Brext Benefits - Share the joy

[Peerie Maa]

There is a taboo, Henning. Certainly not at the behest of King Charles. It is simply a matter of the utter spinelessness of our political classes when confronted by the feeble threats of the far right.

As I pointed out on another thread there was a report on the BeeB of a meeting between the Cabinet and Tory Grandees, including Hague discussing the threat to their Tory seats in parliament posed by Farage's party and what to do about it. You could almost hear the patter of nipping sphincters.
Which lead to

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

The Labour Party have shown themselves to be the same.

I particularly dislike:

Rachel Reeves
Lisa Nandy
Deborah Mattinson
Claire Ainsley.

These four appear to control Starmer.

[Henning 4148]

... I was not really serious about King Charles. Nevertheless - it might be tempting to take control if the politicians run his country into the wall.

[dutchpp]

One of our national news channels showed the situation in Burnley (UK) by the looks of it a poor town. They showed a plumber who was trying to help the poor, repairing their boilers and heating etc.
The channel reported that at least 14,5 million people are below the poverty limit, these numbers a rising fast.
I wouldn't be surprised if the UK economy seriously implodes in the next 6 months.

[P.I. Stazzer-Newt]

[John Meachen]

Sounds like there is a taboo being built in the UK around questioning Brexit. Interesting. If both of the major parties are aligned on this, then who is aligning them on this topic? King Charles?

About the referendum result - yes, another referendum would probably be needed to apply for EU membership again. And I guess it may be to early for that. Establishing trade agreements might not be the worst option in the meantime.

At the time of the last election,neither of the main parties dared to risk alienating around half the electorate,whichever way they leant.Jo Swinson didn't exactly make a wise decision either and suffered oblivion as a result.With the spectre of Corbyn removed from the scene there may be a change of regime in a year or two and it might be a vote winner if one party or other said that should there be a sufficient clamour then the situation could be reviewed.In the meantime we are in for a fairly lean few years-but I did get a black passport earlier this year.Is that a benefit?

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

... I was not really serious about King Charles. Nevertheless - it might be tempting to take control if the politicians run his country into the wall.

I have two things in common with King Charles; we went to the same University and more pertinently our mothers both spoke French like natives. I think this gives a clue as to where our King might stand on the issue if he were to permit himself the luxury of an opinion - which he will not.

[RFNK]

Have any of the royals expressed any opinions about Brexit?

[Henning 4148]

Have any of the royals expressed any opinions about Brexit?

Well, the way the Queen dressed at some occasions were interpreted as expressing a view ...

[birlinn]

Yup- that hat was not chosen randomly.

queen.jpg

[oldcodger]

And the skirt shows support for Ukraine.

[RFNK]

Is that all? Reminds me of when we had to search the Sgt Peppers album cover and play records backwards to find evidence that Paul Mc was dead!

[birlinn]

Her Maj was subtle...
And had a subtle sense of humour.

[The Q]

One of our national news channels showed the situation in Burnley (UK) by the looks of it a poor town. They showed a plumber who was trying to help the poor, repairing their boilers and heating etc.
The channel reported that at least 14,5 million people are below the poverty limit, these numbers a rising fast.
I wouldn't be surprised if the UK economy seriously implodes in the next 6 months.

Poverty is normally defined as a percentage of the average wage.. it means you can never get rid of it even with the fact we have the lowest unemployment rate for many decades. The only way to reduce the poverty level is to give everyone the almost the same income.
Almost? Yep one person would have a penny less, so they could be the poverty stricken.

As for the economy imploding , yes I'd agree, they've staved it off since Gordon Brown started quantitive easing, and every government since has continued it, the bucket is now empty and the chickens are about to start roosting..

[dutchpp]

Poverty is normally defined as a percentage of the average wage.. it means you can never get rid of it even with the fact we have the lowest unemployment rate for many decades. The only way to reduce the poverty level is to give everyone the almost the same income.
Almost? Yep one person would have a penny less, so they could be the poverty stricken.

