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Thread: B17 and P63 collided mid-air at Wings over Dallas air show

  1. #1
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    Default B17 and P63 collided mid-air at Wings over Dallas air show

    Just a couple hours ago,&nbsp; not a lot of details yet<br>
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    Default Re: B17 and P63 collided mid-air at Wings over Dallas air show

    Loss of life? Definite loss of rare aircraft. Lots to regret. At least I hope the crews went out doing what they love.
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    Default Re: B17 and P63 collided mid-air at Wings over Dallas air show

    This is the reason I never attend air shows. It’s always in the back of my mind that there is going to be something like this happen.
    This post is temporary and my disappear at the discretion of the managment

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    Default Re: B17 and P63 collided mid-air at Wings over Dallas air show

    "Currently we do not have information on the status of the flight crews as emergency responders are working the accident," Leah Block, a spokesperson for Commemorative Air Force, told ABC News.

    Block also told ABC News she believes there were five crew members on the B-17 and one aboard the P-63. The Houston-based aircraft were not giving rides to paying customers at the time, she said.

    https://www.wfaa.com/article/news/lo...b-961874c52bea

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    Default Re: B17 and P63 collided mid-air at Wings over Dallas air show

    It looks as if the bomber was in the fighter’s blind spot, which suggests, given that this was an air show, always a carefully choreographed event, that one plane or the other was not in the right place, which suggests a serious misunderstanding.
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    Default Re: B17 and P63 collided mid-air at Wings over Dallas air show

    Cut the B17 right in half just behind the wings. Very low altitude, so no one suffered for long, but Jesus, what a goddamn shame.

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    Default Re: B17 and P63 collided mid-air at Wings over Dallas air show

    Yes, rather a horrific thing for my group. We've been emailing about it already.

    Not sure yet what events set up the collision.

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    Default Re: B17 and P63 collided mid-air at Wings over Dallas air show

    Just awful, in all respects.
    Gerard>
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    Default Re: B17 and P63 collided mid-air at Wings over Dallas air show

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Hadfield View Post
    Yes, rather a horrific thing for my group. We've been emailing about it already.

    Not sure yet what events set up the collision.

    Dave, you were the first one I thought about. Glad you were not there.
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    Default Re: B17 and P63 collided mid-air at Wings over Dallas air show

    Could that be this one that I photographed at Cherokee County Georgia airport in 2015?

    B-17 Cherokee County Airport.jpg

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    Default Re: B17 and P63 collided mid-air at Wings over Dallas air show

    DAMN! Terrible loss! My sympathies to all the families!

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    Default Re: B17 and P63 collided mid-air at Wings over Dallas air show

    This one “Texas Raiders”
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    ITS CHAOS, BE KIND

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    Default Re: B17 and P63 collided mid-air at Wings over Dallas air show

    and then there were eight (b17's in flying condition)
    out of 12,731 built for the war effort
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

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    Default Re: B17 and P63 collided mid-air at Wings over Dallas air show

    Warning: This shows the collision!

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1591522478777831424
    There is nothing quite as permanent as a good temporary repair.

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    Default Re: B17 and P63 collided mid-air at Wings over Dallas air show

    I'm finding it hard to understand how that could happen.
    without freedom of speech, we wouldn't know who the idiots are.

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    Default Re: B17 and P63 collided mid-air at Wings over Dallas air show

    Quote Originally Posted by WX View Post
    I'm finding it hard to understand how that could happen.
    I will be surprised if the pilot of the P-63 was under the age of 60 or an enthusiast who didn't have the experience of flying in tight formations or heavy traffic or at low altitude with all these factors. I wouldn't be surprised if this wasn't a wealthy owner who never should have been allowed to fly in a show like this. I'll stack on the idea that these airshows are just stupid events that are more dangerous than informative and entertaining. I'm not saying that I didn't enjoy the few that I've seen, I'm just saying that it's not worth it. And, why is it that these aircraft are still flying . . .this was the last P-63 in existance? These airframes are 75+ years old? Stupidist **** ever.

    I'm with WX, I am finding it hard to understand why this was allowed to happen.

