Rememberance Day

[Nicholas Carey]

Or Veteran's Day . . .

My dad served in World War II with the 99th Infantry Division. They went on the line in Belgium's Forêt d'Ardennes on 9 November 1944, as a completely green, unblooded infantry division. And were promptly caught up in the Battle of the Bulge. Outnumbered 5 to 1, their successful defense of Elsenborn Ridge earned them the sobriquet "Battle Babies".

In the 6 months between their going on the line and VE-Day (181 days), the 99th saw 151 days of combat.

The week before VE-Day, they liberated the Mühldorf concentration camp complex, feeder camps for Dachau.

My dad was a poet -- this is one of his poems.

On War
© 1991 Thomas E. Carey

We call them soldiers, those we send to fight.
We cheer their going, and their coming back,
And give a special care to soldiers' graves.

No matter how long since or far away
Once having worn a soldier's coat,
Each man remembers,
And tries to tell the children.
But never tells anyone all he knows.
He can't find the words for a scream.
Yet in his silence many children hear it.

A time ago the Roman sang of arms.
We've learned too much of that trade now,
And none of us can sing that song.
But long before that old man sang, and since,
We've fought whatever strangers came along,
Or as easily, our brothers;
Or going out from our places
Would fight whomever we might find.

Some say that war's our nature,
And say such nature must be mended.
They're still out looking for the tools to mend it.
but might there be some use for such a bitter nature?
(So opposite to all our memories of love. . . . )

Suppose our lovely sea-wrapped blue green planet,
Cloudmantled Earth, starlit, stargirt,
Lies on the edge of lovelier places;
And we're on picket with our world,
Watching for something coming down from the dark,
That wants to wreck all lovely places.

May be that we keep fighting
So if we must we're able;
May be that we remember lovelier places
So we'll know why.

[bamamick]

My grandfather on my dad's side fought in WWI with the AEF. My grandfather on my mom's side lost a leg in WWII. My dad was in the navy for six years in the 1950's, and I lost an uncle in Vietnam. And me? Nothing. My dad never wanted me to join, as it was just after we had left Vietnam and things were pretty ugly.

But I was raised to respect anyone who'd served, and question anyone who sent them to do so, and I have pretty much stuck with that.

Mickey Lake

[Tom Montgomery]

And me? Nothing. My dad never wanted me to join, as it was just after we had left Vietnam and things were pretty ugly.

But I was raised to respect anyone who'd served, and question anyone who sent them to do so, and I have pretty much stuck with that.

The same with my father and me. He hated firearms ("I saw what they do"). He was an Eisenhower Republican... A MUCH different creature than those in the 21st century GQP... They are no longer our father's and grandfather's Grand Old Party.

President Dwight D. Eisenhower from the Chance for Peace address delivered before the American Society of Newspaper Editors, April 16, 1953:

Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed.

This world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children...

This is not a way of life at all, in any true sense. Under the cloud of threatening war, it is humanity hanging from a cross of iron.

[Kevin G]

I thought Remembrance Day is 9/11

KG

[Nicholas Carey]

I thought Remembrance Day is 9/11

KG

Per the language of the armistice agreement, hostilities ceased "at the 11th hour of the 11th day of the 11th month" of 1918.

Roughly 40,000,000 casualties, both military and civilian, of which maybe 22,000,000 or so were deaths.

The USA was late to the party. From 1917, when we arrived to the end of the war, we suffered suffered 52, 947 killed and 202, 628 wounded.

Hence, Remembrance Day.

[TomF]

Commonwealth tradition is 11th of November, with the civic Remembrance services focused on 11:00. The time/day of the armistice signing for the Great War.

With 2 sons of an age to serve if such a war would come again involving Canada, it's a somber day here.

None of us have served, though it was a close decision for me - had I become clergy like my dad and brother, I'd likely have signed on as a chaplain. Was most of the way there when I left the seminary, 30+ years ago.

My son each still toss the idea around - the oldr one now in med school has largely decided to do his medicine in a different way; the younger lad may still choose it, in the next couple of years.

