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Thread: EVís are becoming mainstream

  1. #141
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    Default Re: EVís are becoming mainstream

    The issue with mass transit and related transportation issues is that generally they add to existing systems, rarely if ever do they displace them.

  2. #142
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    Default Re: EVís are becoming mainstream

    Quote Originally Posted by David G View Post
    We are exploring a rooftop solar array at our place. Early feedback is that it won't be enough to power an EV. I was curious if a plug-in hybrid was gonna be an option. Maybe if we pull of our plan to develop a family compound, the acreage would allow us to have a freestanding array, or the several outbuildings envisioned will have enough rooftop space...
    basically, anyone with experience will tell you, don't put it on your roof.

    i kind of like this idea, as seen on fb marketplace. a moveable array on a trailer. take it with you when you move.

    drag it around, reorient seasonally, etc.

    336915AD-85BB-43E4-A8B3-D00699734BE4.jpg

    like they say with old trailer boats, "heck, the trailer is worth more than that..." even when it's not...

  3. #143
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    Default Re: EVís are becoming mainstream

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan McCosh View Post
    The issue with mass transit and related transportation issues is that generally they add to existing systems, rarely if ever do they displace them.
    Most bureaucrats and nearly all politicians are not visionaries. Many are lawyers who are risk adverse. When given a choice they will defer or cluge on to existing systems that can not be upgraded in a timely manner.

    California is struggling with this state wide high speed rail line even with dominate democratic state governments for decades supporting the build and a trillion dollars worth of funding.
    Yet they look like clowns.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/09/u...-politics.html

    web-CA-HSR-MAP-2-335.jpg
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  4. #144
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    Default Re: EVís are becoming mainstream

    Quote Originally Posted by L.W. Baxter View Post
    basically, anyone with experience will tell you, don't put it on your roof.
    On a basic 50 X 100 urban lot, where every square foot is at a premium and spoken for several times over... the roof is the only feasible option. So lots of folks go that route. But yes, in order to achieve our target, it may need to wait for a time when we have acreage. But we haven't talked to all the potential suppliers yet. Maybe someone will have a bright idea...
    David G
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  5. #145
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    Default Re: EVís are becoming mainstream

    When I lived back east I used mass transportation all the time. When I lived in Hoboken, then Jersey City, then NYC I didn't even own a car. I rode my bicycle, skateboard, subway or just walking. It was great I had one key, just my apartment key.

    When I first moved up to Cold Spring in the Hudson Valley, I took The Hudson River Line train to Grand Central five days a week to work. Our first place was in the village and I could walk to the train so we didn't need a car. Eventually when we moved up to a bigger house outside of the village we got a car and I got a cheep station car to drive the 6 miles down to the train station.

    NOW, that I live in SoCal there is almost no public transit, aside from the trolly's that run the beach cities, or the Shorline Train that runs from LA to San Diego but it no where near where I live. So we have high MPG Vespa's and a Tesla to offset fuel and be more efficient. Ah but we also have 4 huge diesel Sprinter vans, and gas burning highly inefficient 22 MPG ford transit connect.

    When were in Italy we primarily used the amazing high speed bullet train or ebikes. The only time we rented a car was to go to the beach and Siena Only because there was no trains that when to those place.

    I would love it if there were more mass transit, I'm a big fan of train travel.
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  6. #146
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    Default Re: EVís are becoming mainstream

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Hoppe View Post
    But I still think electrified light rail is the way to go forward. it could be automated but there are serious safety issues that are rising every day which go beyond the actual operation and function.

    If we made the commitment to use more rail and ran lighter rail and street cars off the spurs imagine how the carbon footprint would be reduced and better for the environment; it would be meeting our climate goals in a decade.
    There is a lot of data available about the cost and benefits of light rail.

    It is not hard to find claims indicating that light rail riding takes twice the time as driving a private car in many places. It is not hard to find claims that operating coast per passenger mile is higher than driving a private car.

    It could be that providing private cars to the poor and providing free charging is a more cost effective and a more climate friendly solution.
    Life is complex.

  7. #147
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    Default Re: EVís are becoming mainstream

    Let's be real...Americans, more than any other country, are addicted to cars. The reasons are many.

  8. #148
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    Default Re: EVís are becoming mainstream

    Quote Originally Posted by sonofswen View Post
    Let's be real...Americans, more than any other country, are addicted to cars. The reasons are many.
    Very true.