I wasn't referring to the news item to brag or to start a definition discussion, what struck me was the fact that 14,5 million of a 63 million population were under the poverty limit, that's approximately 23% and rising.
Compared to where I live, our poverty limit is slightly different but it is certainly comparable to yours, which is 1 million on a population of 17,8 million that's approximately 5,6%.
That's a disturbing difference, although we have more or less the same problems like the Ukraine war, a high inflation and a slowly stagnating economy. But maybe I overestimate the UK political urgency of poverty reduction

[P.I. Stazzer-Newt]

With a tory government there is no urgency to poverty reduction...

Feature not bug.

And disgusting

[P.I. Stazzer-Newt]

More fun

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

Britain is on average 20% poorer than Germany, Holland, France, Canada and Australia.

https://twitter.com/thenewsagents/st...T2wbMNVD1dc-Aw

This effect is disguised so far as the wealthy are concerned by the skewed way in which wealth is distributed in Britain as compared to the other five countries. The British upper and upper middle classes are in about the same position as the upper and upper middle classes of the five nations listed.

The middle and lower classes are far worse off.

That is one of the two reasons why Britain is hit harder by higher gas prices; the other is that British electric power is largely generated by gas fired power stations.

[Henning 4148]

Just wondering - whatever happened to British North Sea oil and gas?

[P.I. Stazzer-Newt]

Used the proceeds to fund tax reductions for the very rich - '79 to '97

[John Meachen]

Used the proceeds to fund tax reductions for the very rich - '79 to '97

I would have phrased it slightly differently:the money was used to persuade a part of the electorate that they could have something for nothing.It led to electoral success and crumbling infrastructure.

[dutchpp]

Britain is on average 20% poorer than Germany, Holland, France, Canada and Australia.

https://twitter.com/thenewsagents/st...T2wbMNVD1dc-Aw

This effect is disguised so far as the wealthy are concerned by the skewed way in which wealth is distributed in Britain as compared to the other five countries. The British upper and upper middle classes are in about the same position as the upper and upper middle classes of the five nations listed.

The middle and lower classes are far worse off.

That is one of the two reasons why Britain is hit harder by higher gas prices; the other is that British electric power is largely generated by gas fired power stations.

I took a look at the official yearly UK income statistics, I must agree with your observation that the UK has a curious wealth distribution.
I would expect that to be a serious issue in policy determination of the opposition, with that in mind their Brexit point of view becomes even more incomprehensible

[Clan Gordon]

I took a look at the official yearly UK income statistics, I must agree with your observation that the UK has a curious wealth distribution.
I would expect that to be a serious issue in policy determination of the opposition, with that in mind their Brexit point of view becomes even more incomprehensible

I think you may be mixing up WEALTH vs INCOME.

It seems the UK has a less curious WEALTH distribution than does the Netherlands.

If I am not wrong, the Netherlands is one of the most unequal countries on earth (the most unequal in some reports) when it comes to WEALTH distribution - more so than the USA or UK.

[dutchpp]

I think you may be mixing up WEALTH vs INCOME.

It seems the UK has a less curious WEALTH distribution than does the Netherlands.

If I am not wrong, the Netherlands is one of the most unequal countries on earth (the most unequal in some reports) when it comes to WEALTH distribution - more so than the USA or UK.

Yes you're right I mixed up income and wealth, the risk of discussing in a secondary language.
In my head I somehow connected wealth with the Dutch word "Welvaart" which is an incorrect connection, welvaart = prosperity. I meant to use the word income.

In the Netherlands the 10% wealthiest people own 61% of the total capital which indeed is a sad ( world?) record, the result of a relatively high income tax and low wealth tax. It should change.

[Too Little Time]

I think you may be mixing up WEALTH vs INCOME.

It seems the UK has a less curious WEALTH distribution than does the Netherlands.

If I am not wrong, the Netherlands is one of the most unequal countries on earth (the most unequal in some reports) when it comes to WEALTH distribution - more so than the USA or UK.

