Russian missiles hit Poland

[Ted Hoppe]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...russia-for-war

— Poland, a NATO member, was hit by two Russian missiles that crossed into the country and killed two people,


Does article 5 become operational now?

[webishop14]

Sounds like it needs to be activated. We'll need to hear the Polish position on the matter.

[WszystekPoTrochu]

russian missiles maybe hit Poland. The other version is that the grain drying facility did what places full of suspended flammable dust sometimes do. Then there's the version that it was a missile, but not russian - given the missile range and where the aggressor can operate from. Unless it was a drone? Who knows, the ground's still smoking.

[TomF]

Pentagon spokesman just did a previously scheduled briefing, and his only response to this issue was that they were investigating alongside allies etc., and could not as yet confirm what happened. Would delay making a response - even a hypothetical - until more was confirmed.

[Canoez]

Probably going to be a moderate response - increase in supplied equipment to Ukraine, demands for an apology and reparations to the families of the dead by the Russians.

[LeeG]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...russia-for-war

— Poland, a NATO member, was hit by two Russian missiles that crossed into the country and killed two people,


Does article 5 become operational now?

are you itching for a wider war?

[sandtown]

are you itching for a wider war?

It sure reads that way . . .

[Durnik]

or, NATO should have been disbanded by St Reagan (hack, pTuee!) when the old Soviet Union fell. That it wasn't shows it was never about defense, but about the offense present day Russia feared & received. Before The MIC/Clinton/Biden pushed conflict, Europe - including Russia - were cooperating economically.. that - cooperation - is the way to peace.

Now?

Right.

Disband NATO. Find a way to peace. Germany et al were doing it. We stopped it. Why? Who benefits.

yes, yes, I know - it's all Putin's fault (mommy, mommy, it all started when he hit me back!)

Who else remembers that the Cuban Missile Crisis was (also) instigated by the U.S. FIRST stationing a missile base in Turkey pointing at the old Soviet Union? Jeeze, how freaking short are your memories! Poking the bear was never a good idea! Trading, however..

oh, that's right.. Christian Nation.. never mind, Xtians never met a war they didn't like.

[Decourcy]

Well, I can see article 5 allowing Nato equipment to be stockpiled in Poland, freeing up what Poland had left of soviet era equipment for transport to Ukrainians. I see that as a good outcome. I certainly don’t see Nato rolling across a border. Not unless the Russians continue to aim badly.

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

I think Ukraine gets more stuff.

[Ted Hoppe]

are you itching for a wider war?

absolutely not.

I do have plans to cook thanksgiving dinner for active duty sailors in Norfolk next week who serve with my son. They could be called to action if something more happens. He just got back 6 weeks ago from 10 months in the Mediterranean where they flew 10000 sorties in a Russian air suppression campaign and doing joint nato operations.

[CWSmith]

Disband NATO. Find a way to peace. Germany et al were doing it. We stopped it. Why? Who benefits.

And while we are at it, we should apologize to Putin for making his invasion of Ukraine so expensive.

No, NATO is as necessary now as ever. Russian aggression has not changed.

[WszystekPoTrochu]

A plausible missed target would be Chervonohrad less than 15 miles away, where there's supposed to be a Ukrainian military base. At least that's what credible(ish?) news hint at, I couldn't find a trace of said base on map.

[WszystekPoTrochu]

Or maybe they wanted to attack Americans?

[LeeG]

This is part of a general attack on Ukraine’s power grid right before winter.

https://apnews.com/article/russia-uk...1ee71b52ff9d52

KYIV, Ukraine (AP) — Russia pounded Ukraine’s energy facilities Tuesday with its biggest barrage of missiles yet, striking targets across the country and causing widespread blackouts. A senior U.S. intelligence official said missiles crossed into NATO member Poland, where two people were killed.

A second person confirmed to The Associated Press that apparent Russian missiles struck a site in Poland about 15 miles from the Ukrainian border.
.
.
Neighboring Moldova was also affected. It reported massive power outages after the strikes knocked out a key power line that supplies the small nation, an official said.

The missile strikes plunged much of Ukraine into darkness and drew defiance from President Volodymr Zelenskyy, who shook his fist and declared: “We will survive everything.”

Zelenskyy said Russia fired at least 85 missiles, most of them aimed at the country’s power facilities, and blacked out many cities.

His energy minister said the attack was “the most massive” bombardment of power facilities in the nearly 9-month-old Russian invasion, striking both power generation and transmission systems.

[WszystekPoTrochu]

This is part of a general attack on Ukraine’s power grid right before winter.

https://apnews.com/article/russia-uk...1ee71b52ff9d52

In this context, it might even be more than a half random stray. There's a power line connecting Poland and Ukraine a stone toss away:

mapa.jpg


That's all speculation, of course.
Officially, the emergency meeting has closed and our PM confirmed 'an explosion' without disclosing any suspected causes nor actors.
They did announce "analyzing possible conditions allowing to" execute NATO Article 4. As I write this, Biden is having a phone call with Duda.
Interesting times, interesting times.