    And... everything we can do to minimize the impact of that addiction on the rest of the world, and our grandkids would be a step in the right direction. I particularly think mass transit is drastically under-utilized.
    David G
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    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  9. #149
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    Default Re: EVís are becoming mainstream

    Some issues with rooftop PVó Given your latitude (about 43įN?) the roof must have a southfacing slope and an angle of at least 45į, or the array will be worthless in winter.

    Here's our home setup, 4.4 kW, angled for winter, to catch the low sun and also shed snow.



    An aspect of pole-mounted arrays is that the shadow they cast on a house can actually reduce the solar input through sun-facing windows. Maybe good in summer, but bad in winter.

    I just replaced the grid-tied PV system on our rental house, started up in 2004, with new panels from Enphase, which have built-in mini-inverters that supply AC power, about 2 kW.



    The angle is easily adjusted with a handcrank. Not much else in terms of maintenance.

  10. #150
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    Default Re: EVís are becoming mainstream

    Quote Originally Posted by David G View Post
    Very true.

    And... everything we can do to minimize the impact of that addiction on the rest of the world, and our grandkids would be a step in the right direction. I particularly think mass transit is drastically under-utilized.
    Yes, so true.
    I know a lot of, er some millennials who seen to be veering away from cars, but that may just be the economics of buying and maintaining one. The question is how to get people out of their cars and start using public transportation. All, or most of the old people like me talk the talk but don't walk the walk on getting out of cars. So when all the boomers are gone?? Random thoughts..O and then there are the Auto Manufacturers...Most are getting into producing EV's..and we are back where we started...( think I will go for a drive and think about it

  11. #151
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    Default Re: EVís are becoming mainstream

    Whoa we just rode up to Silverado. Man it’s super windy up in the canyon, scary Santa Anna windy

    16D8ED71-1EF8-4F06-9D8A-9CCDCACD323F.jpg
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  12. #152
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    Default Re: EVís are becoming mainstream

    Quote Originally Posted by sonofswen View Post
    Let's be real...Americans, more than any other country, are addicted to cars. The reasons are many.
    Quote Originally Posted by sonofswen View Post
    The question is how to get people out of their cars and start using public transportation. All, or most of the old people like me talk the talk but don't walk the walk on getting out of cars.
    Let's pretend.

    How much time and money would you personally be willing to spend each day to use public transportation rather than a personal car? Keeping in mind that you need a car for when public transportation does not meet your needs.

    There are certainly a good number of poor people who us public transportation at a large time and monetary cost.
    Life is complex.

  13. #153
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    Default Re: EVís are becoming mainstream

    When we lived in Auckland, New Zealand, we didn't have a car.

    The bus system was grand: ran on time, with timely stops at shopping spots and late-night meccas.

    Lots of bikes on the streets and pedestrians likewise.

    I did our regular shopping with a backpack, and there were quite a few neighbourhood shops (fish, butchery, veg, wine, deli) within a few blocks, where my wife popped in walking back from the Uni.

    On rare occasions, I called a cab (before uber and lyft). For excursions, we hired a car.

    In all, it was less expensive than keeping an auto, and free of the daily stress of city driving and finding spots to park.

  14. #154
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    Default Re: EVís are becoming mainstream

    #142, #149:

    When we bought our home in ABQ it came with 21 solar panels, for which the previous owner paid $20K for back in 2017... Our monthly bill is the admin fee, between $4 and $5. Like most homes here, we have a flat roof. Our home orients SE, and the panels are somewhat flatter than our latitude basically within 20 degrees to either side of solar south, you won't lose much in production.
    Gerard>
    Albuquerque, NM

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  15. #155
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    Default Re: EVís are becoming mainstream

    Flat or low angle arrays are fine for the southern tier of states and points south. Naturally, as you go north the normal roof pitch increases, which can work out if it's oriented south.

    For non-adjustable arrays, the correct angle for year-round efficiency is roughly equal to the degrees of latitude.

    The first solar box cooker design I saw had a flat top, for places near the equator. This one, with a top angled for 3-season use, won a recycling contest.




    First prize was $25!

  16. #156
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    Default Re: EVís are becoming mainstream


  17. #157
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    Default Re: EVís are becoming mainstream

    Tesla EVs, Even Mildly Damaged, Are Being Written Off by Insurance Companies



    • There were 120 Tesla Model Y electric vehicles listed in two large salvage auction houses recently, and the "vast majority" had under 10,000 miles on them, according to a report from the Reuters news service.