    EDIT: the B-17 was owned and operated by The Commemorative Air Force (Formally the confederate Air force). The affiliation of the p-38 is still unknown. These craft have no business in the air, they belong in museums. It seems these loose affiliations that don't generally practice together formally, and don't seem to have any other qualification to fly in an airshow is the cause of this.
    Last edited by McMike; 11-13-2022 at 07:25 AM.
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    Default Re: B17 and P63 collided mid-air at Wings over Dallas air show

    According to twitter, the B-17 was crews by 2 retired AA crew.
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    Default Re: B17 and P63 collided mid-air at Wings over Dallas air show

    Quote Originally Posted by CK 17 View Post
    According to twitter, the B-17 was crews by 2 retired AA crew.
    This clearly wasn't their fault, the poor bastards. I'm super angry at the p-38 pilot, this was so senseless.
    In the US this perverted idea of “blood and soil” over “constitutional principles” is the most radical and anti-democratic and anti-Conservative idea I have heard in my lifetime.

    ~C. Ross

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    Default Re: B17 and P63 collided mid-air at Wings over Dallas air show

    the CONFEDERATE airforce??? you gotta be ....nevermind.

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    Default Re: B17 and P63 collided mid-air at Wings over Dallas air show

    A proper investigation will follow. Till then I am loath to assign blame or say without evidence that these lovingly restored craft are not airworthy.

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    Default Re: B17 and P63 collided mid-air at Wings over Dallas air show

    wow, mcmike made it through that rant without castigating airplane enthusiast for causing global warning
    Quote Originally Posted by McMike View Post
    I will be surprised if the pilot of the P-63 was under the age of 60 or an enthusiast who didn't have the experience of flying in tight formations or heavy traffic or at low altitude with all these factors. I wouldn't be surprised if this wasn't a wealthy owner who never should have been allowed to fly in a show like this. I'll stack on the idea that these airshows are just stupid events that are more dangerous than informative and entertaining. I'm not saying that I didn't enjoy the few that I've seen, I'm just saying that it's not worth it. And, why is it that these aircraft are still flying . . .this was the last P-63 in existance? These airframes are 75+ years old? Stupidist **** ever.

    I'm with WX, I am finding it hard to understand why this was allowed to happen.

    EDIT: the B-17 was owned and operated by The Commemorative Air Force (Formally the confederate Air force). The affiliation of the p-38 is still unknown. These craft have no business in the air, they belong in museums. It seems these loose affiliations that don't generally practice together formally, and don't seem to have any other qualification to fly in an airshow is the cause of this.
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

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    Default Re: B17 and P63 collided mid-air at Wings over Dallas air show

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    wow, mcmike made it through that rant without castigating airplane enthusiast for causing global warning
    Shut up with this stupid sh17.
    In the US this perverted idea of “blood and soil” over “constitutional principles” is the most radical and anti-democratic and anti-Conservative idea I have heard in my lifetime.

    ~C. Ross

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    Default Re: B17 and P63 collided mid-air at Wings over Dallas air show

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian McColgin View Post
    A proper investigation will follow. Till then I am loath to assign blame or say without evidence that these lovingly restored craft are not airworthy.
    Dude, The p-38 was one of a few things:

    -Piloted by an incompetent pilot
    -Piloted by an unfit pilot
    -the aircraft was too damn old to be in the air
    -with the bonus condition of loose affiliations flying in close proximity without strict protocol, training, and practice.
    In the US this perverted idea of “blood and soil” over “constitutional principles” is the most radical and anti-democratic and anti-Conservative idea I have heard in my lifetime.

    ~C. Ross

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    Default Re: B17 and P63 collided mid-air at Wings over Dallas air show

    it weren't a p-38
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

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    Default Re: B17 and P63 collided mid-air at Wings over Dallas air show

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    it weren't a p-38
    Yeah yeah, I ment p-63. the 38 lightening was my favorite ww2 aircraft . . . or the b-25 . . . or maybe the b-17. Fu35 me for making a mistake.
    In the US this perverted idea of “blood and soil” over “constitutional principles” is the most radical and anti-democratic and anti-Conservative idea I have heard in my lifetime.

    ~C. Ross

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    Default Re: B17 and P63 collided mid-air at Wings over Dallas air show

    Quote Originally Posted by McMike View Post
    These craft have no business in the air, they belong in museums.
    These planes didn't fall apart spontaneously in midair. They were flight worthy. We have aging schooners and square riggers still sailing for much the same reasons.
    "Where you live in the world should not determine whether you live in the world." - Bono

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    Default Re: B17 and P63 collided mid-air at Wings over Dallas air show

    Quote Originally Posted by CWSmith View Post
    These planes didn't fall apart spontaneously in midair. They were flight worthy. We have aging schooners and square riggers still sailing for much the same reasons.
    No, these didn't, it was pure stupidity that caused this. My dismay is the loss of these irreplaceable aircraft that are too valuable to risk flying anymore, not to mention the loss of life. I think aircraft hold a magnitude greater risk on many levels to, not just the crew, but to other aircraft/crews and people on the ground. In other words, not even close to comparable.
    In the US this perverted idea of “blood and soil” over “constitutional principles” is the most radical and anti-democratic and anti-Conservative idea I have heard in my lifetime.