[Osborne Russell]

My dad was a poet -- this is one of his poems.

Yeah.

May be that we keep fighting
So if we must we're able;
May be that we remember lovelier places
So we'll know why.

You have to survive to remember love
The lovelier places will vanish unless we protect them --
They will be forgotten.
Killing is necessary
May be we must, so be able.
If you manage to get by without it
Congratulations but
Don't tell yourself
Don't tell the young ones
a bunch of bull S.

You're not a pacifist -- they are heroes
You don't have what it takes
to bare your breast to the enemy, nor do I.
So shut up, gear up, fall in, and repeat after me
Killing is necessary.

[Jim Mahan]

The day was originally called Armistice Day, after WWI and is celebrated in other countries, too. It got changed in the US to Veteran's Day, in nineteen-fifty-four, by Dwight Eisenhower who said it was because the day should honor all veterans and not just those of WWI. Both things are worthwhile, it doesn't have to be one or the other, but it's now custom in the US to call it that.

[Nicholas Carey]

Yeah.



You have to survive to remember love
The lovelier places will vanish unless we protect them --
They will be forgotten.
Killing is necessary
May be we must, so be able.
If you manage to get by without it
Congratulations but
Don't tell yourself
Don't tell the young ones
a bunch of bull S.

You're not a pacifist -- they are heroes
You don't have what it takes
to bare your breast to the enemy, nor do I.
So shut up, gear up, fall in, and repeat after me
Killing is necessary.

That's the essential tension, isn't it?

War is terrible, . . . but sadly, fighting is sometimes necessary.

[Jack Loudon]

My dad was drafted into the army in 1942, sent to Britain on a Liberty Ship, and on to Europe right after D-Day. He never talked much about his experiences there, and was never interested in guns or hunting later on.

When on leave in England and Belgium, while other soldiers were likely getting drunk and chasing women, he shopped for antiques and sent them home to his new wife, my mother. They were married in Hattiesburg, Mississippi, a few days before he shipped out. He was smitten, and remained so for the rest of his life. My mom is still alive at 102 keeps his memory alive as well.

The photo below is on my dresser.

[edit] I didn't realize the second photo also attached. It's binoculars my dad retrieved from the neck of a deceased German soldier, Dienstglas 10x50's.

IMG_3355.jpg

[Jim Bow]

THE DEATH OF A BALL TURRET GUNNER
By Randall Jarrell, USAAC, WW2

From my mother's sleep I fell into the State,
And I hunched in its belly till my wet fur froze.
Six miles from earth, loosed from its dream of life,
I woke to black flak and the nightmare fighters.
When I died they washed me out of the turret with a hose.

[WI-Tom]

Dulce et Decorum Est

Wilfred Owen (1893-1918)

Bent double, like old beggars under sacks,
Knock-kneed, coughing like hags, we cursed through sludge,
Till on the haunting flares we turned our backs,
And towards our distant rest began to trudge.
Men marched asleep. Many had lost their boots,
But limped on, blood-shod. All went lame; all blind;
Drunk with fatigue; deaf even to the hoots
Of gas-shells dropping softly behind.

Gas! GAS! Quick, boys!—An ecstasy of fumbling
Fitting the clumsy helmets just in time,
But someone still was yelling out and stumbling
And flound’ring like a man in fire or lime.—
Dim through the misty panes and thick green light,
As under a green sea, I saw him drowning.

In all my dreams before my helpless sight,
He plunges at me, guttering, choking, drowning.

If in some smothering dreams, you too could pace
Behind the wagon that we flung him in,
And watch the white eyes writhing in his face,
His hanging face, like a devil’s sick of sin;
If you could hear, at every jolt, the blood
Come gargling from the froth-corrupted lungs,
Obscene as cancer, bitter as the cud
Of vile, incurable sores on innocent tongues,—
My friend, you would not tell with such high zest
To children ardent for some desperate glory,
The old Lie: Dulce et decorum est
Pro patria mori.