    • The insurance companies that covered these vehicles decided that even with so few miles on them, these Teslas aren't worth the $50,000 or so they sometimes cost to repair.
    • The cost to fix a car has gone up as the ease has decreased over the years, which has prompted a discussion over so-called Right to Repair laws, which would give owners more rights to fix the things they buy.


    https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a4...ZXUOSpq6J7nEb8
    David G
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    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  18. #158
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    Default Re: EVís are becoming mainstream

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan McCosh View Post
    Dunno why you think California ever banned "leaded gas cars". That has never happened, let alone in California. As for buying used cars, Cuba is still using cars made in the 1950s. With 250 million or so cars on the road today, lots of used cars will be around for maybe 50 years. I doubt the automakers will ever ban the sale of ICE cars, if only because no auto company can ban the sale of anything.
    In 1992, California under CARB became the first state to fully ban the sale and use of leaded gasoline. Those are just a few of the steps CARB has taken to maintain California's place as the United States leader in clean air standards.
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  19. #159
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    Default Re: EVís are becoming mainstream

    GM announces it's sinking hundreds of millions to build a new small-block V8...

    https://www.rpsmedia.com/gm-making-a...CSSiYsRIkGTsMs
    David G
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    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  20. #160
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    Default Re: EVís are becoming mainstream

    Quote Originally Posted by David G View Post
    GM announces it's sinking hundreds of millions to build a new small-block V8...

    https://www.rpsmedia.com/gm-making-a...CSSiYsRIkGTsMs
    I think I’m going to start a buggy whip company
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  21. #161
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    Default Re: EVís are becoming mainstream

    Quote Originally Posted by sonofswen View Post
    Let's be real...Americans, more than any other country, are addicted to cars. The reasons are many.
    No .
    The US is sixth on the list (vehicles per capita). Lil ol' NZ is a very close seventh. Public transport here sucks, urban light rail is an endlessly debated political football, forever deferred to a later decade.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List...les_per_capita

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  22. #162
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    Default Re: EVís are becoming mainstream

    Quote Originally Posted by epoxyboy View Post
    No .
    The US is sixth on the list (vehicles per capita). Lil ol' NZ is a very close seventh. Public transport here sucks, urban light rail is an endlessly debated political football, forever deferred to a later decade.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List...les_per_capita

    Pete
    Interesting list - thank you.
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  23. #163
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    Default Re: EVís are becoming mainstream

    Quote Originally Posted by David G View Post
    GM announces it's sinking hundreds of millions to build a new small-block V8...

    https://www.rpsmedia.com/gm-making-a...CSSiYsRIkGTsMs
    Of course, there is still enough dead dinosaur around to make billions off of selling IC engines. So, why not?

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  24. #164
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    Default Re: EVís are becoming mainstream

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan McCosh View Post
    The issue with mass transit and related transportation issues is that generally they add to existing systems, rarely if ever do they displace them.
    In a country where fuel supply was constantly expanding and govít policies encourage personal auto use thereís no immediate benefit to displacing that system. And when that supply starts contracting there wonít be adequate revenue to build something else. Short term reward rules. In twenty years middle class Americans will be enjoying bus transit more going 65 mph between cities while folks in China will be whisked around at twice that speed on rail.

    Rail has all kinds of attractive aspects but honestly we will adjust with busses. They can utilize existing infrastructure and change pickup and drop off spots as needed. The capital investment isnít that big.
    Last edited by LeeG; 02-05-2023 at 10:03 AM.

  25. #165
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    Default Re: EVís are becoming mainstream

    Quote Originally Posted by LeeG View Post
    In a country where fuel supply was constantly expanding and gov’t policies encourage personal auto use there’s no immediate benefit to displacing that system. And when that supply starts contracting there won’t be adequate revenue to build something else. Short term reward rules. In twenty years middle class Americans will be enjoying bus transit more going 65 mph between cities while folks in China will be whisked around at twice that speed on rail.
    I can imagine a return to bus service where electric buses whisk people from city point to city point at 80. Also airliner jet fuel efficiently improvements are making gains allowing for air travel to be still the preferred methods of getting around.
    I am finding my electric car with a 100 mile range works for daily use. I am saving nearly 200 a month in gas.

    9A20F522-63B7-4CC3-A1B5-2B5A60A2B2C1.jpg

    When Fiat begins to import 30k electric cars into the United States for all the states, I really think we are going to see a sea change. I already see it coming with the introduction of Korean electric cars being brought in.
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  26. #166
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    Default Re: EVís are becoming mainstream

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Hoppe View Post
    I can imagine a return to bus service where electric buses whisk people from city point to city point at 80. Also airliner jet fuel efficiently improvements are making gains allowing for air travel to be still the preferred methods of getting around.
    I am finding my electric car with a 100 mile range works for daily use. I am saving nearly 200 a month in gas.

