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Thread: Yet another ID this airplane thread.

  1. #1
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    Default Yet another ID this airplane thread.

    Navy. Woman in back is painting a Pa Am logo
    9EA480E4-9BA2-45A3-8384-F5AC01FA237C.jpg
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    Default Re: Yet another ID this airplane thread.

    PBM Mariner?

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    Default Re: Yet another ID this airplane thread.

    Surplus WWII PBY seaplane?
    I was born on a wooden boat that I built myself.
    Skiing is the next best thing to having wings.

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    Default Re: Yet another ID this airplane thread.

    I'm siding with Rich - I recall a couple of them at NAS North Island, CA , circa 1968 / 1969 .




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    Charter Member - - Professional Procrastinators Association of America - - putting things off since 1965 " I'll get around to it tomorrow, .... maybe "

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    Default Re: Yet another ID this airplane thread.

    Isn't that pic flipped?

    I think this is more likely -

    RIght-reading.jpg
    not sure it's a PBY (but what do I know?) could be this....
    Last edited by sp_clark; 11-03-2022 at 08:35 PM.

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    Default Re: Yet another ID this airplane thread.

    Id say, no to the PBY, the nose on those wasn't nearly so deep unless there was a version with a nose turret, which this clearly isn't. Also, although it's very hard to make out, the picture seems to show a high mounted wing rather than the Catalina's parasol wing.

    How about a Consolidated XP4Y Corregidor?

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    Default Re: Yet another ID this airplane thread.

    Only one was ever built, according to the wiki... the factory was dedicated to building the far more famous Catalina PBY.
    "Reason and facts are sacrificed to opinion and myth. Demonstrable falsehoods are circulated and recycled as fact. Narrow minded opinion refuses to be subjected to thought and analysis. Too many now subject events to a prefabricated set of interpretations, usually provided by a biased media source. The myth is more comfortable than the often difficult search for truth."







  8. #8
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    Default Re: Yet another ID this airplane thread.

    My take is that its a civilian airplane being assigned to the Navy. The woman is painted a black copy of the PAA logo and the words “under contract”.
    ITS CHAOS, BE KIND

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    Default Re: Yet another ID this airplane thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by AnalogKid View Post
    Id say, no to the PBY, the nose on those wasn't nearly so deep unless there was a version with a nose turret, which this clearly isn't. Also, although it's very hard to make out, the picture seems to show a high mounted wing rather than the Catalina's parasol wing.

    How about a Consolidated XP4Y Corregidor?

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    Default Re: Yet another ID this airplane thread.

    Martin M-130?


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    Default Re: Yet another ID this airplane thread.

    Short Sunderland?

    Picture1.jpg
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    Default Re: Yet another ID this airplane thread.

    I thought the Martin 130 was a contender until I saw one from a lower angle where it becomes obvious that the fuselage side has a pronounced step:




    Another type that Pan Am operated at the time was the Sikorsky S-43 'Mini Clipper', but again, like the PBY, that has a parasol wing and engines very close to the fuselage, not to mention prominent passenger windows, as does the larger Sikorsky S-42.



    The Boing 314 was much, much bigger
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    Default Re: Yet another ID this airplane thread.

    I think the 314 is a contender

    3FA2447C-C61A-4F87-8745-52F6267F12D8.jpeg

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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Bow View Post
    Navy. Woman in back is painting a Pa Am logo
    9EA480E4-9BA2-45A3-8384-F5AC01FA237C.jpg
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Bow View Post
    My take is that its a civilian airplane being assigned to the Navy. The woman is painted a black copy of the PAA logo and the words "under contract".

    I'm with Jim. Pan-Am aircraft impressed into government service after outbreak of hostilities. She's painting out the Pan-Am logo. And he's painting in the Army Air Corps rondel and the US flag.
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    Default Re: Yet another ID this airplane thread.

    The big painted star is interesting...

    A 314 was the first presidential flight across the Atlantic
    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/air-s...light-2901615/

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    Default Re: Yet another ID this airplane thread.

    It seems that it is indeed a PBM Mariner. The image appears in a Smithsonian magazine article with the caption:

    "In January 1943, a Martin PBM Mariner receives dual Navy and Pan American Airways markings. Pan Am operated the flying boats on regular transport runs between San Francisco and Pearl Harbor."

    Article link: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/air-s...lor-180977306/



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    Default Re: Yet another ID this airplane thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Clarkey View Post
    It seems that it is indeed a PBM Mariner. The image appears in a Smithsonian magazine article with the caption:

    "In January 1943, a Martin PBM Mariner receives dual Navy and Pan American Airways markings. Pan Am operated the flying boats on regular transport runs between San Francisco and Pearl Harbor."