    ~C. Ross

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    Default Re: B17 and P63 collided mid-air at Wings over Dallas air show

    p-63 mimicking what an attacking fighter would do in combat? Pilot underestimated the turning radius of his p-63?
    The video I saw makes it look that way. Low level and the pilots' deaths were quick.
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    Default Re: B17 and P63 collided mid-air at Wings over Dallas air show

    From what I can see the the P-63 pilot lost sight of the B-17 under his nose. I have been pilot of an airplane in Plane -to- plane photo shoot and lost sight of the photo plane while in right eshelon ( I was outside and down to the right) I announced I lost sight of them (Above my left wing in a high wing)- My bailout was to slowly slide outside and down and slide away until I could recover visual. You need to have a plan and and coordination in formation flight.

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    Default Re: B17 and P63 collided mid-air at Wings over Dallas air show

    These are the rules by which pilots on this continent fly formation at airshows. It's not ad-hoc. There is Training, Standards, and Checks-Flights.

    Here is the site: Formation and Safety Team | Formation And Safety Team (flyfast.org)

    Dave

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    Default Re: B17 and P63 collided mid-air at Wings over Dallas air show

    I’ve seen enough. This was probably the most documented midair collision in my memory. Other than the details of experience levels and event planning, it’s pretty clear to me what happened. The P-63 cut inside of several other aircraft and descended into the B-17.

    I love going to air shows and getting access to to wonderful historic machines. However, when one of these mass multiple aircraft stunts get going I generally stop paying attention. I’ve seen too much death and destruction and I’m done.
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    Default Re: B17 and P63 collided mid-air at Wings over Dallas air show

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Hadfield View Post
    These are the rules by which pilots on this continent fly formation at airshows. It's not ad-hoc. There is Training, Standards, and Checks-Flights.

    Here is the site: Formation and Safety Team | Formation And Safety Team (flyfast.org)

    Dave
    With all due respect to your experience; do you think this pilot looked trained and well versed and compliant? The only thing that seems to have gone right here was that the maneuver was started as they cleared the shopping center saving those below from being shredded. And honestly, it doesn't look like that was intentional as it was a bit too close for comfort from the point of view of the videos taken from that location. Clearly, the p-63 pilot had a catastrophic failure of something, and the aircraft doesn't seem to be the culprit.
    In the US this perverted idea of “blood and soil” over “constitutional principles” is the most radical and anti-democratic and anti-Conservative idea I have heard in my lifetime.

    ~C. Ross

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    Default Re: B17 and P63 collided mid-air at Wings over Dallas air show

    A tragic accident, I wonder if there was some of equipment malfunction.

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    Default Re: B17 and P63 collided mid-air at Wings over Dallas air show

    Quote Originally Posted by McMike View Post
    With all due respect to your experience; do you think this pilot looked trained and well versed and compliant? The only thing that seems to have gone right here was that the maneuver was started as they cleared the shopping center saving those below from being shredded. And honestly, it doesn't look like that was intentional as it was a bit too close for comfort from the point of view of the videos taken from that location. Clearly, the p-63 pilot had a catastrophic failure of something, and the aircraft doesn't seem to be the culprit.
    FAA crash investigations routinely take a year or sometimes multiple years to come to a conclusion.
    Think of the time and money they would save hiring you to it it remotely by watching a snippit of video and then quickly deducing the cause.

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    Default Re: B17 and P63 collided mid-air at Wings over Dallas air show

    Quote Originally Posted by RCRVRP View Post
    FAA crash investigations routinely take a year or sometimes multiple years to come to a conclusion.
    Think of the time and money they would save hiring you to it it remotely by watching a snippit of video and then quickly deducing the cause.
    Think of it! Right! But hey, there's absolutely nothing to be said about common sense; right? I'll just cross a busy highway blindfolded and wait a few years for the State Police investigation to say that I was a complete moron. Also, I never claimed I knew the cause, just that this happens way to often at airshows. It's almost like you can predict that every few years one will produce a mass causality event. That's a problem.
    In the US this perverted idea of “blood and soil” over “constitutional principles” is the most radical and anti-democratic and anti-Conservative idea I have heard in my lifetime.

    ~C. Ross

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