[ERGR]

I'm sure there are radar traces from several sources that will reveal the origin of the missiles.
Until the appropriate authorities have studied the proof and made a statement, I'm content that Russia has denied attacking any targets close to the Polish border, which means that they did it. My guess is that the explanation is Russian incompetence.
/Erik

[mikefrommontana]

Grain dryers are big hot objects for missiles probably programmed to go after big IR signatures on final approach.

Fog of war is thick.

Michael Seitz
Missoula MT

[Tom from Rubicon]

This time of year grain dust explosions while not a common as in yester year area real thing. Then again, parts of Rusky rockets on site?

[David G]

Latest I've seen has it still an open question what happened.

Some folks are quick to leap at first impressions. Some have agendas. Some are just twitchy... and not prone to careful consideration.

[sandtown]

This is turning into a major disappointment for the war mongrels . .

just itching for a wider war . . (Guardian)

". . Joe Biden has said the missile that landed in Poland, killing two people, was unlikely to have been fired from Russia due to its trajectory."

This reminds me just so much of the war fever of 2002-03

Shame on you people

[Hallam]

I have heard that the misfile might’ve been a Ukraine missile intended to intercept a a Russian missile by the trajectory. Further investigation needed before any conclusion drawn

[WszystekPoTrochu]

Unofficial debris image next to comparable S300 and Kh55/555/110 systems:

FhoV-HQXwAEfbWl.jpg

Grain dryers are big hot objects for missiles probably programmed to go after big IR signatures on final approach.

Good point. However, what got hit though was a weight. Not the tractor, not a load of grain, but the relatively cool piece of wood and steel placed in a small ditch.

I have heard that the missile might’ve been a Ukraine missile intended to intercept a a Russian missile by the trajectory.

That very is probable but not officially confirmed yet. Missile(s) hitting the ditch would explain why the hole left behind is a tad too big for what S-300 carries, but let's wait for official info. None so far.

[gypsie]

I have heard that the misfile might’ve been a Ukraine missile intended to intercept a a Russian missile by the trajectory. Further investigation needed before any conclusion drawn

Biden agrees, it seems.

[WszystekPoTrochu]

PL also tells that a S300 that failed its defensive mission is the most probable scenario. Curious to see how Ukraine will handle this.

[Andrew2]

PL also tells that a S300 that failed its defensive mission is the most probable scenario. Curious to see how Ukraine will handle this.

If they came clean and publicly apologised, it would be better PR.

[Rich Jones]

Even if it was a Ukrainian missile, the Polish deaths are still on Russian hands.
If Russia hadn't attacked Ukraine, Ukraine wouldn't have to had to fire a defensive missile.
Tragedies of war.

[WszystekPoTrochu]

If they came clean and publicly apologised, it would be better PR.

For the time being they claim to have some proof of not being the one who launched the missile. I find that moderately believable, but time will tell.

[Vernon]

This is turning into a major disappointment for the war mongrels . .

just itching for a wider war . . (Guardian)

". . Joe Biden has said the missile that landed in Poland, killing two people, was unlikely to have been fired from Russia due to its trajectory."

This reminds me just so much of the war fever of 2002-03

Shame on you people

I haven't really followed except in the Bilge, but good news I think. Flipped on Bill Hemmer and Martha McCallum for a few minutes and this was the story. They had the clip of Biden saying it may have been a defensive missile. Whatever it is, at least they are not beating the drums of war, so that can't be bad.

[Decourcy]

This is turning into a major disappointment for the war mongrels . .

just itching for a wider war . . (Guardian)

". . Joe Biden has said the missile that landed in Poland, killing two people, was unlikely to have been fired from Russia due to its trajectory."

This reminds me just so much of the war fever of 2002-03

Shame on you people

No-body wants a wider war. Everyone wants Russia to stop its aggression. Shame on you for your accusations

[Canoez]

No-body wants a wider war. Everyone wants Russia to stop its aggression. Shame on you for your accusations

Yep.

As I mentioned in another thread, I think this incident will result in more defensive weapons for Ukraine to deal with the threats of Russian missiles, drones, and the like. Better air defense for Ukraine means fewer incidents such as this one.

[WszystekPoTrochu]

Here's some wild speculation:


spekulacja.jpg

[Gerarddm]

I have no idea why any of you bother with Mr. Bot ( sandtown ) as his contributions here have no value.

So it was a Ukrainian misslle, made in Russia. There you have it.

[Vernon]

I have no idea why any of you bother with Mr. Bot ( sandtown ) as his contributions here have no value.

So it was a Ukrainian misslle, made in Russia. There you have it.

Bot? it'd have to be a very sophisticated bot. On balance, my own opinion would be that the US has to do about what it is doing, arguments for more or less notwithstanding.

For me though, there is always room for anti-war sentiment - wherever it comes from, and I do think the US could have been more productive RE Russian over the years. We have to acknowledge what could have been done differently.

Sure, there's some trigger words above, but that's not too uncommon here on the forum.

Vern

[sandtown]

I have no idea why any of you bother with Mr. Bot ( sandtown ) as his contributions here have no value..

Not even as a voice of reason ?? Not to mention truth teller ??