    Article link: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/air-s...lor-180977306/


    No picture there. This site gives a photo ID: National Archives and Records Administration 80-G-K-1142

    https://laststandonzombieisland.com/...riner-edition/



  18. #18
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    Default Re: Yet another ID this airplane thread.

    And from the National Archives Catalog:

    https://catalog.archives.gov/id/179036478

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    Default Re: Yet another ID this airplane thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Wright View Post
    No picture there. This site gives a photo ID: National Archives and Records Administration 80-G-K-1142

    https://laststandonzombieisland.com/...riner-edition/


    The pic is there, you just have to click on an arrow to see the 2nd of 2 images.

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Yet another ID this airplane thread.

    Definately not a PBY Catalina. But what's the story with that wing root? It appears to have some sheet metal missing.

  21. #21
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    Default Re: Yet another ID this airplane thread.

    better picture:
    The bit of odd wing structure is scaffolding, and the man painting the flag is working with an airbrush on a stencil
    D14A2EB4-90C5-4A7E-92E2-F5F057FCC5E3.jpg

    edit to add: this is interesting
    "To test the PBM's layout, Martin built a ⅜ scale flying model, the Martin 162A Tadpole Clipper with a crew of one and powered by a single 120 hp (89 kW) Chevrolet engine driving two airscrews via v-belts; this was flown in December 1937.[4][5] The first genuine PBM, the XPBM-1, flew on 18 February 1939."

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_PBM_Mariner

    I'm having a hard time going airborne with a stove-bolt six and V-belts, just sayin'
    And how on earth did they get 120hp from that old babbitt bearing 216 with splash lubrication?
    And does that splash lubrication work upside down?
    (It must have been a beautiful "hot rod" version of that engine)

    https://airandspace.si.edu/collectio...m_A19530086000

    2A722B8B-DE18-4E79-BDEB-47D3731202C9.jpg
    Last edited by Canoeyawl; 11-04-2022 at 05:26 PM.

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    Default Re: Yet another ID this airplane thread.

    There's some nice wood in that roof too!
    There is nothing quite as permanent as a good temporary repair.

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    Default Re: Yet another ID this airplane thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stiletto View Post
    There's some nice wood in that roof too!
    I was looking at that too. I sometimes work in a WW2 hangar in Texas and find myself staring at the wood roof...

    IMG_2174.jpg

    IMG_5396.jpg
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  24. #24
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    Default Yet another ID this airplane thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Wright View Post
    And from the National Archives Catalog:

    https://catalog.archives.gov/id/179036478

    Here's the full-size image from NARA:

    No airbrush there. Guy painting the flag is using a full-bore finish gun, and what looks like an aluminum stencil. And if you zoom in, he's wearing brown, low quarter, brogued dress shoes. With synthetic rubber soles. She's a stylish gal -- pierced ears and pearl studs.

    If you zoom in on the zinc chromate primered bit at the bow, that seems to be a repair in progress. A whole lot of missing rivets, and sistered rivet lines.

    Last edited by Nicholas Carey; 11-05-2022 at 12:50 AM.
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    Default Re: Yet another ID this airplane thread.

    Is he wearing a Navy Chief’s hat?
    ITS CHAOS, BE KIND

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    Default Re: Yet another ID this airplane thread.

    I'd call that a "Jamb Gun"
    (It's not a bristle brush, which is what I "assumed" earlier)
    I do like the saw horse...

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canoeyawl View Post
    I'd call that a "Jamb Gun"
    (It's not a bristle brush, which is what I "assumed" earlier)
    I do like the saw horse...

    That saw horse design looks like the standard sawhorse that Foss Shipyard uses. A bit over-engineered, maybe.
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    Default Re: Yet another ID this airplane thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicholas Carey View Post
    If you zoom in on the zinc chromate primered bit at the bow, that seems to be a repair in progress. A whole lot of missing rivets, and sistered rivet lines.

    It could be a repair, but not with sistered rivets in the seam. Seams and butts often needed double or triple rows of rivets, whereas frame attachment only needed one.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nicholas Carey View Post
    That saw horse design looks like the standard sawhorse that Foss Shipyard uses. A bit over-engineered, maybe.
    Probably built to for trestles for staging, hence that deep strong cross piece halfway up the leg and enough width for two or three staging planks.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  29. #29
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    Default Re: Yet another ID this airplane thread.

    A forbifor on top?

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