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

Remembrance Day in the Commonwealth is 11/11, with two minutes’ silence at 11.00 am, and there is a ceremony of remembrance on the Sunday following, held at every war memorial in the land. There are fourteen places, small villages, which don’t have a War Memorial, because everyone from that place came home, twice.*

The two minutes’ silence is repeated at the service, starting with the Exhortation:

Address:
“They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old,
Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.
At the going down of the sun, and in the morning,
We will remember them."

Response:
”We will remember them."

followed by the Last Post on a bugle.

The Kohima Epitaph** is generally read, following the Silence, now:

'When You Go Home, Tell Them Of Us And Say,
For Your Tomorrow, We Gave Our Today.'

It was not said, until recently, because it was considered to belong to the Burma Star Association, so it was not said if any member of the Burma Star Association was present.

Classical scholars will recognise the origins of the Kohima Epitaph as the Thermopylae Epitaph.

My father had the Burma Star; obviously, he came back. As there are now very few survivors of the Burma Campaign, the Kohima Epitaph is now said at Remembrance Services.

My medical student son is in his University Officer Cadet Force and intends to join the Army so his weekend is accounted for by practicing today and parade tomorrow.

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thankful_Villages

** https://www.nam.ac.uk/explore/battle-imphal

[skuthorp]

Eleven AM at the local Cenotaph, A minutes silence among about 50 other oldies, and a few children.
But it's Saturday here, the schools came yesterday and a dozen wreaths at the foot allready. Small posies and a big bunch of rosemary.

[Hallam]

Here is one I wrote a few years ago for Anzac Day here in Oz.

[Jim Mahan]

This goes here, to show the difference between the two dates in the US. From Wiki

Memorial Day is observed on the last Monday of May at national cemeteries, by placing flowers and American flags on graves of military personnel. It was formerly observed on May 30 from 1868 to 1970. Many people visit cemeteries and memorials on Memorial Day to honor and mourn those who fought and died while serving in the U.S. military.

In mind, I distinguish the two by thinking that Veteran's day includes honoring all those who served whether they 'only sat and watched,' in other words, those who served without paying the ultimate price, as did those who did. I would feel not like 'honoring' my service on the Memorial Day while Ido claim, FWIW, to be every bit the veteran, but not a combat veteran, like a lot of us who did take the risk, and do the service, even it was only baking at the dining hall in Minot, ND. Which was a motivational threat used by training instructors. Don't fck up or the Air Force will send you Minot or 'Bumfuk Egypt.' And that, somewhat unfortunately, carries a stigma for those folks who actually drove trucks or worked n the dinng hall or the mail room, honorable service if not glorious.

Both holidays do double duty for the general population as marking the calendar for other, non-related things, ie, the 'unoffical start of summer' and an excuse for a three-day weekend and traditional picnics and parades. Labor Day is both a commemoration of the Labor movement, and the 'unofficial end of summer.' Which carries with it the unspoken 'unofficial start of the pre-'holidays' shopping season,' just like our national Thanksgiving Day marks the 'official start of shopping for Christmas while maintaining, for some, a commenoration of the European beginning of colonization and take-over the northern continent from the indigenous people. I see a trend related to marketing and religion along with secular culture as a function of special calendar days and seasons.

I never heard it, and it's prolly not worth the thinking about, but I suppose the really ancient stone erections that mark the seasons, the celestial motion of the sun relative to the calendar for sprirtual religious reasons that correspond to functional seasons, like farming and hunting, maybe Stonehenge and others are both solar calendars and memorial sites for territorial battles.

[Nicholas Scheuer]

My father had a cousin who may have also been in the 99th. I know he was in a New Division from Indiana and was wounded in the Battle Of The Bulge. One of the cousin"s sisters was an Army nurse who got herself blacklisted from promotion for having been one of the hospital staff that protested Gen Patton's mistreatment of that wounded soldier. Before the war she and my father had worked together in an oil painting artists guild they organized as part of a government Depression recovery program.

Or Veteran's Day . . .

My dad served in World War II with the 99th Infantry Division. They went on the line in Belgium's Forêt d'Ardennes on 9 November 1944, as a completely green, unblooded infantry division. And were promptly caught up in the Battle of the Bulge. Outnumbered 5 to 1, their successful defense of Elsenborn Ridge earned them the sobriquet "Battle Babies".