    9A20F522-63B7-4CC3-A1B5-2B5A60A2B2C1.jpg

    When Fiat begins to import 30k electric cars into the United States for all the states, I really think we are going to see a sea change. I already see it coming with the introduction of Korean electric cars being brought in.
    Awhile back I used to take the bus from Baltimore to Manhatten for $19-$28 each way. It was lots cheaper than regular rail and about 30 min slower. Acela cost as much as a jet. A few times I took Amtrak south to Virginia and North Carolina but half the time w delays we’d get put on busses to our destination. Except for a few corridors in the US passenger travel is going to be on rubber tires and air.

  27. #167
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    Default Re: EVís are becoming mainstream

    There are a lot of people (around here; anecdote warning!) that simply wont take a train or a bus. Even if it is more convenient, cheaper, environmentally-favorable etc.

    Their reason for refusal? Two reasons.

    One is the urban versus rural/ suburban divide. Taking trains and busses is "for city people. " We are better than that.

    Second is the uninformed belief that trains and busses are filthy and crime -ridden. Many folks seem to possess this 1970's Hollywood version of cities and the transit systems that serve them. ( But, of course, they have little or no current and practical experience to back up this misconception)

    So get the funding, pass the bills, secure the easements for laying track. We will still need to mount a massive PR campaign to dispel widespread falsehood. And, good luck with that. It is, IMO, the hardest part.

    Kevin
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  28. #168
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    Default Re: EVís are becoming mainstream

    Quote Originally Posted by Breakaway View Post
    There are a lot of people (around here; anecdote warning!) that simply wont take a train or a bus. Even if it is more convenient, cheaper, environmentally-favorable etc.

    Their reason for refusal? Two reasons.

    One is the urban versus rural/ suburban divide. Taking trains and busses is "for city people. " We are better than that.

    Second is the uninformed belief that trains and busses are filthy and crime -ridden. Many folks seem to possess this 1970's Hollywood version of cities and the transit systems that serve them. ( But, of course, they have little or no current and practical experience to back up this misconception)

    So get the funding, pass the bills, secure the easements for laying track. We will still need to mount a massive PR campaign to dispel widespread falsehood. And, good luck with that. It is, IMO, the hardest part.

    Kevin
    public transit works in some places and not in others. There’s a huge sunk cost in private vehicles and real estate that make public transit uncompetitive in many places. Where it is competitive it’ll remain. The emotional liabilities you describe are real but convenience and economics are greater factors.

    We’ll manage with what we’ve invested in which is one person between four wheels. After awhile two or three people between four wheels. And the B-21 stealth bomber of course.

  29. #169
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    Default Re: EVís are becoming mainstream

    Rail is not only a much nicer way to travel (real rail, not the Amtrak mess) but it's safer and far more fuel efficient than buses.

    First thing we have to do is to stop all the Rails to trails BS & turn that around to Trails to Rails.
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

  30. #170
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    Default Re: EVís are becoming mainstream

    Quote Originally Posted by HRDavies View Post

    A modern city is not all that bad.
    Imagine asking most here on this forum to give up their homes, workshops & garages and move into an urban area with smaller square footage which for all purposes is better for the environment and planet - the resounding response would be get stuffed. The wood stove thread is quite revealing in that regard.

    Many people talk a big ecological game - Amazon shows us exactly who we are. Capitalism abhors a void in human selfishness and personal representational status.
    Last edited by Ted Hoppe; 02-05-2023 at 11:42 AM.
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  31. #171
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    Default Re: EVís are becoming mainstream

    fart
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

  32. #172
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    Default Re: EVís are becoming mainstream

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    fart
    Relax dude. It's all a bad dream.

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  33. #173
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    Default Re: EVís are becoming mainstream

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe (SoCal) View Post
    In 1992, California under CARB became the first state to fully ban the sale and use of leaded gasoline. Those are just a few of the steps CARB has taken to maintain California's place as the United States leader in clean air standards.
    California hasn't banned the sale and use of leaded gasoline, although it is considering such a measure. Also, it is pretty much impossible to ban the sale of "leaded gas cars", whatever that is supposed to mean.

  34. #174
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    Default Re: EVís are becoming mainstream

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    fart
    can’t get more mainstream than that

  35. #175
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    Default Re: EVís are becoming mainstream

    On EV's, in Aus there are waiting lists, and limited imports. Unofficial Auctions are becoming common.

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