The usual income/wealth error is in not counting all the income.

While the Netherlands is very unequal in wealth distribution, if income is accurately counted, it is also very unequal in income distribution.

[dutchpp]

^ The distribution of personal income doesn't look to bad. But you are right that usually not al the aspects of wealth are part of the defined income. Some wealthy Dutchmen have a low or even negative income
persoonlijk inkomen.jpg

[gypsie]

Fintan O'Tool catches the absurdity of how the UK is eating itself alive;

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...itain-protocol

There were – and still are – only three ways to deal with the consequences of Northern Ireland being forced, against the will of its people, out of the EU. One is a hard border on the island of Ireland, which is unacceptable. The second is what Theresa May ended up with in the infamous “backstop” – all of the UK would in effect remain in the single market and the customs union, thus avoiding the emergence of different trading regimes on the two sides of the Irish Sea. The DUP got this outcome from May. The party rewarded her by helping to bring her down and put Boris Johnson in power.
Because of this insanity, there was only one remaining possibility: a so-called border down the Irish Sea. The DUP hates it – and, from a unionist perspective, it is quite right to do so. But by helping to bring down May, it made it entirely inevitable. This, of course, it can never admit. It is left to rail against its own creation and to use the only power it now has, which is to paralyse politics in Northern Ireland.

[Peerie Maa]

To give those of you unfamiliar with Norn Iron politics this is the DUP

Edwin Poots's recent stint as leader of the Democratic Unionist Party will no doubt be remembered mostly for its brevity, but it also generated a significant amount of debate about his religious and scientific views. Of particular interest was that the leader of the North's largest political party, and potential first minister, was an outspoken Young Earth creationist.
A political party founded by Ian Paisley was always likely to become involved in debates about science and religion. Indeed, several leading DUP members have courted scientific controversy. Former environment minister Sammy Wilson tried to ban adverts for energy-reducing lightbulbs, which he described as "insidious New Labour propaganda". Nelson McCausland meanwhile used his position as culture minister to petition the Ulster Museum and Giant's Causeway to include creationist material alongside their geological explanations for rock formations.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/scie...nism-1.4631627

They are the ethnic Irish Joke.

[birlinn]

OECD forecast not too good:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-63704841

[Peerie Maa]

OECD forecast not too good:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-63704841

Subprime Mortgage Crisis, followed by 12 years of Tory Misrule.

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

Today, Sir Kier Starmer, KC, PC, MP delivered a speech on immigration which was welcomed by Nigel Farage.

The Labour Party, according to Farage, are now standing on the same agenda as the United Kingdom Independence Party stood on in 2016.?

I have been seeing Starmer Reeves and Nandy playing Grandmothers Footsteps with Labour Policy for a while now.

whenever they think you are not looking they take another step to the Right.

They are now to the Right of where John Major’s Tories were in 1996.

[Peerie Maa]

The last time that Labour won power was by pragmatically occupying the centre ground. Then Bliar and Brown screwed up.
To misquote a forum outlier, "Pragmatism is necessary" in politics.

I do agree though that pandering to the Little Englanders and closet racists is more than distasteful.

[John Meachen]

We are around two years from the time of the next likely election and nobody represents values that I am happy to vote for.There isn't a "none of the above" option on the ballot paper.Is this an unintended benefit?

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

If I were in South Norwich I would have no hesitation in voting for Clive Lewis, who is a moderate left Rejoiner.

Alas, I’m in Suffolk Coastal.

No party wants to rejoin the EU.

Its looking grim.

[Peerie Maa]

If I were in South Norwich I would have no hesitation in voting for Clive Lewis, who is a moderate left Rejoiner.

Alas, I’m in Suffolk Coastal.

No party wants to rejoin the EU.

Its looking grim.

There is too much other stuff going on that obscures the effects of BREXIT, so the voters do not realize how badly they have shot themselves in the foot.

"It is too soon to talk about it".

Any party coming out on a Rejoin platform will be writing a suicide note.