In the 6 months between their going on the line and VE-Day (181 days), the 99th saw 151 days of combat.

The week before VE-Day, they liberated the Mühldorf concentration camp complex, feeder camps for Dachau.

My dad was a poet -- this is one of his poems.

On War
© 1991 Thomas E. Carey

We call them soldiers, those we send to fight.
We cheer their going, and their coming back,
And give a special care to soldiers' graves.

No matter how long since or far away
Once having worn a soldier's coat,
Each man remembers,
And tries to tell the children.
But never tells anyone all he knows.
He can't find the words for a scream.
Yet in his silence many children hear it.

A time ago the Roman sang of arms.
We've learned too much of that trade now,
And none of us can sing that song.
But long before that old man sang, and since,
We've fought whatever strangers came along,
Or as easily, our brothers;
Or going out from our places
Would fight whomever we might find.

Some say that war's our nature,
And say such nature must be mended.
They're still out looking for the tools to mend it.
but might there be some use for such a bitter nature?
(So opposite to all our memories of love. . . . )

Suppose our lovely sea-wrapped blue green planet,
Cloudmantled Earth, starlit, stargirt,
Lies on the edge of lovelier places;
And we're on picket with our world,
Watching for something coming down from the dark,
That wants to wreck all lovely places.

May be that we keep fighting
So if we must we're able;
May be that we remember lovelier places
So we'll know why.

[wizbang 13]

notice Europeans take this day more seriously than "muricans...in general
here, it's a day to sell crap /go out to eat/give away a piece of pie
war for the USA is a way to make some money..everyone else, a way to die.

[birlinn]

In the UK it is also known as poppy day, in remembrance of the poppies that appeared in the shell-blasted fields of WW1 Flanders.
The plastic and fabric poppies are sold in aid of the Royal British Legion, a charity helping ex-service personnel. Most people buy one and wear it.
All war memorials seem to get wreaths, after a short service..

There is also a two minute silence at 11.11 on the eleventh of November- I suppose we do take it seriously.

poppy.jpg

[birlinn]

In 2014, the moat at the Tower of London was progressively filled with 888,246 ceramic poppies, representing each of the UK service fatalities in the First World War.
Also represented a river of blood.
It was completed for the 11th, of course.

poppies-moat.jpg

[bamamick]

An incredible visual. Thank you for sharing that.

Mickey Lake

[Nicholas Carey]

In the UK it is also known as poppy day, in remembrance of the poppies that appeared in the shell-blasted fields of WW1 Flanders.
The plastic and fabric poppies are sold in aid of the Royal British Legion, a charity helping ex-service personnel. Most people buy one and wear it.
All war memorials seem to get wreaths, after a short service..

There is also a two minute silence at 11.11 on the eleventh of November- I suppose we do take it seriously.

poppy.jpg

Back in the 1970s, I remember people wearing poppies here in the 'States on November 11th. The poppies were sold by the American Legion, though the custom seems to have fallen by the wayside.

The American Legion does still seem to sell the poppies, though, but they push May 27th as "National Poppy Day".

https://www.legion.org/poppyday

https://emblem.legion.org/Poppy-Program/products/746/

A few years ago, I made fabric poppies for the family to wear, which we've been doing. It does seem that, at least here in Seattle, one has to explain its significance.

[Nicholas Carey]

In 2014, the moat at the Tower of London was progressively filled with 888,246 ceramic poppies, representing each of the UK service fatalities in the First World War.
Also represented a river of blood.
It was completed for the 11th, of course.

poppies-moat.jpg

I remember that. A powerful piece of artwork, that.

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

The ceramic poppies in the moat were all sold, at £20 each iirc, with the proceeds going to the British Legion. I remember going to see them. Effective, simple, and moving.

[L.A Marche]

The ceramic poppies in the moat were all sold, at £20 each iirc, with the proceeds going to the British Legion. I remember going to see them. Effective, simple, and moving.

