially boat builders

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Wright View Post
    You're wrong, it was tongue in cheek. How do I know? Wisdom and experience.
    Have you been taking lessons in deportment from OR ??

  14. #84
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    Default Re: Men are pigs, especially boat builders

    Quote Originally Posted by sandtown View Post
    Have you been taking lessons in deportment from OR ??
    Nope, but I have been noticing your posts.

  15. #85
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    Default Re: Men are pigs, especially boat builders

    this has got to be the dumbest thread of the year
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

  16. #86
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    Default Re: Men are pigs, especially boat builders

    Quote Originally Posted by sandtown View Post
    I open doors for people all the time in the US, for both men and women,
    and never once had that experience. Rather, I get tons of smiles and thanks.

    Maybe things are different in Aotearoa, but I doubt it.

    Or are you just trying to make empowered women look bad ??
    No, the truth is that I consider myself a pretty good judge of people.
    When I see a lady that looks like she would appreciate it, I do hold the door open for her.
    These are usually older ladies, ladies with their arms full or mothers with kids etc.
    The "lady" I referred to was that type of lady you see often these days, unfortunately.
    Youngish with a particular set and look about them that says "I'm special, entitled and empowered so get out of my way".
    I once thought I was wrong, but I was wrong, I wasn't wrong.

  17. #87
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    Default Re: Men are pigs, especially boat builders

    The first boatbuilder is a member of my yacht club and works at a yard where my boat is laid up and the second boatbuilder works at a builder that is half a mile away.
    IMAGINES VEL NON FUERINT

  18. #88
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    Default Re: Men are pigs, especially boat builders

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Craig-Bennett View Post
    The first boatbuilder is a member of my yacht club and works at a yard where my boat is laid up and the second boatbuilder works at a builder that is half a mile away.
    I enjoyed the article. I thought it was a pity OR posted it just for trolling purposes, pretending that it was something other than what it is: a celebration of women who are involved in professional boat building.

    Tom
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  19. #89
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    Default Re: Men are pigs, especially boat builders

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    this has got to be the dumbest thread of the year
    Thank you for your contribution.
    There is nothing quite as permanent as a good temporary repair.

  20. #90
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    Default Re: Men are pigs, especially boat builders

    No, men are NOT pigs! I am an “older lady” (75) except that I am no lady. Be that as it may, I could write a book on sexism in the sailing world, but it would be a history book. Things are so different now.

    Three cameos:

    My beloved boat (centre of my life for nearly 50 years) has a heavy cockpit grating that must be removed to get into the engine compartment. I wrestle with it, watched by the local engineer. He would so it for me in an instant, but he knows I will ask if I want help. I know he knows and he knows I know he knows. He’s a good engineer, a good man and a good friend.

    My ancient manual anchor windlass fails as I drop the hook near a raft of boats on a group jolly I plan annually for a local sailing/outdoor activities outfit with which I have volunteered for many years. Every male eye in the raft is upon me as I dismantle and fix the windlass. They are all itching to help. But nobody says a word. Everyone is pleased (and maybe a little surprised) when I manage to fix it, but there’s no “oh, didn’t she do well!” etc. We just carry on as normal. But if I had asked for help, they would have been there is a flash. All those men are good friends.

    I need to shift my clinker dinghy. A new neighbour takes over and shifts it for me. Knowing I want to prepare it for painting he fusses about getting it “on a bench” - necessary, he asserts, because someone of my “age and build” would be better off that way. I’m not too keen on being taken over, but everything he does is out of kindness. There isn’t so much of that in the world that we can afford to stamp it out. I cannot abide women who do. He is becoming a good friend.

    Of course I am a lifelong feminist (small F – academic Feminism has passed me by) I expect equality but respect difference. As the daughter of a man (b. 1916) devoid of sexism and married for 40 years to another such man, I respect the fact that men have had to adapt rapidly to changing mores. I see sexism, but never as a reason to get hot under the collar. Sometimes it can be obnoxious, so I just steer clear. After my husband’s funeral, nine men, separately and spontaneously, invited me to let them know if I needed any help with the boat, which I have occasionally done. Beloved male friends who treat me with respect and kindness. Pigs? Absolutely not!!
    "Mozart is the heart's touchstone" (Edwin Fischer)

  21. #91
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    Default Re: Men are pigs, especially boat builders

    Two weeks ago I was in the rural supply store here where I buy all my feed. The young manager was on the phone taking down a big chemical order for one of the big farms in the area. His offsider- also his girlfriend- was serving customers. She's about five two, early twenties. Little Irish girl. Late model Landcruiser pulls up with two men in it, late forties I'm guessing. One came in and gave the girl his order, which was at least a dozen bags of various grain and horse feed, paid for it and then went back to the truck and sat chatting with his friend while watching this little girl carry out the bags one at a time on her shoulder. There was a crate on the back of the cruiser and she had to lift each bag to head height and then push it through between the slats on the stock crate. I asked her what was in the order and loaded most of the bags for her- and I'm probably nearly twenty years older than either of the fellers in the truck. I stood at the drivers window with the second last bag on my shoulder and mouthed the word arsehole at him through the glass- so he got out and picked up the last bag. Next day the manager wanted to reward me for helping. I refused. People should be punished for doing the wrong thing, but it doesn't follow that they should be rewarded for doing the right thing. Over the years I've probably loaded two hundred bags of stuff into vehicles for women at that store. None of them ever accused me of being sexist. JayInOz

  22. #92
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    Default Re: Men are pigs, especially boat builders

    Quote Originally Posted by downthecreek View Post
    I see sexism, but never as a reason to get hot under the collar. Sometimes it can be obnoxious, so I just steer clear. After my husbandís funeral, nine men, separately and spontaneously, invited me to let them know if I needed any help with the boat, which I have occasionally done. Beloved male friends who treat me with respect and kindness. Pigs? Absolutely not!!
    that's the way I see it.


    ..."Over the years I've probably loaded two hundred bags of stuff into vehicles for women at that store. None of them ever accused me of being sexist". JayInOz

    Thanks Jay.

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