We purchased one, although massed produced each one is slightly different as the final shaping was done by hand. There is a video about their production.079F34D9-1595-45DF-ACE5-CCBD64085C14.jpg

[Peerie Maa]

Researching my family tree, I uncovered these, not all of whom saw active service.

• My father, Jack Edward Miller (1926 - 2005) 22.2.1944 to 1.10.1947 Corporal RAFUR E/Asst ground radio, France & Germany drove a radio truck behind the advancing Army of Liberation.
  
• Grandfather, William Walter Miller (1893 - 1987), Able Seaman Royal Navy in World War I H M Trawler MAGNOLIA II, hired trawler, Adty No 1741
  
• Henry William Miller (1890 - 1916) Seargeant 4th Battalion Bedfordshire Reg. KIA The Battle of the Ancre on the Somme
  
• Henry John Miller (1862 - 1940) OS HMS Northampton, Royal Navy, then Royal Navy Coast Guard
  
• James Henry Miller (1837) OS Royal Navy
  
• GG Grandfather, Henry William Miller (bef. 1827 - 1920)Royal Marines Artillery, then Royal Navy Coast Guard
  
• John Edward Miller (1824) Boatswain, Royal Navy
  
• GGG Grandfather, John Miller (bef. 1799 - aft. 1860)Royal Marines Artillery
  
• Maternal Grandfather, Thomas Daniel Collins (1895 - 1968) Gunner Royal Garrison Artillery World War I
  
• Great Uncle, William John Collins (1885 - abt. 1971) Lance Bombardier Royal Garrison Artillery, 265th Service Battery in World War I
  
• Great Uncle, George Collins (1893 - 1976) Lance Corporal in Coldstream Guards 1st Battalion World War I. Surviving records mention a shrapnel wound, July 1918.
  

Those without relationships listed are various cousins removed. There are a couple more related by marriage, one in the RAF WWI who retired from RAF Mildenhall, one on HM Hospital Ship Rewa, WWI and one in the Remount Squadron WWI

[L.A Marche]

In the UK it is also known as poppy day, in remembrance of the poppies that appeared in the shell-blasted fields of WW1 Flanders.
The plastic and fabric poppies are sold in aid of the Royal British Legion, a charity helping ex-service personnel. Most people buy one and wear it.
All war memorials seem to get wreaths, after a short service..

There is also a two minute silence at 11.11 on the eleventh of November- I suppose we do take it seriously.

Your describing Remembrance Day in Canada but with better looking poppies.4E10B6AC-5A4E-4F85-BF90-56442D33DB48.jpg

[Peerie Maa]

Your describing Remembrance Day in Canada but with better looking poppies.4E10B6AC-5A4E-4F85-BF90-56442D33DB48.jpg

Our have become simpler over time.
This is what i remember from my childhood, C1958

[sonofswen]

This is the Remembrance day that comes to mind for me:

The SDS March on Washington to End the War in Vietnam, held on April 17th, 1965, turned out to be the largest peace protest up to that point in American history, drawing between 15,000 and 25,000 college students and others to the nation's capital.

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

Our have become simpler over time.
This is what i remember from my childhood, C1958

I remember those, and I remember being told that the poppies were made by disabled ex-Servicemen.

I’m sure that was true at some time. I doubt if it’s true now.

[Osborne Russell]

That's the essential tension, isn't it?

War is terrible, . . . but sadly, fighting is sometimes necessary.

It's the essential tension after one decides whether one is a pacifist. That decision has enormous implications.

It's necessary to be prepared for what you know is necessary.

[Osborne Russell]

Here is one I wrote a few years ago for Anzac Day here in Oz.

Good one.

They're saved getting old, true.

[Osborne Russell]

Here's something for all to remember, especially Trumpers writhing in the flames of hell.

Donald Trump faced mounting criticism from leaders of his own party Sunday as a confrontation between the Republican nominee and the Muslim American parents of a soldier [Humayun Khan] killed in Iraq continued to consume the presidential race.

Khizr and Ghazala Khan denounced Trump in ever more forceful terms, asserting that Trump’s temperament and lack of empathy rendered him unfit for office, while Trump claimed that Khizr Khan “viciously attacked” him while speaking at the Democratic National Convention last week.

Khizr Khan also repeated his call for House Speaker Paul D. Ryan (R-Wis.) and Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) to repudiate Trump, saying they have a moral obligation to speak out against their party’s standard-bearer.

In separate statements, Ryan and McConnell expressed support for the Khans and reiterated their opposition to Trump’s proposed ban on Muslims, but neither mentioned Trump by name and neither abandoned his support for the Republican nominee.

Sen. Lindsey O. Graham (R-S.C.), who urged Republicans to walk away from Trump after the Curiel episode, said the Republican nominee’s attack on the Khans is unprecedented.

“This is going to a place where we’ve never gone before, to push back against the families of the fallen. There used to be some things that were sacred in American politics — that you don’t do — like criticizing the parents of a fallen soldier, even if they criticize you,” Graham said. “If you’re going to be leader of the free world, you have to be able to accept criticism. Mr. Trump can’t.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...d=a_inl_manual

Gold Star father Khizr Khan said Thursday that recent reports claiming President Donald Trump called slain U.S. soldiers “losers” and “suckers” show he has the “soul of a coward” and is “not deserving to be the commander-in-chief of the armed forces of the United States."

The Atlantic reported last week that Trump made the remarks when canceling a planned visit to Aisne-Marne American Cemetery outside Paris in 2018. According to The Atlantic, Trump said: “Why should I go to that cemetery? It’s filled with losers.” The article also claims that Trump called the 1,800 U.S. Marines who died at a nearby battlefield in World War I “suckers.” . . . This is not the first time Trump has made disparaging remarks about people who have served in the military. While on the campaign trail in 2015, Trump said he did not believe Sen. John McCain was a war hero. “He's not a war hero,” Trump said at the time. “He was a war hero because he was captured. I like people who weren't captured." McCain was a prisoner of war in Vietnam for five and a half years . . . After the Khans’ speech, Trump made belittling and Islamophobic remarks about both of them to ABC’s George Stephanopoulos. “If you look at his wife, she was standing there, she had nothing to say, she probably — maybe she wasn’t allowed to have anything to say, you tell me.” Trump said.

https://www.wgbh.org/news/national-n...ul-of-a-coward

watch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5nV93to_Bw

Trump lists the many sacrifices he's made for America. Where's his Bronze Star? I guess only losers get those, and he's a winner.

[Jim Bow]

Y’all have reminded me of two old Marines I met in 2005. I was outside a Macy’s at Northgate Mall in Seattle. Waiting, as usual, for my wife. I spotted a couple of elderly gents wearing ball-caps emblazoned with “WW2 MARINE” in red. I went up to chat.
They were from Oregon, high school buddies. One was 6’4” the other about 5”6”. They joined together, planning on staying together during their service.
Uncle Sugar had different needs.
The shorter of the two was shipped off to the South Pacific and ended up in three amphibious attacks. The taller guy was sent to the American embassy in The Bahamas. He was a guard in a unit of Marines all over 6 feet tall. Something to do with impressing the Governor of the Bahamas, formerly Edward the king of England.
All requests for transfer were denied.
When I met them, they were in their 80s, and were heading up to Everett to participate in the annual Half-Ironman.

[timber_cruiser]

Or Veteran's Day . . .

My dad served in World War II with the 99th Infantry Division. They went on the line in Belgium's Forêt d'Ardennes on 9 November 1944, as a completely green, unblooded infantry division. And were promptly caught up in the Battle of the Bulge. Outnumbered 5 to 1, their successful defense of Elsenborn Ridge earned them the sobriquet "Battle Babies".

Thanks for starting this thread. I was thinking about my father over this Veteran's Day. My Dad was a Wisconsin farm boy drafted into the US Army when he was 19. He fought at the Bridge of Remagen, the first major crossing of the Rhine into Germany. He was also part of the forward advance into Buchenwald concentration camp. This was a haunting memory that he was very reluctant to share with my brother and me.